HK008

Jab can take the Taunt IO's and Boxing can not. However, I think Taunt is a better place to put those IO's anyway. Melee, and Stun IO's are better off in Boxing since it will open Tough, and Weave. The only things Jab has going for it are the sound, and glowy effects like the rest of the set. If I could drop it from my Tanker I would in a heartbeat.

If you really hate Punch that much you might want to consider Air Superiority. Boxing, Air Superiority, and Haymaker might be more visually appealing. You could either not slot Punch, or look to use it as a mule later. I happen to like it though.

Have you considered taking Hasten, and Gloom yet? Since you use Boxing you can drop Shadow Punch. Resurgence isn't very optimal either and can be skipped. Since you have Quick Recovery, and Fitness you don't need Dark Consumption (I would never call it a bad pick though.). Eventually as you build up infamy you'll probably want more recharge to spam higher damaging attacks. An attack chain of Gloom, Midnight Grasp, Siphon Life, and Smite is very damaging.

With my SS/WP Brute I stuck with the idea of HP/regen/recharge. You can find hit point bonuses by 3 slotting defense/resistance powers pretty easily. Serendipity offers a small regen, AND hp boost at 2/3 slots respectively. Eventually you might want to consider Luck of the Gambler if you build the infamy. Impervious Skin, and Titanium Coating should be your resistance goals. At 3 slots they have a hp bonus.

You can probably frankenslot some Smashing Haymaker (3 pc = hp), and a 2pc Pounding Slugfest for regen. As a side effect those have some typed defense bonuses, but that is icing. I am sorry I don't post full builds. Hopefully you can find some of these ideas useful though.

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I find it extremely silly that the devs took away Ice Armor from Brutes and gave them Energy Aura ostensibly because "slowing the mobs attacking you hurt Fury" and left them with a powerset with an unsuppressed stealth and no continuous taunting mechanism so that it's harder to keep things attacking you in the first place (EA) and a set that has unsuppressed stealth with a minion-level permastun and lt-level fear to prevent them from attacking by stunning and reducing the frequency of those attacks through fear (DA).

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I've used DM with WP and it builds Fury very fast even at low levels. DM is fine. It's DA that has powers that work against the Fury mechanic.

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I realize that the official version is that with the advent of invention enhancements, enemies are not stronger, nor are archetypes weaker. However, since I've come back after a two year hiatus, it seems that this is not right. When I was playing before, I could solo up through level 12 or 15 with my Scrapper without dying more than maybe once or twice. It was challenging, but it was still relatively easy. Also, I could avoid slotting until reaching 12th at least.

Since returning, I've rolled a new Scrapper, and even at level 8, I'm finding pinks and yellows in all my missions, and they are hitting way more often than they should, in my opinion. I'm using an MA/SR Scrapper with Focused Fighting, Focused Senses and Combat Jumping. All three of these powers claim that they reduce your chances of being hit, and all three are slotted with Defense Buffs. And yet, it seems to me that my opponents are either not missing at all, or only missing every fourth or fifth time. Also, groups seem to be larger, even in Kings Row.

Am I missing something? I freely admit that I may need a better strategy, as it has been a couple years, but I'm surprised that even by level 8, I've needed to slot everything, and I've still died 4 times by this point. Can someone give me some advice?

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I find just about any AT to suck pre-22. For AT's that have defense abilities as a secondary it's almost like you don't have those powers for the early levels. I recommend getting your attacks slotted to about 4-5, and then start working up your defenses. That way when you hit 22 you will have some slotting in your secondary, but your primary is still the priority. Stick with it, and group if you can. Scrappers (like anything else) get so much better when you can use real enhancements.

Turning Focused Accuracy on in Mid's gives you a consumption of 1.03 end. I'm playing with an IO build which has Fighting. Using just Weave plus my other SR toggles gets me .75 end consumption. Add Tough, and it hits around 1.02 because I use it to mule some Steadfast. Another benefit I find from the Fighting pool is Absolute Amazement in Boxing. That's 10% more recharge at 5 slots, and some recovery too! I don't have the To Hit, but my global accuracy is very high.

I put the 5 Hecatombs in my Storm Kick as well, and the 6th has a common end IO. My Crane Kick, and Storm Kick have 5 Crushing Impacts, and the Mako Quad. Of these attacks Storm Kick has over 74.97% end reduction with the Crane/Crippling attacks at 85.71% (The recharge in those two is also 85.71%). Your current build as posted has 54% in Storm, and only 39% in Crane/Crippling. That's going to hurt in a fight lasting several minutes. My Eagle's Claw mule's ToD as well. My Dragon's Tail is 5 slotted for Armageddon. I think Hasten has a 2-3 second downtime.

I found adding hit points beyond 130% (accolades included) to be a chore while trying to keep other things up. MA misses out on a ranged purple set which has really sweet bonuses. Oh, and if you could find the room adding a Regenerative Tissue unique would give your regen a significant boost.

These are some of the things I plan for my MA/SR once I get done leveling my BS/SD. I hope the ideas help.

Regen is a reactive style of game play for the secondary. You almost always have control over your health. Willpower is passive with only one proactive defense (the Tier 9), and a reactive tool that you shouldn't aim to use (a self rez). Everything else is fire, and forget with a jack-of-all-trades theme.

I think both power sets are great in their own ways. I have an SS/WP Brute, and Tank. I tried a MA/WP scrapper, but without the same amount of knockdown (I know I got spoiled) I found it lacking. I think with Spines it would be a tough choice. I don't think either one wins out since it boils down to playstyle preference.

My Bane build has Wolf armor very early, but my Huntsman build takes it in the late 40's. Neither build was hit often enough soloing that being mezzed became an issue. I can't even remember the last time I grouped in which I was hit enough that being mezzed was an issue. Usually if I took enough aggro spike damage got me well before some silly hold did. These are PvE experiences. They make fine set mules if you have the power picks and a couple slots for them.

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More than likely. With both sets of auras running you should be more than soft capped defense wise if built properly. As long as your DPS beats their regen rate you should be able to.

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If built right is so vague. If the OP is refering to enhanced properly as in using IO sets/bonuses then yes the duo should work. The damage is going to be there especially after IO's. It will be the staying power, and survival that you want to plan for.

For the Crab I would suggest looking into some of the Crabtank builds in this forum. The idea is that you will layer some resistance with Fortification, and Fighting pool Tough (and really consider Weave). Serum increases your max hit points, and if you build for enough recharge you can have access to those bonus hit points often. It's also a sexy heal. You'll want enough personal defense so that the Bane can get you to 45% or higher. You will need soft cap (45% to melee/range/aoe) defenses to survive. Stacking defense buffs is a strength of the VEAT. Play to it. Be aware of what game you are hunting and what sort of debuffs they can place on you. SoA's have no resistance to defense debuffs so that is why I say "or higher" than 45%. Some other IO stuff to think about, Achille's Heel procs in your attacks. So many of the Crab attacks debuff defense. You might as will attempt to debuff their resistance as well to stack with your Venom Grenade (and Bane Surveillance). You'll want recharge to increase your damage out put, Serum up time, and pet up time (if you have room to bring Spiderling along, but at least try to fit in Reinforcements). You'll want recovery to sustain the toggles, and your attack chain. An AV fight can last several minutes, and you'll want the endurance to keep on doing your thing.

The Bane will be more of a support debuff/damage role. Crabs just have the advantage over Banes in the realm of resistance. Let him take the damage, but there is nothing wrong with trying to share some. This doesn't mean that a soft capped Bane is a wuss. You still have a base 20% hp boost which is nice, but Serum does give more HP. I'd highly recommend the Bane take Aid Self (I'd say the Crab might consider it for when Serum isn't ready). Aid Other (you'll need this or Stimulant anyway) isn't a bad option either, but hopefully Crabbykins will be self contained. Aid self will let the Bane heal up for when the hits occasionally land. If you get hit by an AV it will hurt, and you don't want to ignore it. Stick to the mace melee attacks, but do take Poisonous Ray (you can slot this with an Achille's Heel proc). Do take Surveillance as it is an awesome debuff tool, and consider taking Venom Grenade from the Wolf pool. The redraw from VG is annoying, but you both can stack that debuff. Try to fit in your pets. You'll have an easier time soft capping yourself so look out for your buddy, and consider taking the Leadership: Maneuvers to bring him up to 45% defense. Going over the defense cap doesn't hurt if you want to fight defense debuffing targets. You will also want some recovery bonuses, and recharge doesn't hurt. The attack animations are long, but I am talking about making Placate/Surveillance/Build Up recharge faster.

So there are some ideas off the top of my head. The scrapper in me suggests this with the idea of doing this with no inspirations. So take the ideas with that in mind.

The Bane does more damage in melee not just because of Hide + Build Up, but because the mace attacks do higher base damage. If you were opening with Build Up - Venom Grenade I can see how you would be disappointed with a Bane. If it's a target that I absolutely want to punish I'll Surveillance - Build Up - Shatter. Most of the time vs large spawns of minions Build Up - Crowd Control is just fine. I didn't keep VG on my Bane, and I still don't miss it. I love it on my range build though. If melee Crab is your bag then more power to you. However, building a melee Crab does nothing to offer suggestions to buff Banes which is the original purpose of the thread.

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"Do I, considering what I want to do with this build, feel that the Crab powers bring more to the table than Build Up and Surveillance?"

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I think that statement really sums up my feelings on the debate of Crab vs Huntsman. I'll add aesthetics to the mix though. You'll want to be happy playing the toon, and some folks don't like the look of the Crab backpack. The gun attacks have a more widely resisted damage type, but in practice I don't find that much of a drawback. I've played Crab, but I went back to my Huntsman build. With either of them I can melt minions, and LT's very quickly. I don't have that much more difficulty vs Bosses/EB's as a Huntsman due to Surveillance. It might not be the most optimal ranged attacker of the VEATs, but the Huntsman isn't that bad either.

I've recently taken apart my Bane and rebuilt it since he was missing out on i13 IO's. Recently as in it was a project that I messed with this week. hehe.

My first question when responding to posts about builds is "What are your goals?". Mine was soft capping defense. I did that, and I have tweaked it since then to also include global recharge as I am getting into purples (My Bane is probably my favorite villain, but my Widow is a close second). I have removed some old powers, and the travel. I did this mostly to make room for Aid Self. I have it on my Widow, a MA/SR scrapper, and it's in the plan for my BS/SD scrapper. I thought to myself "Why did I not take this on my Bane?".

Anyhoo, I wouldn't 2 slot Combat Training: Defense. Two slot Bane Armor, and try to get the global 3% defense from the Steadfast set. You already have the KB resist. You might as well get the recovery bonus from the pairing.

You can drop Combat training: Offensive. With TT: Leadership in your build this power is unnecessary (Actually I feel that power is unnecessary period, and even more so after respecing at 24). If you are going to slot the Thunderstrike set slot all 6 for the extra ranged defense. You have two IO's granting a regen bonus which is better served somewhere else.

Speaking of the Analyze Weakness set... I would recommend you look at Shield Breaker instead. At just 4 slots it gives AoE defense, and the 5th is a bonus to accuracy. The 6th is melee defense, but I wouldn't recommend that since the proc goes against using Surveillance from hidden. It's a risk I just don't want to deal with. Shield Breaker in Surveillance was my
choice.

You have 2 recharge, and 1 end in Cloaking Device. Go with a defense set. Red Fortune is solid, and maybe eventually look at Luck of the Gambler if you get into some cash.

I have no use for the Mace Mastery. The pet is nice, but it's 2 wasted picks on ranged powers I won't use. With Sprint I run over 40mph. No minion is going to out run me. Poisonous Ray makes it so that they die tired anyway. I also skipped Hasten. I've never had it on my Bane, and I never wanted it. The recharge on the mace attacks is fine as it is, and they have long enough animations it doesn't help that much. I did take pool Maneuvers and Combat Jumping. I 3 slotted CJ with the Zephyr set as it is just super awesome. If you don't slot that it's still worth it for the defense.

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Banes also lack good mez protection. Widows and Forts get 10.4 mag, Crabs get 14.4. Banes get 6 at most, though people even skip the first armor power meaning they only get mag 4. For a melee, that's pretty bad.

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I have never had any problems with being mezzed on my Bane, but I have been mezzed on my WP Brute. It was a pretty extreme on my Brute though. Several minions with Stun all hitting at once, and prior stuns still in effect. I think with the Bane I have the luxury of picking, and choosing my fights. My Brute sort of runs head first into everything. Rawr! I wouldn't mind a buff to the mez protection, but for PvE I haven't missed anything higher than 6.

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I think Banes' issue is that, to make maximum use of its potential, you must be unwieldy. Imagine a Broadsword/Kin Scrapper with Hide and Hidden criticals. To make use of the kin side, he must de-Hide himself. Additionally, using the kin side puts his sword away, requiring redraw. When using the Venom Grenade, you de-Cloak yourself, preventing yourself from criticalling on the first strike. When using Surveillance, you put away your Mace, requiring redraw; this increases the time between strikes, and lowers your DPS. Additionally, since both -res effects are so short-lived--correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe both are 20s--these issues will continuously pop up.

That exacerbates the already-existent Bane issue of long cast times.

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A bit extreme on the example, but I can agree with where you are going on it. I wouldn't open with Venom Grenade. I'd use it after I was done alpha striking a target using Surveillance - Build Up - Shatter, and then Pulverize if needed. Once that target's buddies bunch up you get into seriously annoying redraw issues if you want to max out your crit damage. Venom Grenade - Placate - Crowd Control. If only players had gotten a special version of Poisonous Ray that was a cone/pbaoe -res, -def, and it locked out Venom Grenade.

They went out of their way to make up new stuff for Crabs like Serum, Fortification, and Omega Maneuver. Banes don't even share the Whirling Mace of their Executioner brothers.

Since lowbie Wolf Spiders occasionally use the Mace Blast power line, and the rifle abilities, I would have liked to have seen a mix of those powers there. They could have the expanded, and newer toys in the Crab/Bane branches. If Banes wanted Mace Blasts they could dip into the Wolf powers like Night Widows do with Blood Widow powers.

Oh well. Dare to dream right?

I think the lack of defense debuff resistance is a VEAT wide issue. It does hurt the Bane the most due other mitigation factors (No God mode, self heal, scaling resistance etc...). I'd like to see some debuff resistance on all the branches, and perhaps Banes with the most. It could be added to Wolf Spider armor, Bane Spider armor, Cloaking Device, Combat Training: Defense (for both types), Foresight, and Mask Presence. I'd say keep it off the TT: Maneuvers but I wouldn't mind that was buffed to a skill like Grant Cover.

The higher ranged defense is not really an issue since that power is entirely optional for Soldiers. I'll agree that the lack of options is the true problem. This goes for Fortunatas as well. There should be a way for those particular branches to toggle out of the basic Combat Training : Defense to something more suitable to the new role. This would give melee Forts the opportunity to choose a higher melee defense, and ranged Forts more sensible defenses. Same goes for Banes. Let the Bane have an option to choose. It could be placed in the secondary as one of the first powers. Perhaps it unlocks with Bane Spider armor much like how several Epic AT's have multiple powers unlocking at level 12.

I tend to see the robo-spiders as my T9 defense power. It opens up at 38, lasts several minutes, and increases my survivability while it is up. Banes don't really need something else. Crabs don't need it, and Widows don't need it. Elude. It eludes me why they decided to place that power in the first place when they gave Widows Mind Link. The end recovery is really nice, but the hyper-defense was unnecessary.

The one big buff I can think of for Banes specifically would be allowing HP enhancement for the Bane armor. Other than that most of the quibbles I have with the branch can apply to the VEAT AT as a whole.

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If that is the case then you need to work on your Bane build, because on an SO level Widows have a total unsuppressed defense of 33.6 and Banes have an unsuppressed defense of 31.6 plus passive mez protection, 12% resist to all, and a 20% hp buff (one of the QoL issues was to let us enhance the hp don't see that as a buff though).

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My Bane build is fine thanks. I find it funny a guy that wrote a guide about this branch doesn't know the numbers on the powers being discussed. Tactical Training Maneuvers = 15.6% defense to all postions with 3 20% defense buff enhancements. Cloaking Device is 5.86% with the same enhancements. Now, in MIDs when you look at the totals it shows cloaking device fully active for a 11.7% defense buff. Which is where your numbers are wrong. Learn something new everyday.

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**You're right. My numbers were off. Look, I'll rehash some numbers showing Night Widows have an advantage.**

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For both the Widow and the Bane I included L:M and CJ if you wanted to go with just what they have available

Bane CD (suppressed) 3.75 and TT:M 10% = 13.75%
Widows have MP (suppressed) 2.5%, TT:M 5%, and Foresight 7.5% 15%

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**Now I'll add some power pool picks into the mix, and pretend like a Night Widow can't take those to further improve their numbers.**

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I'll admit most of my gripes with the Bane are pretty minor issues. I would have liked to see some of the powers arranged differently. The 20 something percent defense values before you add in power pools would be fine with me if the toys came a little earlier. I would have liked to see Web Cocoon earlier as I find I am big fan of using my Bane for offensive control as a defense. The pets are also very handy, but you have to wait until level 38 to unlock them (Vs how early mind link opens for widows. That's a huge defense advantage to them). In normal game play those QoL issues are pretty annoying. Shortening the Placate recharge, and adding defense debuff resistance would be great additions (put that resist on Widows as well!). So, Banes could use some buffs.

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QoL issues, minor buffs it doesn't matter what you call it. I do agree though a couple of things like adding some defense debuff resistance and adding healing enhancements to Bane Armor for more HP.

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Fixed.

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If that is the case then you need to work on your Bane build, because on an SO level Widows have a total unsuppressed defense of 33.6 and Banes have an unsuppressed defense of 31.6 plus passive mez protection, 12% resist to all, and a 20% hp buff (one of the QoL issues was to let us enhance the hp don't see that as a buff though).

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My Bane build is fine thanks. I find it funny a guy that wrote a guide about this branch doesn't know the numbers on the powers being discussed. Tactical Training Maneuvers = 15.6% defense to all postions with 3 20% defense buff enhancements. Cloaking Device is 5.86% with the same enhancements. Now, in MIDs when you look at the totals it shows cloaking device fully active for a 11.7% defense buff. Which is where your numbers are wrong. Learn something new everyday.

I'll admit most of my gripes with the Bane are pretty minor issues. I would have liked to see some of the powers arranged differently. The 20 something percent defense values before you add in power pools would be fine with me if the toys came a little earlier. I would have liked to see Web Cocoon earlier as I find I am big fan of using my Bane for offensive control as a defense. The pets are also very handy, but you have to wait until level 38 to unlock them (Vs how early mind link opens for widows. That's a huge defense advantage to them). In normal game play those QoL issues are pretty annoying. Shortening the Placate recharge, and adding defense debuff resistance would be great additions (put that resist on Widows as well!). So, Banes could use some buffs.

If Banes can't be compared to Widows then what should they be compared with? Crabs? Mngwa said it best. At SO level the other VEAT paths exceed what a similarly enhanced Bane can do. I've found this to be dead on from playing Bane, Crab, Huntsman, Fort, and NW. IOing a Bane will make it very competitive, but IOing out the other 3 still makes them stronger. IOing other power combos in other AT's can yield a strong if not stronger character as well. Banes are hardly OP vs anything.

Banes are very squishy in melee, and that is where they are at their best. You have to dip into pool powers and IO sets to close up the defensive weakness. That's hardly OP. That's poor game design. The mace attacks are fun to use, but the power selection order is in need of an overhaul. Bash at level 1, and then then next decent attack at... 12? Seriously? I know it's not a huge deal because you respec into it at 24, but the power order shows little to no thought. You also find yourself filling up the powers between 1-12 with fillers. I took mace beam over combat training defensive. Mace beam is a mule for Thunderstrike, and it in no way hurts my ability to soft cap my range defense. It's a lack luster attack, and I would have loved to choose say... Pulverize much early. If I could then maybe I could free up some later choices and take other powers instead of being railroaded into front loaded power pool picks.

I really do enjoy playing my Bane. Once you overcome it's defensive issues it's a real blast to play, and it can do a lot. It's getting to that point that's a royal pain in the rear, and it could be smoothed out a bit from a design perspective.

If you plan on soloing AV's (without inspirations) you might want to make room for aid self, and the fighting powers. Otherwise I think you will be fine without aid self, but do take tough/weave.

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Any thoughts from seasoned SoA's?

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Novella spoke truth, but truly your both SoA's as long as you
take those leaderships and other "group" powers, youll be
golden even if you stay wolfspider and she stays bloodwidow.
(but fort and crab likely best)

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For truth! It won't matter what you two play as long as you take the leadership maneuvers early, and the widow picks up mind link. Even the "squishy" bane can get nice defense numbers with another SoA close by. I really don't think you can go wrong with any combo. Play what you like, and remember dual builds are your friend!

I can understand where you are coming from. I feel this pain more so for my SoA because I would like to have a slot for the bane/crab armor, and one for the wolf spider armor. My widow is a bit different. I went without the helm, and went with a color scheme I enjoy. She is more alike to the unique widow NPCs ala Ghost Widow than she is the more generic fortunata/nw. The VEAT story line only enforces this more. I'd love to have a helmet-less bane/wolf costume as well. It would feel even more like the character broke away from the mold. Hmmm