All I can tell you is why I have never made one.
Phantom Army can't be buffed, thusly you will get very little use out of Fulcrum Shift. Also your Phantasm likes to stay at range so it may be difficult for him to benefit from Fulcrum Shift as well.
You will benefit teams greatly though, I just wouldn't expect stellar solo performance.
My first 50 was an ill/kin/psi. Mind you this was before IOs, but I can tell you that an ill/kin is a great team toon (not too shabby as a soloist either). The nice thing about kin is that it doesn't take any time to set up--not only that, everyone is always at the damage cap, everyone always has a full blue bar, everyone is always healed, everyone has increased recharge, and everyone is always safe because phantom army is always out taking the aggro. Kin is also very clicky so you feel as though you are really doing something instead of just sitting around. Ill rules because of deceive (my personal favorite power in CoX), PA and Spectral Terror.
Roll it and enjoy the ride.
I never desired an Ill/Kin. My favorite controller is my Fire/Kin, not because I'm a farmer, but simply because the powersets synergize so well. Imps have no ranged attacks so they are always in range of the Kin buffs and heals.
But I have to say that I've played with several friends over the years that absolutely loved their Ill/Kins. As previously mentioned they're great on teams and they can solo safely. A great goal is to work towards perma-PA. It'll require a lot of recharge but stacked Siphon Speeds help a ton, and you can also use the Alpha slot for additional recharge. It is pretty cool having a set of invulnerable pets with a taunt aura always available! Plus with high recharge you can have several Spectral Terrors out; that can be a lifesaver in a big room with multiple groups.
Kin is also considerably easier to play now that Speed Boost is an AoE. It used to be challenging to keep a large team SB'd, but it's trivial now.
Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.
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Originally Posted by Tourettes
Thinking of making an Ill/Kin-troller and wondering what the benefits are...my thoughts (Geared towards a lvl 50 character) are that I would have an invisible, high Defense character, with indestructible pets running around most of the time. Is this thinking correct?
What I'd like are descriptions of what people are able to do w/ their Ill/Kins. Is it your favorite toon? Is it solo geared, or friend geared? Thanks for the read. Also, if you feel the urge, you can post your build here. Builds that have 200 purples and cost $7Gazillion Inf will be summarily overlooked. Tourettes |
Illusion/Kinetics is a combo of two great sets . . . that have some synergy problems together. Illusion is a great primary that is strong on single target damage and control through distraction. Kinetics, of course, is wonderful for buffing the damage done by yourself and your team. One big benefit is Siphon Speed. As long as you have foes to siphon from, Siphon Speed helps the Recharge on Phantom Army -- and PA is the most important power in Illusion. By stacking Siphon Speed you can get a larger Recharge buff than Radiation's AM.
However, Illusion is really best as a ranged set. Phantom Army draw the aggro of the foes so that the foes use their attacks, including AoE attacks, on PA. As long as the Illusionist is at range, the AoE's are not a problem. Illusion does have one PB AoE control power (Flash), but everything else is ranged. Additionally, Illusion's Tier 9 pet, Phantasm, loves to knockback any foes who get near "the master." This can be a problem in melee, but works great from range.
Kinetics, on the other hand, pushes you into melee to receive the benefits of Transfusion, Transference and Fulcrum Shift. Going into melee exposes you to the AoE attacks of the foes and makes Phantasm a constant source of frustration -- just at you choose a nearby foe for Transfusion or Transference, Phanty sends that foe flying back just as you hit the powers so that the buff completely misses you. Some Ill/Kins simply don't use Phantasm most of the time due to this problem. Also, PA cannot be buffed by anything other than enhancements in the power itself, so they will miss out on your great Damage buffs from Siphon Power and Fulcrum Shift, and the other great buffs from Speed Boost and ID. Phantasm can benefit from these buffs . . . but getting Phanty close enough to get Fulcrum Shift can be a huge problem when Phanty keeps knocking foes back.
Other secondaries have Resistance and/or Defense debuffs to help PA do more damage or hit more often. Kinetics lacks these important debuffs that can be found in Rad, TA, Cold, Time, Thermal, and even Sonic and Poison.
Still, many folks love the combo of Illusion and Kinetics. Any Illusion Controller can solo decently and can contribute to teams. Any well-played */Kinetics character will provide a huge benefit to teams. In my opinion, Illusion works best with Rad, TA, Storm, Cold and Time. Illusion/Emp is good if you want a battlefield healer, but Emp also lacks the debuffs. Kinetics works best with primaries that work best in or near melee like Fire, Ice, Elec, Plant. Fire and Plant in particular are good due to a lot of AoE damage which, when buffed by Fulcrum Shift, become huge.
(I have an Ill/Kin, but he is kind of stalled because I generally grab one of my other Illusion controllers or one of my other */Kinetics controllers when I want to play those sets. I have Ill/Rad, Ill/Storm, Ill/TA and Ill/Cold, Plant/Kin all at 50, with my Fire/Kin at 45.)
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Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
It's currently my favorite build, but that's partially because I also really like the theme of the character it's on. I wanted a carnie/harlequin character and thought Ill/Kin really fit it.
Play-wise, it's pretty fun to me, but I like strange builds and don't really optimize too heavily. (Though I will be shooting for perma PA.)
Really, if you're curious about it -- roll one and run through a few DFB trials. You'll get an idea of how it handles.
An Ill/Kin troller will be powerful, you can't have that many good powers in you're build and not be good, but you're going to be good despite the combo, not because of it. As mentioned above, phantom army, the key most important power of illusion gets no benefit from the buffs of kinetics(other than better recharge speed on the power itself natch), and illusion really prefers to be at a range. Not just because being at a ranged is safely(like for a set like earth or gravity), but because the pet AI is a lot more logical and predictable at a range which actually makes illusions control much more predictable.
Naturally kinetics enphasis on melee and buffs runs straight against illusions focuses. If you want to play both sets together, go ahead, you'll have fun, and be strong, but I prefer my sets to support one another.
A kinda side example, I'm playing an Illusion/Time right now, and I actuallt just respecced out of Time's Juncture, which by all accounts is an amazing power, because I spent so little time in melee that having combat jumping for a little extra defense and to take a Luck of the Gambler +recharge was a better option. Luckily, time only has one real power that needs you to be in melee, and it's not essential to the set, as good as it is, though it is painful that the two powers illusion wants most are the last two powers the set offers.
I have a level 50 ill/kin/psi that I parked when they took away the ability to speed buff the Phantasm; it was a small thing, but it did end up making a perceptible difference, and I was ready to move on to something else anyway.
It was a fraternity initiation of a 'toon, anyway, up to 18, but after that what you get out of any illusion build, not even counting your secondary, is almost complete invulnerability to anything but AoEs and player-targeted ambushes. The taunt magnitude on Phantom Army is amazingly useful. So, even though I didn't team with it all that much, I can see that being a big deal if you've got perma-PA: you're a perfectly good off-tank with some pretty impressive team buffs. Your buffs are only 60% as strong as they would be on a kin defender, but you're easier to keep alive.
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I think one of the reasons Ill/Rad is popular because it makes the early levels easier. Normally an illusion control solves encounters with spectral wounds, blind, and decieve at low levels, and while those are all good powers, they don't show off what the set can do. Accelerated Metabolism and Radiation Infection give illusion controllers huge boosts early game, and honest they get most their key powers by the early 20's.
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Originally Posted by InfamousBrad
IIt was a fraternity initiation of a 'toon, anyway, up to 18, but after that what you get out of any illusion build, not even counting your secondary,
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I mapped out my Ill/Time toon and I have to say he will be sooo FUN! Omg I can't wait!
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It is fun, but it's slow going. The two powers that work best with illusion don't come till level 35 and 38, and the power that doesn't play with with illusion at all is one of the earliest powers in the set. Mine didn't start feeling strong till the 20's when distortion field and time stop and a 6-slotted PA came in.
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Originally Posted by Negate
I mapped out my Ill/Time toon and I have to say he will be sooo FUN! Omg I can't wait!
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I'm enjoying the heck out of mine! About to lvl 24 now.
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Originally Posted by Negate
I mapped out my Ill/Time toon and I have to say he will be sooo FUN! Omg I can't wait!
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@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff
I'm trying to hang in there until I get PA. He's now lvl 12! Thanks to the Sewer Trial lol. I think you two are right I am going to enjoy this toon. I love the Illusion Control set anyway even though I barely play my Ill/Kin these days.
My very first toon and still one of my favourites, years later. Definitely team friendly and can solo +2x8 mobs. My usual course of solo action is to confuse the boss of the mob, send in PA then rush in, FS off boss and Judgement the lot... at lower levels, play is more 'Master Mind'-ish, especially with the added pet (who IS buff-able).
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.95
http://www.cohplanner.com/
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Gem Illusionista: Level 50 Mutation Controller
Primary Power Set: Illusion Control
Secondary Power Set: Kinetics
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Teleportation
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Blind -- BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold:30(A), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg:30(3), BasGaze-Acc/Hold:30(3), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold:30(5)
Level 1: Transfusion -- Nictus-Heal:50(A), Nictus-Heal/HP/Regen/Rchg:50(5), Nictus-Acc/Heal:50(7), Nictus-Acc/EndRdx/Heal/HP/Regen:50(7), Nictus-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg:50(9), Nictus-%Dam:50(9)
Level 2: Siphon Power -- Acc-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(46)
Level 4: Deceive -- CoPers-Conf%:50(A), CoPers-Conf:50(11), CoPers-Conf/Rchg:50(11), CoPers-Acc/Conf/Rchg:50(17), CoPers-Acc/Rchg:50(19)
Level 6: Hover -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), Flight-I:50(37)
Level 8: Fly -- Flight-I:50(A)
Level 10: Siphon Speed -- Acc-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(43)
Level 12: Group Invisibility -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), RedFtn-Def:50(13), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx:50(13), RedFtn-Def/Rchg:50(15), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(15), RedFtn-EndRdx:50(17)
Level 14: Recall Friend -- Range-I:50(A)
Level 16: Increase Density -- ImpSkn-Status:30(A)
Level 18: Phantom Army -- ExRmnt-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg:50(A), ExRmnt-Acc/Rchg:50(19), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(27), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg:50(27), S'bndAl-Build%:50(29), S'bndAl-Dmg:50(29)
Level 20: Speed Boost -- Efficacy-EndMod:50(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg:50(21), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg:50(21), Efficacy-Acc/Rchg:50(23), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc:50(23), Efficacy-EndMod/EndRdx:50(25)
Level 22: Hasten -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(25)
Level 24: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A)
Level 26: Spectral Terror -- Abys-Acc/Fear/Rchg:50(A), Abys-Acc/Rchg:50(31), Abys-Acc/EndRdx:50(31), Abys-Fear/Rng:50(31), Abys-Dam%:50(34)
Level 28: Tactics -- Rec'dRet-Pcptn:20(A)
Level 30: Assault -- EndRdx-I:50(A)
Level 32: Phantasm -- ExRmnt-+Res(Pets):50(A), ExRmnt-Dmg/EndRdx:50(33), ExRmnt-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg:50(33), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg:50(33), EdctM'r-PetDef:30(34), SvgnRt-PetResDam:50(34)
Level 35: Transference -- Efficacy-EndMod:50(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg:50(36), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg:50(36), Efficacy-Acc/Rchg:50(36), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc:50(37), Efficacy-EndMod/EndRdx:50(37)
Level 38: Fulcrum Shift -- Acc-I:50(A), Acc-I:50(39), RechRdx-I:50(39), EndRdx-I:50(39), RechRdx-I:50(40)
Level 41: Scorpion Shield -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), RedFtn-Def:50(42), RedFtn-EndRdx:50(42), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx:50(42), RedFtn-Def/Rchg:50(43), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(43)
Level 44: Poisonous Ray -- Decim-Acc/Dmg:40(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx:40(45), Decim-Dmg/Rchg:40(45), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg:40(45), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:40(46), Achilles-ResDeb%:20(46)
Level 47: Summon Tarantula -- ExRmnt-Acc/Rchg:50(A), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(48), ExRmnt-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg:50(48), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg:50(48), S'bndAl-Dmg/Rchg:50(50), Achilles-ResDeb%:20(50)
Level 49: Vengeance -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+:50(50)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+:40(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%:50(A), P'Shift-EndMod:50(40), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc:50(40)
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Set Bonus Totals:
- 22% DamageBuff(Smashing)
- 22% DamageBuff(Lethal)
- 22% DamageBuff(Fire)
- 22% DamageBuff(Cold)
- 22% DamageBuff(Energy)
- 22% DamageBuff(Negative)
- 22% DamageBuff(Toxic)
- 22% DamageBuff(Psionic)
- 5% Defense
- 2.5% Defense(Energy)
- 2.5% Defense(Negative)
- 1.25% Defense(Ranged)
- 4.5% Max End
- 2.75% Enhancement(Terrorized)
- 4% Enhancement(Confused)
- 106.3% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
- 18% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 5% Enhancement(Heal)
- 5% FlySpeed
- 91.56 HP (9%) HitPoints
- 5% JumpHeight
- 5% JumpSpeed
- MezResist(Confused) 15%
- MezResist(Held) 15%
- MezResist(Immobilize) 22.15%
- MezResist(Sleep) 15%
- MezResist(Stun) 15%
- MezResist(Terrorized) 15%
- 20% Perception
- 9% (0.15 End/sec) Recovery
- 36% (1.53 HP/sec) Regeneration
- 20% Resistance(Smashing)
- 20% Resistance(Lethal)
- 22.52% Resistance(Fire)
- 22.52% Resistance(Cold)
- 20% Resistance(Energy)
- 23.75% Resistance(Negative)
- 20% Resistance(Toxic)
- 20% Resistance(Psionic)
- 5% RunSpeed
Code:
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@The Gem on Freedumb, Jaded Channel
xXJadedXx
Blame the Healers
Blame Jaded PvP
Have an ill/kin which was my first 50 as well, been planning on IOing him out and such so might have to use a few things from that build.
traditional main reason: perma-PA. (which these days is achievable w/out kin, so not that motivating).
Thinking of making an Ill/Kin-troller and wondering what the benefits are...my thoughts (Geared towards a lvl 50 character) are that I would have an invisible, high Defense character, with indestructible pets running around most of the time. Is this thinking correct?
What I'd like are descriptions of what people are able to do w/ their Ill/Kins. Is it your favorite toon? Is it solo geared, or friend geared?
Thanks for the read.
Also, if you feel the urge, you can post your build here. Builds that have 200 purples and cost $7Gazillion Inf will be summarily overlooked.
Tourettes
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