Innigo

I feel the scrapper is unique in having no defined role within a team. Everyone knows what everyone else's job is but no one's eally sure where the scrapper fits it, or what "scrapping" actually is.
He is the wild card, the jack-of-all-trades, the one-size-fits-all and so on and so forth.

I'm not going to my claim my playstyle is the definition of scrapping but it's how I interprete the word. Scrapping imho means plugging the holes. Reinforcing the tankers, intercepting the mobs racing for the blaster after he looses off an AoE, taking out the high risk mobs (sappers, quantums etc) and covering the rear if everything goes pear-shaped.

I've noticed scrappers have a bit of a bad reputation and I think that may stem from the difficulty in being a "good" scrapper and not thinking of yourself as a hard-hitting tank.

Create the telepad room with only one doorway and then put both telepads up against the far wall. All four beacons can be place on the wall adjacent to the telepads.

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By playing the PvE game of course! So by that very same calculation, there *must* be at least as many, if not more, Stalkers playing PvE as there were/are playing PvP!

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Go STRAIGHT to the bottom of the class for this shameless falsehood. The number or proportion of stalkers (or any other AT) in the PvE environment have little or no bearing on the number or proportion in the PvP environment.

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My favoured for katana is Golden Dragonfly, Soaring Dragon. Even if they survive it, they're too busy getting back up to survive the follow-ups.

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What he said. The problem with sapppers comes from when you can't see them.

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sounds like a scrapper is holding the agrro, if your holding aggro on 8 man missions , where the tank or even a controller.

once you get above 4 men in team you really need to give a bit of thought to what your recruiting , get that bit wrong and the problems soon appear.

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Team composition is far less important than teamwork. For most of the last 40 odd lvls I've played alongside a tank and when see goes down I move into the "tank" role. Dull pain and IH get spooled up and I'll try and rotate through the targets to pull as much agro as possible and pull it away from the downed tank to allow her to rez or be rezzed. Not ideal as scrappers dont hold agro well but it works as a stopgap solution.
Depending on the foe, sometimes if things have gone really wrong and if I have enough of the right insps I can hold the fort long enough for the rest of the team to rez and sort itself out and then join me for the remainder of the fight.
Its in those moments that regen scrappers appear overpowered.

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@Kraver - The Leadership pool isn't worth it for Scrappers, the bonus is minimal, 5% I think. As for Defenders, I think it's 20%. Both unenhanced. Then again, you can't enhance the damage of Assault.

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Yeah, but slotted that's 10%. Can't remember which is the defense bonus but surely that 10% is worth considering if you've got nothing else in mind. I'm thinking of my toons lvl49 power. I;ve got nothing in mind and would like even a minimal boost in defence.

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Let me guess, 8-man teams set on invincible?

I need IH once a mission.

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I don't use it soloing on invincible, and even on eight man teams set to invincible it only gets used for specific battles or when things go wrong and I'm screaming at the surviving members of the team to run whilst I try and hold back the hordes. More often than not, no one listens and I end up running out myself with the rest of the team giving the floor a close examination

Far from being the primary power of regens I see it as the emergency-backup-when-all-else-fails-last-ditch-attempt power to be used after reconstruction and dull pain and even then if you're pulling agro from more than a couple of heavy hitters it's going to get overridden.

Personally, I think it's fine the way it is, a nice, but not foolproof insurance policy.

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If stalkers were not here everyone would be on the "nerf controllers" bandwagon, it seems a lot of people just dont like getting beat

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Quite right as it's only possible to complain about one thing at a time on these boards.

No wait, that's not right.

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i have noticed u keep mentioning pvp zones are never that busy, did u bother to attend the big pvp event in sirens last night, they needed to make 3 sirens calls to cope with the number of players, now that would mean the zone was busy right??

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Yes I "bothered" to be there. What point are you trying to make? That the zone is busy during organised events?

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Why pray tell are u constantly posting on this thread then? If u couldnt care less and you dont want stalkers nerfed, then what DO you want?

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How MANY times do I have to post the same thing?!? I've explained it, IN DETAIL, several times. If you can't be bothered to read them, although you feel qualified to offer critique on my posts, then continue in ignorance. I don't care.

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Stalkers are putting me off PvP, nothing should be able to 1 shot me! and i'm slamming my bedroom door on the way in!!.....whinge whinge whinge"

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Ah, the same old tired accusation. It's like a broken record droning forever on. The thing so many people seem so keen to forget is these whingers are also paying customers.

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Or as you have siad you don't want the stalker to be nerfed... How, pray tell, can they change the stalker in line with your overall theme and not nerf it?
Care to answer?

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I have, several times.
The point is to not change ANYONE but to allow toons to buff, using temp powers, the holes in their build. We keep hearing about how you need a time with this and that. And we see it go quiet when I ask "what if there's no one suitable on". Siren's is hardly a bustling concourse of heroes, so what do you do? Should I just leave and wait for some ppl with the right powers to come on?
OR do the devs offer some useful temp powers? Ones a little less generic?
I suggested a shield that stops critical hits, and only available to squishies. The AS to death would still be possible but only if the target is injured first. I don't agree than an AS should NEVER kill.
So there you have it, a little imagination and you could probably come up with a slew of temp powers to ensure that any team, regardless of composition could buff itself to put up a good fight with a team, regardless of THEIR composition.

I posted elsewhere that PvP could be really dull if you have "incompatable" ATs facing off to each other. Imagine, 2 scrappers and a tank facing 2 stalkers - no temp powers for the heroes since the villains control the zone (for the sake of this example).
So, not a perception power or hold between us. We can't see them coming and we can't stop them getting away. (Yes I realise yellow insps are useful but I have to go to IP to get insps so I have to be a little sparing with them).
The IR googles and web grenades DO make things better, considerably better, but they don't go far enough.
Every travel power *should* be represented by a temp power. I don't know why SS was excluded.
As I've said MANY times, most of the issues raised will slip into the ether is and when Siren's becomes busy, but until then I believe better temp powers are a good way of compensating.

And not a nerf in sight.

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Bored with this thread and Innigo...

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SO bored you were compelled to post.

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You want everyone to have the same chance? But you want Stalkers chnaged so they have less of a chance?

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Clearly you missed the post where I said I didn't want ANYONE nerfed. That, in case you were wondering, includes stalkers.

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The lag was horrific tonight though, i enjoyed myself although it was hard to target and click powers. If anything spoilt it its that.

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The lag was bad, too bad for me to go anywhere near the villains base, but had some EPIC battle further out. Got my ar5e handed to me countless times but only after a valient effort, and for me, that's what PvP is all about

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how do you go from a zone with tumbleweeds rolling past to a thriving zone where there's usually a team with the right skillset about?

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You put Bridger and Jawbreaker in the zone

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LOL, well said

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Quick recovery and Stamina do it quite sharply though...

I've never been in a position where I've needed to res what an Awaken can't give me, as a Regen.

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But not THAT sharply. Certainly not after ED. Prior to the universal nerf I might have agreed with you, I generated End faster than I could spend it - not any more.
Doesn't matter, Revive is better than an awaken, how much better is obviously up for debate.
Nevertheless, I stick by my sentiment, MoG is not a regen power and therefor refuse to touch. That does not suggest, for a second, that I condemn anyone else for taking it.
The whole point of the game is personal preference.

But I'll finish with the concept behind my toon. Many years ago I used to play AD&D and I had a character who was such a scrapper you wouldn't believe - even had a Katana.
He also had a "ring of regeneration". Anyone who knows the game should know the magical item in question. It would bring you back from the dead providing it was still on your finger.
With that, my favourite character, in my past. How could I not take revive?

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Tender spot? not really as its not applicable to me, I just think its narrow minded and ignorant to issue any kind of blacket statement regarding anyone or anything as you cannot possibly know the people involved to such a degree. I consider such blanket statements bigoted.

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Would you be more comfortable if a labelled PvP novices as "stalker-fodder"? That was the general tone I've been picking up - along the lines of, "if you find stalkers a problem then you obviously don't know what you're doing. I never suggested that stalkers went out of their way to hunt novices, only that their success rate would rise sharply if their target was a Pvp-noob.

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Controller posts whould be here if the stalker wasnt, I know my controller is ludicrously strong on pvp and i should imagine when im on my own and have squeezed the life out of a villain over a period of 2-10 minutes depending on the AT, they would consider their pvp experience tainted.

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The difference between a stalker and a controller is obvious. The latter doesn't kill you instantly. The controller advertises his presence and allows his quarry to know when to down a b/f by holding him.
And I find your suggestion that because ppl are raising issues with stalkers they're not doing it with controllers a little puzzling. People only complain about one thing at a time?

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All my posts ahve said the same thing, try to think about PVP, its not the same as PVE, think, talk and have some fun. None of my post have been inflamatory or argumentative. As I have said before, I will talk people through my ATs weaknesses and how best to counter me and help them ease into the PVP game. If someone is new I tell people to go easy on them and we rotate, there is a bad element in all aspecs of the game but I and the rest of the regulars in Sirens do what we can to have fun and make it fun for others.

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Whilst none of my remarks are aimed at any one person. There are issues that need to be addressed. Remember, not everyone who plays is a regular on these boards. Someone new to a PvP zone may not know they have to enable villain chat first for example, but the list goes on and part of that list is a faceplant out of nowhere? Or a devastating attack followed by a SS away before a counter attack could be launched which happens again and again.

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Beats me why there are so many agressive and argumentative posts for the sake of it, if people are so agressive towards things I doubt that PVP is for them as they will be fuming unless they are winning all the time.

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A false assumption. Whilst I may get passionate about certain things on these boards losing the pvP zone doesn't bother me, and stalkers are nothing more than a minor annoyance.

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because its not how the game is engineered or structured. Holds, stuns and immobs would need to go to allow a possibility of escape and as for a battle, an obvious point is almost any melee character Vs an empath. Idealogically speaking there isnt anything wrong with your sentiment but the change in game dynamics and engineering involved is astronomical, it isnt feasably possible on this game, speaking as a developer myself. An entirely new game would ahve to be created for your sentiment to be realised

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Rubbish. As i've said elsewhere all of this can be overcome with insps and temporary powers, none of which require the game to completely overhauled.
An example of a temporary power (for squishies only) would be a shield that eliminated critical hits. Such a power already exists within the game so I fail to see where a complete restructuring of the game is required.
Keeping on the stalker theme, ditch the IR goggles and stick in a temporary power that gave some warning when a cloaked toon came within a certain range. If they've got yellows then now's the time to down them, if not you've got problems, but either way, if it's a blaster with superguns or a stalker at least you have a chance.
The point I;ve been (obviously) failing to make is that whilst you and TG are perfectly correct in ways in which to counter stalkers those options aren't always available or practical primarily because there aren't enough ppl on atm.
I think the devs know this as well. Do we think tonight's little foray was anything BUT an effort to stir up some interest in the flagging PvP aspect of the game?

The solution to all of this is obvious - have more people on at any one time. But how do you go from a zone with tumbleweeds rolling past to a thriving zone where there's usually a team with the right skillset about?
I personally would go for making sure it's fun from the outset, but that's just me.

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Had a mission in PI the other night, mission location was in one of the portals, clicked on return to base because I thought it would be quicker, I ended up at the statue at the very bottom of PI

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Ouch. The only use I see is in the hazard zones, where a trip to the hospital means a trip to and through another zone.
Still fairly limited, but useful on the odd occassion.

OK, lets make 2 things abundantly clear on this list (I've done it elsewhere, but I'll do it here as well).

1. I want PvP to gain on popularity.

2. I don't want anyone (not even stalkers) to be nerfed.

Is everyone clear on these two points?

I got involved in this thread because of the usual badgering and accusations of whining and endevoured to explain the alternate. Naturally my head was promptly jumped on.

TGs and Stalk-obot's defence of stalkers is; they're easy to counter.
My point is; that's true if the RIGHT people are on. Given how quiet the zones are atm that's not always possible. If they get busier then the problem should subside.
I suggested compensating with better/smarter temporary powers that were available regardless of who controlled the zone.

As I have said numerous times I believe any toon versus any other toon should have a chance, even if that chance is nothing more than just getting away.
Anyone want to jump in an explain to me why this is such an unreasonable viewpoint?

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and stormies ruin some peoples experience and regens do for other blah, blah, blah, cry, cry, cry. Plenty of build screw up my stalker and kill it in seconds, I dont whinge because i know I am strong in other areas.

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Where are all the threads about regens and trollers ruining ppls PvP experience?

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I didnt say leave it alone, but the fact is the game devs are so obsesses with tweaking as opposed to fixing the bugs things will get changed and we can do nothing about it, check all the nerfs in the past and ED. The devs dont really listen to us, if they did ED wouldnt ahve happened or would ahve been roled back.

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Regardless what they say ED was about the PvP aspect of the game and I can see why. I can only really speak about regen scrappers but if PvP was going on without ED I can tell you my toon would be almost unkillable. With dull pain running permanently, fast heal and health six-slotted and a big ole Reconstruction in the wings. It'd take three stalkers to bring me down, no tank could touch me. Brutes? Nothing to worry about there.
And that, frankly, wouldn't be right. So whilst the devs might be claiming that ED was nothing to do with PvP (Of course they wouldn't consider lying to the majority of their customers who only PvE to prevent an outcry that the game was being modified because of some game aspect they don't use, right?) the timing and the fact that an awful lot of toons became a lot more squishy suggest otherwise.

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fact is whining about it does nothing so why dont people suck it up and try to enjoy the game?

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See posting concering attempt to shame into silence.

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As for stalkers ruining the game? not nearly as much as incredibly rude people who get upset at being killed and sending offensive and abusive tells.

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They are rubbish, but then you can always chose to ignore them.

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OR people branding ALL players on one AT "noob hunters"

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Did I hit a tender spot
That's how the AT is coming across, and not just to me. Now stop whining about it and suck it up

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If you go into PVP upset that someone else doesnt ahve the powers to amke u unbeatable you wont ahve a good time, same as if you are relying on temp powers.

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Jeez, no one's asking to be unbeatable. People are asking to not insta-faceplant because there's a stalker on, their a squishy and a team with the right skillset isn't on at the time.
And yes, I know the one hit, one kill is being looked at. Two hit, one kill might be better, I don't know. We'll have to wait and see.

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heh i not strain at all prolly u getting jumpy though for no reason.

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For someone who likes to jump up and down and point whilst shouting "that's an assumption" you DO like to make an awful lot of them yourself.

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Obviously not cause most of the things you say are based on assumptions and what you imagine.

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Pot, kettle, black.

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See thats the problem just because not many people when you are on it doesnt mean anything. So traffic assumptions like the one you make is not really valid unless you spend a respectable amount of time in PvP

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I've spent plenty of time in Siren's Call. I gave up on Warburg a few weeks ago. But there's another ASSUMPTION on your part. Although if I knew what "respectable" meant in terms of a numerical value I could tell you, based on your own definition whether my assumption of traffic was valid or not.

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It has but you not really see it. The fact that the highest in numbers AT in CoV is the MM means there is a higher probability more and more MM's to come in PvP zones.

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Means nothing of the sort. Another assumption on your part.



[/ QUOTE ]1)the insps you cannot run them indefinetely but you can pop them between certain amounts of time. Plus the bounty allows you to buy larger insps if we talk about sirens[/quote}

Ah, so popping the insp at the right time relies solely on LUCK? And that's the advice? Be lucky?



[/ QUOTE ]2)i never implied you need respec. Plus the leadership pool is not useful for pvp only

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Kind of difficult to get it into your build WITHOUT a respec though unless you're below 30th lvl.

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3)yes of course but most of times there are defenders around there at least i seem to find one most of times with PUGs

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Not sure what PUGs means. I've found a defender a few times, enough to consider it "rarely", but not more than that.

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4)Team up. Pbaoe AT's spend time using them

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Again, people with appropriate powers aren't always there.

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5)ask who has the stalker as bounty in your team and they track him for you

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The stalker is NOT always the bounty target.

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I not need the hurricane to avoid stalkes just so you know i can turn off hurricane and spend all day without it still no AS will be performed. I not mind casual PvPers i mind when they start complaining because full PvP builds start killing them.{/quote]

As I said; finely tuned PvP build. TRY to comprehend that we dont all have one.

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I never said go respec plus you not need a respec you are of a level that you still got time to pick some nifty powers to help you

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I'm sure everyone is as grateful as I am for explaining that to us.

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Plus people that are at level 50 if you look around when they want to pvp they go respec usually. The majority of the level 50 population that is preparing to pvp is looking for pvp solutions and builds for their toons..so telling to go respec for some pvp at high levels is not insane after all.

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Unless you're between lvls 30 and 49 then you're buggered, and therin lies my point. The one you seem SO keen to avoid And that is that whilst your advice is good as far as it goes it is easy and COMMON for them not to be achievable (I'm ignoring the respec advice btw). Popping inspirations randomnly can be done anytime but that's a hit and hope strategy that offers as much defence as the auto-brawl (minimal).

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But if a casual PvPer expects to equal a commited PvPer who has respecced? Your ideas are basically remove any advantage that someone who likes PvP has over someone who doesn't care two hoots.

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My idea has, and always will be, and has so far been repeated several times, is that EVERYONE should have a chance against everyone else. Even if that chance is purely to get away.
Is that SO unreasonable?

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If a PvP zone normally has ten players and it then goes upto 12 players for an hour. That is the peak period, that has nothing to do with size or wether you think its a peak or mole hill.

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So, if Warburg has zero people and I stick my head in to see what's happening. I'll climb off the helicopter to discover I've arrived during peak time

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They dont, there are not that many in Sirens Call on defiant at any time. Also you need to bear in mind that they are a new AT and people are trying them out, there used to be loads of Masterminds untill all the heros went straight for them and squished them.

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Come on, there's always at least one stalker on, two more commonly, and as I said I've seen 5 villains on, 4 of which are stalkers.

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I really dont get why people are always moaning about things, if you are moaning you are not going to ahve a good time, why not relax and have fun, so what if you die you lose nothing, you dont like it, just go.

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Why are ppl always accusing others of moaning? Hell, say ANYTHING against ANY aspect of PvP and within minutes you be accussed of whining, moaning, complaining etc etc
Exchanging differing viewpoints is generally called a discussion and was what these boads were partly designed for.
Apparently PvP is a special case. There is nothing wrong with PvP at all. The devs got it perfect from the getgo. Anyone who disagrees is a whiny, moany crybaby and is just bitter because they no uber-@-PvP and should stay out of the zone and leave it to the proper PvPers.

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Perhaps if people spent less time writing moaning posts, casting offensive tags at everyone who plays one particlar AT and more time playing PVP they may enjoy it more.

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Oh please. There's a problem with stalkers. You can pretned there isn't if you want, but they are spoiling a lot of ppls PvP experience. Maybe not yours, maybe not TGs and bully for you both. but that doesn't, as MUCH as you try to make it so, take away from the fact that a lot of people are having problems with stalkers. Accusing them as whining and moaning is coming across as nothing less than an attempt to shame them into silence.

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So many posts here are basically saying "I dont like this, change it to make me happy" which is a fundamentally selfish view.

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No more selfish than "I don't mind it, leave it alone."

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They might be for a solo player (your arguments are justified), but having a team in PvP zone is not an unreasonable demand in my opinion. And I feel that is the most important factor.

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It's NOT a matter of having a team. I KEEP trying to stress this point, it's not having a team with the RIGHT skillset.
I mean the PvPers seem to behave like "well if you're not teamed with someone without XXX buffs then that's your own damn fault".
Given the TINY number of players that are generally on there it's not only possible, but almost probable that no one will have the right set of skills.
Couple that to not being able to buy temp powers and then you've got problems.

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So do i i tried but apparently i was wrong for believing and trying to see any good. Apologies to all that i got involved in this. I was wrong and maybe should show less faith at times. Sorry again

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I think it was damn decent of you to try in the first place, even going to the trouble of defending him on these forums.
Lets put it this way, if nothing else, it's been highlighted that he really isn't worth the effort.
Personally speaking I won't ever abuse him over the broadcast channel, not my thing really, but won't ever team with him, period.