JohnRobey

Well, at minimum, THANK YOU, Rubberlad, since merely the title of this thread caught my attention and made me laugh!!!!! ((God's teeth, after logging out of game, i've been up all night reading forums and networking with sg mate who long along transformed from fellow players to friends.))

I think the points about Slander and irrefutable proof are valid; however, I think your idea is not only creative but equally valid regarding negotiating with a bad upper management team. I suggest (strongly) that you post this idea to Titan Network/TonyV and Mr W, since while there is fan-ac (fan activity) there like here, Titan (imo) is getting more thoughtful posts from players with backgrounds ranging from Info Tech to Fair Use Laws to business/finance people analysing NCSoft and ways to approach Corporate/negotiate to Media contacts and Community Action to a forum dedicated to generating capital and entrepreneurial investment/purchase of the IP. (And apologies to any who feel I'm dissing the official forums; it's simply that I've personally seen more ser-con (serious/constructive) discussions on Titan Network and it's easier to find them, than I find on the forums here, though both have merit and there's stuff here on the official forums I love that exists nowhere else.)

The entire CoH Community wants to restore Paragon Studios and save City of Heroes; the question is How Best To Do This? And closely related to this, is How Best Do We As A Community Co-ordinate Our Activities To Achieve This?

Meanwhile, while off-topic, I always find this vid uplifting and inspiring: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMrN3Rh55uM Game On! by the Guild

I like (most) of what you have to say here, Capa Devans, and understand and empathize even with those things you said that I don't completely agree with (or at least would have said in a completely different way.) Here's a condensed version (below) of what I'm writing to my SGmates on guildportal (3 very active ranking SGs prior to the shutdown notice on 3 different servers that ran events daily.)

While there's some lovely stuff worth reading on the official forums, I find the most seriously constructive stuff on Titan Network. On both forums, players were feeling sad, crushed and devastated all over again, taking today's PR announcement to mean It's All Over and that attempts to save City of Heroes have failed. Among others, Mercedes Lackey wrote candidly on Titan today (as a CoH fan) how she felt, until her husband Larry Dixon sent her his interpretation (which she then shared with the Community on Titan and which I agree with; link: http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.....html#msg57520

Guys, it's not over!! We may not win, but this PR move has ultimately rekindled hope. NCSoft responded today - not as we would have liked but they responded. We need to maintain and even double/re-double our efforts. At minimum, keeping player numbers up is helpful to showing NCSoft and the rest of the industry just what a good product and loyal fan base is here in City of Heroes, potentially gives the dev team some leverage (as well as personal encouragement), and dammit the Game is still fun, and the players are now nicer than ever! Yes, I know it hurts to love this so much and think of it all going away. There have been times when I haven't played CoH for exactly those reasons, and I respect that and am NOT urging you to play CoH when feeling that way. There are times when I'm the only player (or close to it) on a number of global chat channels; however, Justice United, Victory Badges, VIP (I dunno VIP's home server, if any) and others remain about as active as before, except that players are as I said being nicer to one another than ever, teaming up to help each other more than ever, etc.

I may get in trouble with some of you for using a Pet analogy; however, I feel losing CoH is very much like losing a beloved pet. Yes, one did not expect the pet to live forever and yet the grief at losing a beloved family pet is real. But in this case the pet ain't dead yet. I feel rather like a kid who for 3-1/2 years got to keep and enjoy a pet, only to be told suddenly and with no warning, that the pet is gonna be put to sleep in 2 months, and for reasons not fully nor adequately explained. Yes, I felt genuine sorrow about this (and may again) but right now I'm back to anger, back to fighting to keep Fluffy, and gonna spend all the time I can with Fluffy until the end. (See my note about NOT playing if it causes pain or sorrow; nor is this a guilt-trip but my venting Rant about how I feel about this.) And at the moment, TonyV and Titan looks like the best shot at somehow saving and keeping Fluffy, where there is/was a thread for entrepreuners to raise capital to buy the IP, since presumably this is "Just Business" for NCSoft as well as other discussions related to Community action. Please note, I'm not urging anyone to a specific course of action (I haven't extracted any of my characters, for instance) other than to Keep Up The Fight/Fan Action(s) to Save CoH in whatever (legal, sane) way is appropriate for each of us.

Additionally, I understand there's a TwitchTV podcast scheduled for later today (Wednesday) from the development team, and Melissa "War Wtich" Bianco told me personally during the Player Rally on Virtue (where there is still an AP33 and an ongoing /em holdtorch vigil) that she and the other devs are watching what we the Community do and say very closely (or were.) Heck, the devs are probably bound by contractual agreements with NCSoft that do not apply to us.

Here's hoping until the light go out--and even then, in this venue, Resurrection is a real possibility (there's a discussion thread on killed MMOs that were later brought back.) Keep Hope, Keep Active and if you can, Keep Positive. But make no mistake, this is a fan/RL business "battle." The fans of Joss Whedon's FIREFLY series were deprived of many seasons of enjoyment, but we got the film "Serenity." Like then, I don't want just "Serenity" (better than nothing by a whole lot, imo) but want the entire series. I encourage us each to play smart when it comes to what we're saying to NCSoft.

Yes, I know NCSoft has burned bridges with a lot of us, and yes, I know a lot of what's being said here is perfectly natural venting as a reaction to sudden loss and grief, but do please think before posting if what you're saying is gonna encourage NCSoft to "play ball" and negotiate such that we get to restore Paragon Studios (our beloved Devs) and keep City of Heroes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMrN3Rh55uM

This is my second reply to this thread, wherein I'm quoting what was said and my reply on Titan Network forums.

[quote author=chasearcanum
NCSoft,

We wanted to let you know that your message has been heard and your concerns have been taken into serious considertion. We appreciate your response and acknowledgement of our emails, notes and packages we've sent in support of the game. Closing Paragon Studios and shutting down City of Heroes should not have been easy. Bad decisions never should be, and this was a monumentally bad decision. Bad for your creative teams, who now operate under the uncertainty of an overseer that doesn't seem rational or consistent. Bad for your shareholders, who have been deprived a positive revenue source, both current and future. Bad for your players, who have entrusted you with the custodianship of the social network. Bad for your reputation, which continues to be tarnished by your demonstrated lack of the consistent and stable behavior a successful service provider must offer. Bad for the individual players who have brought our own creations to life within this online world. You have been given options that would dissolve your relationship with City of Heroes and Paragon Studios in a way that preserves that community, reassembles as much of the development team as possible, leaves our creative contributions intact, and possibly even provides compensation for your shareholders. You have continued to make bad decisions by rejecting those options.

You say your options are exhausted.

We have not exhausted all our options. We will provide opportunities to save yourselves from your own folly. We will celebrate the work of the development studio you so abruptly dissolved. We will demonstrate the value and strength of the community you are working to destroy. Should NCSoft come around and find an amicable resolution, we will recognize the merits of your actions. Should you not, we will warn everyone we know everywhere we go of the hazards of placing any trust in NCSoft, protecting others as best we can.

We are heroes. This is what we do.

(at least, this is what I was going to post.... not sure if I should use TonyV's signature line.)
[/quote]

I very much like what you said in your post, ChaseArcanum. While NCSoft may be all business, so are we!! And our motivation is not maximizing our portfolios or profits but the love all enthusiasts have for their chosen hobby. (Note, one definition of "hobby" is "obsession".) I imagine NCSoft did NOT anticipate this reaction to their decision to "sunset" City of Heroes, and callously laying off the Paragon Studios development team late Friday afternoon of Labor Day Weekend (U.S.) with no warning probably made sense to bean-counters (accountants) with no vision or thought to the harm NCSoft is doing to its reputation as a MMO publisher, nor what impact this decision and how they handle the on-going situation may make to their future financial prospects in this industry.

As others have pointed out, NCSoft upper managment did NOT work with Paragon Studios; there was no hint that anything was amiss, or that NCSoft needed more profit from CoH (if in fact that's the issue). Nor were steps taken or even explored that I know of to work with the CoH Community to make CoH a product still considered viable by NCSoft. As we all know, new Powersets and other market items were released less than 10 days prior to the shutdown notice. Maybe I'm naive, but this seems a very strange way to run a business, one where all the hype was our eager anticipation of Issue 24. I've worked for and gotten laid off from companies that went out of business, but always we employees knew/were told by management that things weren't looking good, and everyone worked harder to save our jobs and the business. Steps could have been taken. Certainly the dev team should have been in the loop that their jobs were on the line. NCSoft and the Studio could/should have explored via Community Relations ways to reach NCSoft's goals. But no one with enough clout at NCSoft did this. I hope NCSoft gets a clue, quickly, that stonewalling us with silence is counter-productive since it leads only to speculation (some quite unflattering) in how this business decision was reached. They also should clue in that their recent actions are opposite to and fly in the face of their stated Core Values: http://global.ncsoft.com/global/abou...siongoals.aspx Rather than promoting Happiness (or even mere Enjoyment) what NCSoft did and HOW they did this has provoked Grief reactions ranging from sorrow to anger, and turned the publisher into the biggest Arch-Villain ever to menace Paragon City. Joy-killers! Sorrow-bringers! are epithets NCSoft is earning by its actions. Yet, they still have a chance to turn this around and salvage this debacle, if only they have the wisdom to do so, and demonstrate with integrity the values they profess.

Pessimistically, I expect NCSoft to revert to more silent stonewalling, especially now when today's PR tactic has backfired and encourages us to continue our efforts to save City of Heroes. Stonewalling would be a mistake typical of Top-down management. Despite the fact that we fans are remain upset, NCSoft still has a Golden Opportunity to reach out to us, to work with us, to craft a Win-Win scenario so that we CoH enthusiasts can continue what we love in a way that helps NCSoft reach corporate objectives.

I can imagine articles published months from now about this our "darkest hour", about the creative and constructive Community response (in addition to our fan outrage and unhappiness), and how NCSoft rose to the challenge courageously and worked WITH the Community of fans (and previously loyal customers!) If NCSoft has the vision and foresight to do this, I can imagine them coming out better than ever, re-establishing trust, and adding a layer of patina rather than deeper tarnish to their corporation.

Meanwhile, the pessimist in me believes they'll "raise the drawbridge" and retreat further into their corporate castle of isolation. That said, I plan to work with TonyV, Mr W and others for figuratively storming the castle walls. I was rather impressed with the CNN iReporting and Cresting Twitter Trends, as well as other suggestions on the forums--but then, I may be easily impressed. ;-)

That may well be true, Stars Man, but I'm hoping the Public Relations angle might have some lingering value to NCSoft, even if the relative profitability of the MMO and stable player-base doesn't.

Kudos to GM_Lloyd!!! I also got great assistance from GM_Xianique (sp?) and for that matter all the support staff. I also had really helpful assistance from NCSoft Technical Support. NCSoft does need to be credited for hiring the right people for customer support. THANK YOU NCSoft game staff!!!

Here's hoping we find a way to save City of Heroes MMORPG!

While plenty of people have stopped playing, many of us still do. It seems the longer the player was invested in playing the more disappointing and painful the player finds it to play CoH since the "sunsetting" announcement, which I understand. Virtually all of the seven to eight year veteran players of CoH I know would be back in a heartbeat if it were announced CoH were to continuem but I can appreciate their reasons for not playing (though they all showed up to take part in the Player Rally in Atlas Park.)

Unlike some, I do not hate NCSoft, even as I hate their business decision to kill CoH. What I do hate is the way they summarily fired Paragon Studios late afternoon the Friday of Labor Day weekend. (I heard they gave the dev team a job fair, so I guess that's something.) So, while I hurt for us, I also hurt for the Dev team who had their plans and dreams dashed as thoroughly as any of ours for our characters.

One of my more MMO-savvy friends works for CURSE but after raving to me for two weeks about how good GW2 is, lol, she tells me last night that in less than 2 months she's already bored with it, citing it still has beautiful graphics, friendly interface, but says it's boring, even compared to GW1.

So, while I don't hate NCSoft, I'll certainly be leery of them as an MMO publisher in the future. Frankly, I remain surprised at just how painful I and others have found prospect of CoH ending that I may give up MMO gaming altogether - though the adage of Never say Never applies.

Well, enough of scanning the forums looking for good news, and posting my commiserations. Time to log in and PLAY!!!

Yes, you're the only one not upset! ;p

I think it's cool that the players of Champions Online (as well as other MMORPGs) are sympathizing with us, some even joining in community actions to save CoH. Some of my formerly active SGmates have already joined CO (as being closest to the CoH experience) though they've already warned us (on our guildportal sg webpage) that the animations and characters look far more "cartoony" than the level of realistic animation we find in CoH. So, I say, Thank You, CO! Thank you all MMORPGamers working to help save CoH. Personally, I'm not willing to try CO or any other MMO until CoH is completely shut down and the Paragon Studios development team announces they're throwing in the towel and that CoH is permanently ended with no hope of rebooting. So Thank you, CO; I may give you a try. Or, I may feel so bummed about this, that I switch over entirely to console games like Skyrim. I don't know just yet how I'll feel. Until then, I'm still hoping CoH will survive (probably better than ever if community/dev action saves it).

It was fun to play right from the start! I started playing under Issue 15 on an old gaming buddy's account when he was a work (after we designed a couple of characters together and he showed me how to play.) One week later, I was certain I wanted my own account and was a subscriber ever since. Friends had shown me various MMORPGs before (UO, EQ, WoW) but while pretty to look at, none grabbed me. After subscribing to CoH, I tried a few other MMOs just to compare and/or because rl friends were playing (e.g. F2P LOTRO) but thus far prefer CoH by a LOT to any other MMO I've tried.

As a solo console game, I thought CoH rocked! But add to that all the friends I've made in game, some now RL friends, how helpful, friendly and generous other players were to me right from the beginning, and seeing how incredible this Community is, I'll always love City of Heroes, my characters, the city zones, the power animations and costumes, and many many story lines. That an MMO could actually provide "peak" gaming experiences to rival some of my best gaming experiences in tabletop and LARP gaming is a testament to the CoH Community and Paragon Studios development team.

What will I do when City of Heroes is saved?! Other than be delighted????

I'd continue to play some everyday, but many of the grieving, hurt multi-year veterans who presently find CoH too painful to play would more or less instantly return (some already have) and I'd once more be balancing my time between two very active SGs on different servers; I'd play my 50s and my low-level alts; I'd buy the Nature Affinity powerset from the Paragon Market and start that NA toon I have built on Mids; I'd finally get around to respecing a couple of old 50's still without Issue 19 Inherent Fitness (LOL); I'd continue happily to play all the content we presently have as well as enjoying Issues 24 and beyond, enjoying everything the development team had planned and expect Matt "Positron" Miller to revise, modify and implement the plans revealed in the Loregasm thread. While I might buy an account-wide 4th Enhancement tray, at minimum I'd let my VIP subscription earn me the points to buy Retro Sci-Fi, CoT, Barbarian and other costume pieces. I'd finally start that Titan Weapons toons (LOL, I have the powerset but never got around to making the alt), and long story short: the show would go on! Oh! and I'd finally get aound to finishing outfitting a couple of SG bases.

Thank you for putting all this together in one thread.

Thanks for the update! Hoping you guys are all doing well.

Thank you all again for giving us insight into your plans, the history, the lore, the what could have been - and what we all hope still might be! Thank you for the amazing adventures and world that's City of Heroes/Villains. I'll be playing until I no longer can and shall continue to hope until the last for a reprieve.

Since I pre-paid a 12 month subscription again this year at the end of July 2012 and NCSoft plans to shut down our MMO servers on Nov. 30th, I plan to ask NCSoft for a pro-rated return of what I spent in US dollars NOT credit towards another NCSoft product - unless it happens to be City of Heroes 2 as produced by Paragon Studios. Sorry, NCSoft but none of your other products are things I want; only City of Heroes!

Awesome! I'm glad to see all this! Like everyone, hoping it turns the tide and saves the day, the Studio and our beloved City of Heroes!

All of this is AWESOME!!! We were at SIX instances of Atlas Park a few minutes ago when I logged for lunch.

Woot! We are already up to SIX instances of Atlas Park on Virtue. and yes, for anyone who can't get or make a character for whatever reason on Virtue, you CAN create a second Free to Play account so as to make a Virtue toon for the Rally and the special Come as a RL Dev CC.

Yes! I'd buy a stand alone version of CoH. I liked CoH well enough to play solo, though team-ups and the community here is what really made it rock for me!

Thank you! This would make an awesome TF or SSA. Looking forward to the day when City of Heroes is safe and secure and the fine development team at Paragon Studios are all back on the job, full-time, bringing us Issue 24 and all the other nifty things you had planned.

I'll be there but I know others who have work or other prior engagements (one a 25th wedding anniversary party) but otherwise will be there in spirit. Even veteran players, some still so bummed they can't bear to log in, are planning to attend, and while I was on Virtue, making sure my Player Rally toon was ready to go, the players on Virtue are planning on Costume Contests and non-stop partying after the event.

Thanks for everything you are doing, Samuraiko! I've another idea for a video, one using Billy Joel's "We Didn't Start the Fire" and flashing thru toons, action scenes and CoH development. Just a thought, as well as a filk version of "Favorite Things" from Rogers&Hammerstein's "Sound of Music." I imagine whatever you think of, however, will be 1million times cooler than these ideas. Cya Saturday, 9/8, at 5 ET if not before at the Player Rally on Virtue, Atlas Park.

Dear Ryan 'Viridian' Greene,
Thank you and everyone at Paragon Studios for City of Heroes! Not only the people we know but those we don't know, like QA. I'm glad to see all of us working together to keep this going! The Awesome factor in this MMO community has really come out during this crisis. I am hoping that Paragon Studios and CoH will come thru better than ever after this. Just like when we team and league it up in-game, I'm hopeful that with the combined efforts of the community and dev team(s) and Titan Network et al we'll be able to proceed with Issue 24 and beyond to realize the plans and dreams of the development team for City of Heroes. Thanks again for everything!
John

Good Idea about announcing the Unity Rally on Virtue at 5 ESt, Sept 8th on SG Messages of the Day. It will be even more effective if all global Chat Channel moderators announce this also on all the chat channels.

Have you seen yet TonyV's announcement and thread about a Player Unity Summit on Virtue this Saturday, Sept 8th, 5 EST?

Re: video ideas, I already like what you've proposed. While the In Memoriam video will necessarily be sad, I'm hopeful at least one of your final productions won't be, and hope to celebrate both the heroism and the happy times!

While it would be great if Felicia Day and The Guild happened to write and another music video in time for this - 'cause your Avatar - CoH Style is still my fave of any MMO youtube video which includes those done by Mad Cow - for some reason Beethoven's 5th Symphony playing with images of heroes fighting Great Monsters in Atlas Park keeps going thru my minds. Praetoria would also make a nice setting, as well as including redside areas like the Golden Giza. A few seconds of a co-op league in a Rikti Mothership Raid and/or Cimerora would be nice. Gosh, there's so much good stuff! I trust in your artistry. Your videos just blow me away! Even non-MMO/non-gamer friends have been impressed.