Fire_Away

Whew! Glad I got it mostly right and very much appreciate Sunstorm's confirmation. Being an unbiased rep for an entire community isn't easy.

Here's my report from Hero-Con regarding bases. It comes from both public (Session Q & A's) and private conversations (one on one I had with Sunstorm and others).

Sunstorm is our base rep. He has a complete handle on the community's base issues and wishes. His personal love for bases (as opposed to the term base love) extends back to before he was a developer and into his CoH playing days.

The new development "current plan" is dominated by Going Rouge (projected release 2nd Quarter 2010). Bases are NOT a part of the "current plan". This is significant because:

Base Decorative Items - Praetoria (new Going Rouge Zone) is totally new. Every tree, every streetlight, every newspaper box is new art. The CoH art department has a lot on their plate right now and Sunstorm was certain a request for base decorative items for art near term would not compete against near term GR art needs (I saw a small glimpse of Praetoria and I see what he means).

Base Functional Items - The devs seemed very receptive to new functional items for bases (such as market, AE, etc. interface) with one exception (recipe storage in bases... Positron feels STRONGLY hoarding recipes will send market prices skyrocketing... no matter that there are already workarounds using alts, player transfers, etc.... in base recipe storage isn't going to happen). The rub with immediate new functional items, again, seems to be artwork. The devs want this stuff to look new and cool when it does go in. And, of course, the art department, once again, has their hands full with GR. (personal observation: the devs didn't seem enthused about the idea of using development "workarounds"... for art or anything else. They had a "If we put it in the game, we want it to look cool and work right" philosophy throughout the Con... not just bases).

Base raids (to include CoP) - The devs really want to bring base raids back. But Positron made it clear that raids were not in "the current plan". However, base raid awesomeness (Positron's words, desire confirmed by Sunstorm) is something they want to get to (I got the impression that some initial raid ideas had been kicked around already but I cannot confirm that part for certain or when raids will be available).

Base Editor - I heard nothing about new editing capability...just that bases, in general, were something the devs really wanted to work on... but they were not... you guessed it... in the current plan (and competing with other things they want to work on).

Base Graphic Effects - All of CoH is going to undergo something the devs called "ultra graphics". Windows (and real game water as opposed to slow fields) reflects, shadows occur with change of day and other effects of that nature happen (it looked great btw). Unknown how much of this will apply to bases; but shadowing indoors (including bases) won't work.

Non "current plan" development - Sometimes, QoL features, fixes, and other such development happens outside the strict plan-execute development process and makes it into the game. This is a result of inside dev conversations and tinkering. During Hero-Con, I noticed that the devs loved to talk about when or how these things happened in the past and made it live. But we players have no clue about this stuff beforehand... for bases or anything else. So, technically, the door isn't 100% completely closed for possible near term base development but we should count on nothing in this category happening. It's just an outgrowth of non-linear thinking from some very smart people.

Bases will eventually accomodate many types of players - The devs have a high confidence in this area. Example (1) - I publicly asked how sg's/vg's were going to work with switching from hero to villain (and vice versa). The answer I got back was that it will be an "involved process" (the details of which were not revealed at the Con). But, I was told this process was designed to include many possible player preferences. Example (2) - A programming dev told me that a raid capable /not raid capable (e.g. decorative base) option is entirely doable when raids come back online.

In closing I would like to thank Sunstorm (sorry I spilled your glass of water and almost fried your phone during my introduction..., I was a little nervous ) and all the devs who responded to my questions for their time and attention. The Con was great even though the [edit add: near term] base news wasn't. I learned more about new development in one and a half days at Hero-Con than one and one half years of prior forum reading.

Fire_Away
aka Fifty One Fifty at the Con

HERO-CON is off the hook and the Welcome Address isn't until tomorrow! I spent $127 at Wentworth's and might head back for more. Seriously, go if you ever can.

I note that one Johnathan Courney (Sunstorm) is leading a panel discussion on another topic (powers balancing) tomorrow afternoon. So I plan on at least introducing myself after that if not beforehand.

Also there's a suggestion box for "Wouldn't it be great if..." topics that they may or may not choose to expound upon Sunday. Somebody has been putting base stuff in that too. I believe I saw the one Obsidious recommended go in pretty much as written above (and thank you for the kind words).

Finally, I'm kinda of a painful introvert by nature so I may not be your best guy for "buttonholing" devs (but I will try and ask as well as keep my ears open and do my best). So if anyone else is at the Con and hears base related stuff, I hope they will also share (provided, of course, it is "sharable" information under forum rules).

From Websters: "man-i-fes-to a public declaration of intentions, opinions or purposes"

I note a recurring theme within our community at the mention of ANY type new development. When it comes to new development, you can almost gaurantee that one or more of the following statements will result from within our ranks:

"Bases did not turn out like the devs planned and it's 'thrown them' some", "That has been asked for for years.", "The devs are taking time to get it right", "The devs are doing nothing in the near term.", "The next iteration of development will be pvp based.", "The devs have already acknowleged ___", "We are a small community so don't expect much.", "We are one day going to get the comprehensive 'big fix'". "CoP/IoP raids will be back.", "CoP/IoP raids are dead", "We're getting/not getting more functional ability", "We're getting/not getting more decorative (editing) ability.", "The current system is badly bugged.", "The current system is just plain broken." "The current system is usable but less than ideal.".

I can go on but you get the idea. I have my thoughts on each of the above statements and have even speculated as to their validity from time to time myself. But, to be perfectly honest, I really have no idea as to the "truth" of any of the above (and some are conflicting). And yet these seem to be thrown about as "fact" in the forum depending on the point of view of one who is trying to make a point at the time.

And so I respectfully call for (and not call out... big difference) a written Base Manifesto from someone in authority who can shed some light on the subject. I am totally confused as to where we are at in the new development process for bases (is it suspended?, ongoing?, big reveal planned can't talk about?, dead in the water?)... let alone where we are headed (pvp?, editor?, decorative?, functional?). Should we keep proposing new stuff? Or is it a waste of time (or is the "wish list" queue full... or even complete)?

While I can appreciate (and often enjoy reading) the spin of my fellow players on these topics... I'm essentially begging for red name insight here...to the degree it can be publicly conveyed.

I understand the "answer" we receive may be personally disappointing. I understand that the devs are busy developing and there may be no answer to this at all. But here's my first thread ever in the Base Construction forum... and I thought the request was worth making.

P.S. I'm lucky enough to be going to Hero-Con (old guy, glasses, ballcap, arachnos button, wallflower personality, can't miss me). Hope to see you there Sunstorm!

P.S.S. Players, if I hear anything publicly base related I will let you know

Take the prestige Joe Schmo sg member earns. Give to the sg as is done now.

Mutiply this same prestige number by some factor (2, .5, 1...depends on how generous or stingy of dev you are).

Give to Joe Schmo with existing editor access as is for a personal base. Tell him play and have fun.

If, after testing, this upsets the balance of CoX universe in any way... pull the plug.

If not, we all play and have fun.

End of complex new system.

Sorry, now I really am done (and thanks for the discussion)

It's a workaround. Probably the best one can do under existing circumstances. Myself, I would prefer not to split hard earned prestige in so many different directions or suck up valuable toon slots with multiple versions of the same character. But to each his (her) own until or unless something better comes along.

My view is that it's almost a self-fufilling prophecy type thing. The community is small because the number of players that can participate in base design, compared to the general population, is small. Giving everyone a stake in say a personal apartment (or base within a base if you will) type of arrangement would change that. Change the paradigm (sorry, I guess that word is not in vogue anymore huh?) and people will flock to bases.

Likewise, the decorative world dominates the scene these days (in the forums and elsewhere) because the functional is limited. [note: I have nothing against decorating bases per se; just making a point.]. Add more functionality (i.e. have bases do more with a potential benefit to everyone) and we all win.

Others have said it much better than I... the potential here is limitless... and near completely untapped. Bases, with a little effort, could be the "new costumes" (i.e. a world class feature to a world class game). Instead, they mostly languish while the developers pursue other interests.

I find it a crying shame... but I'm not driving this bus. [edit add: just yelling out the direction I'd like to go from the back row of seats ]

Yep, the reply is spot on. This was all supposedly done to avoid confusion so I hope you are now less confused. Also, if you really do have a "ton" of base salvage and you are converting, carve out some time and limber up that mouse clicking finger because this goes one conversion at a time.

From Hero-Con 2009: Overview and Panels:

I'm always looking for more functionality with bases so I'm gonna go with:

1. Inf transfer between characters mechanism
2. Market Interface
3. Mission computer (one that allows AE and sg based mission access)

As the top three. Like lots of people, I have many others

I'm interested to see how this turns out for the authors. I wonder: Will guest authors be compensated? Will they be required to follow the same AE rules/restrictions as the rest of us? Seems to me the "rewards" for a pro to say leave an established niche/following (where they are well liked and where just about anything he/she can imagine is doable) to enter the world of AE in many cases isn't worth the "risks" (to reputation due to snark or comparsons that "my arc is better", etc.). How many will want to open themselves up for what could be some major abuse?

Well, there's no on/off switch for these items if that is what you mean. Some (but not all) will animate when you first place them. And I just checked, my slow field "water" effect is still working (requires a "float" of the slow field item).

My view is that CoP/IoP fix development goes in cycles sort of like this:

Step 1: Someone on the dev team, with the best of intentions, decides to "take a stab" at "back burner" type issues like the CoP/IoP and associated base raids. The player community is informed (or rumors start) that something "is in the works".

Step 2: That person(s) opens up the code and goes "Ugh, this is terrible and what we have in mind for a fix doesn't work either. This is going to be a lot harder than we thought."

Step 3: A rationalization takes place that compares the level of effort required to make this right versus "the next big thing" in development (read AE, going rouge, going to the moon, or whatever). A contributing consideration is that only a small portion of the player community is interested in raids and compared to "the next big thing", a CoP/IoP/raid fix is less important.

Step 4: The matter is not forgotten but is "put on the shelf" (back burner). At a later date, go to Step 1.

It's important to note that I'm not calling anyone dishonest, lazy or anything of the kind. But until or unless I hear words like there is going to be "a major commitment" to "see this through to the end" I'm skeptical that we will see anything like a return of the CoP/IoP and associated raids anytime soon.

No question about it, there's some fairly ugly scenarios that could be associated with this no matter how it works. Can you imagine the outcry, for example, if you have a SOLO base and can't take it with you if you switch sides?