Base Manifesto

From Websters: "man-i-fes-to a public declaration of intentions, opinions or purposes"

I note a recurring theme within our community at the mention of ANY type new development. When it comes to new development, you can almost gaurantee that one or more of the following statements will result from within our ranks:

"Bases did not turn out like the devs planned and it's 'thrown them' some", "That has been asked for for years.", "The devs are taking time to get it right", "The devs are doing nothing in the near term.", "The next iteration of development will be pvp based.", "The devs have already acknowleged ___", "We are a small community so don't expect much.", "We are one day going to get the comprehensive 'big fix'". "CoP/IoP raids will be back.", "CoP/IoP raids are dead", "We're getting/not getting more functional ability", "We're getting/not getting more decorative (editing) ability.", "The current system is badly bugged.", "The current system is just plain broken." "The current system is usable but less than ideal.".

I can go on but you get the idea. I have my thoughts on each of the above statements and have even speculated as to their validity from time to time myself. But, to be perfectly honest, I really have no idea as to the "truth" of any of the above (and some are conflicting). And yet these seem to be thrown about as "fact" in the forum depending on the point of view of one who is trying to make a point at the time.

And so I respectfully call for (and not call out... big difference) a written Base Manifesto from someone in authority who can shed some light on the subject. I am totally confused as to where we are at in the new development process for bases (is it suspended?, ongoing?, big reveal planned can't talk about?, dead in the water?)... let alone where we are headed (pvp?, editor?, decorative?, functional?). Should we keep proposing new stuff? Or is it a waste of time (or is the "wish list" queue full... or even complete)?

While I can appreciate (and often enjoy reading) the spin of my fellow players on these topics... I'm essentially begging for red name insight here...to the degree it can be publicly conveyed.

I understand the "answer" we receive may be personally disappointing. I understand that the devs are busy developing and there may be no answer to this at all. But here's my first thread ever in the Base Construction forum... and I thought the request was worth making.

P.S. I'm lucky enough to be going to Hero-Con (old guy, glasses, ballcap, arachnos button, wallflower personality, can't miss me). Hope to see you there Sunstorm!

P.S.S. Players, if I hear anything publicly base related I will let you know

Development priorities for SG Bases ought to be as follows:

• 1. Decorative
• 2. Editor
• 3. Functional
• 17. PvP

It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...

A decent in-game tutorial would be nice too. It could have short videos "This is how to float a lamp" followed by short sessions of practicing.

It's been a year now since Sunstorm arrived. Think it is time to stop by and at least say Hi again.

Basful Banshee Founder of the Benefactors.

Fire_Away, you and I have had our disagreements in the past, but I fully support and endorse you respectfully bringing up this topic at Hero Con. Not to put Sunstorm as the scapegoat for all of our base development, or lack thereof, but the developers (in general) do owe us some news about what the future of bases will be - and a reasonable timeframe as when we can expect some further development on the base front. It's high time we got an update, and not just price breaks or more rent changes.

That being said, I would like you to ask the developers about construction techniques, such as the aforementioned editor but, more importantly, if there will be an easier way to create multiple floors in rooms, creating vertical bases, and so forth. Like others' I'm also interested in more decorative items and more in-base functioning items, such as consignment terminals, AE terminals, and the like.

Finally, thanks for taking the time to gather input. Since I can't go to Hero Con myself this year, it's good that someone who is looking out for bases to represent us. Have fun in San Jose!

Sunstorm's post history

Read it carefully and ask yourself where his focus really is.

Personally, I think there are some existing problems with bases and the base editor that should be addressed before adding extra decor on top of it all.

These are the things Sunstorm apparently has on his list for us (personally, I think it's rather truncated):

HERO-CON is off the hook and the Welcome Address isn't until tomorrow! I spent $127 at Wentworth's and might head back for more. Seriously, go if you ever can.

I note that one Johnathan Courney (Sunstorm) is leading a panel discussion on another topic (powers balancing) tomorrow afternoon. So I plan on at least introducing myself after that if not beforehand.

Also there's a suggestion box for "Wouldn't it be great if..." topics that they may or may not choose to expound upon Sunday. Somebody has been putting base stuff in that too. I believe I saw the one Obsidious recommended go in pretty much as written above (and thank you for the kind words).

Finally, I'm kinda of a painful introvert by nature so I may not be your best guy for "buttonholing" devs (but I will try and ask as well as keep my ears open and do my best). So if anyone else is at the Con and hears base related stuff, I hope they will also share (provided, of course, it is "sharable" information under forum rules).

There doesn't really seem to be a general question and answer set up, although so far everyone has been really approachable (despite that, I've been in my room or out of the hotel the majority of the time).

We'll see what gets said at the opening today (in about 2 hours!).

<crosses fingers> Good luck!

Glad to know Cende and Fire-Away are there. Hopefully others are as well. Good luck, and keep us posted.

I've talked to Sunstorm, asked him to please post, give an update.

The bad news is that he's been kept busy and there's no base love on the horizon. He feels terrible about it, however.

There's a teeny-tiny, minuscule possibility that some of the reflection tech for GR will show up in the bases. The shadow-depth won't.

I heard we're getting a new official base contact. Unfortunately, the contact is a turnip.

Well that's good.
I am hungry.

Here's my report from Hero-Con regarding bases. It comes from both public (Session Q & A's) and private conversations (one on one I had with Sunstorm and others).

Sunstorm is our base rep. He has a complete handle on the community's base issues and wishes. His personal love for bases (as opposed to the term base love) extends back to before he was a developer and into his CoH playing days.

The new development "current plan" is dominated by Going Rouge (projected release 2nd Quarter 2010). Bases are NOT a part of the "current plan". This is significant because:

Base Decorative Items - Praetoria (new Going Rouge Zone) is totally new. Every tree, every streetlight, every newspaper box is new art. The CoH art department has a lot on their plate right now and Sunstorm was certain a request for base decorative items for art near term would not compete against near term GR art needs (I saw a small glimpse of Praetoria and I see what he means).

Base Functional Items - The devs seemed very receptive to new functional items for bases (such as market, AE, etc. interface) with one exception (recipe storage in bases... Positron feels STRONGLY hoarding recipes will send market prices skyrocketing... no matter that there are already workarounds using alts, player transfers, etc.... in base recipe storage isn't going to happen). The rub with immediate new functional items, again, seems to be artwork. The devs want this stuff to look new and cool when it does go in. And, of course, the art department, once again, has their hands full with GR. (personal observation: the devs didn't seem enthused about the idea of using development "workarounds"... for art or anything else. They had a "If we put it in the game, we want it to look cool and work right" philosophy throughout the Con... not just bases).

Base raids (to include CoP) - The devs really want to bring base raids back. But Positron made it clear that raids were not in "the current plan". However, base raid awesomeness (Positron's words, desire confirmed by Sunstorm) is something they want to get to (I got the impression that some initial raid ideas had been kicked around already but I cannot confirm that part for certain or when raids will be available).

Base Editor - I heard nothing about new editing capability...just that bases, in general, were something the devs really wanted to work on... but they were not... you guessed it... in the current plan (and competing with other things they want to work on).

Base Graphic Effects - All of CoH is going to undergo something the devs called "ultra graphics". Windows (and real game water as opposed to slow fields) reflects, shadows occur with change of day and other effects of that nature happen (it looked great btw). Unknown how much of this will apply to bases; but shadowing indoors (including bases) won't work.

Non "current plan" development - Sometimes, QoL features, fixes, and other such development happens outside the strict plan-execute development process and makes it into the game. This is a result of inside dev conversations and tinkering. During Hero-Con, I noticed that the devs loved to talk about when or how these things happened in the past and made it live. But we players have no clue about this stuff beforehand... for bases or anything else. So, technically, the door isn't 100% completely closed for possible near term base development but we should count on nothing in this category happening. It's just an outgrowth of non-linear thinking from some very smart people.

Bases will eventually accomodate many types of players - The devs have a high confidence in this area. Example (1) - I publicly asked how sg's/vg's were going to work with switching from hero to villain (and vice versa). The answer I got back was that it will be an "involved process" (the details of which were not revealed at the Con). But, I was told this process was designed to include many possible player preferences. Example (2) - A programming dev told me that a raid capable /not raid capable (e.g. decorative base) option is entirely doable when raids come back online.

In closing I would like to thank Sunstorm (sorry I spilled your glass of water and almost fried your phone during my introduction..., I was a little nervous ) and all the devs who responded to my questions for their time and attention. The Con was great even though the [edit add: near term] base news wasn't. I learned more about new development in one and a half days at Hero-Con than one and one half years of prior forum reading.

Fire_Away
aka Fifty One Fifty at the Con

Thanks Fire-Away.

It seems the idea is there, but the time isn't. Which means they plan to get around to it eventually. As you said, no telling when eventually will be.

It struck me that their answers to the SG/VG Side Switching was going to be an involved process. One where players will have options. There is no telling how that could affect SG's/VG's that presently exist as far as Roster Counts, Activity, etc...

I am glad they are doing more work with Reflective, and Shadow effects, and building it into the game. New artwork for Praetoria sounds intriguing.

Guess we'll just have to keep working with the tools we got, and hope eventually gets here...eventually.

Thanks again to you and Cende, and any other Base Builders folks who attended.

Edited for spelling, and to add:

From what you've said, it sounds like some plans are at least already in the works, but behind the scenes of the Current Plan. Being worked on in spare time by some. We'll just have to see. I wouldn't say the door is 100% closed either.

I look forward to GR though!

While I have remained silent for quite some time on the issues, my position still stands. I am in full support of keeping the Bases Issues in the forefront and really hope some of those "QoL features, fixes, and other such development" happen in the coming issues.

Thanks a lot, Fire_Away and Cende, for heading to Hero-con, for making sure the base building community was heard, and for reporting back and not leaving those of us who couldn't go out of the loop.

It's great to hear that they do realize that some supergroups would prefer not to use their base for raiding and that they are thinking of giving us options to accommodate those groups. I'm also glad to hear that they would rather put the time and effort in to make everything in bases both look good and work. That says to me that while they may not themselves have spent hours stacking things in a room so that it would look just right, they understand that some of us do, and they understand how important it is to some of us that our bases look fantastic as well as being useful.

Hopefully, since the devs are obviously paying attention to what we want, and since they do want to get to work on bases, and since there IS a massive new expansion coming out soon, we can get some base love after Going Rogue, when they're looking for something not-so-big to work on, and maybe they'll throw us a bone (or fifty).

I won't be holding my breath, but I will be using every breath I take to hope for base love.

Yep, thanks for posting that Fire Away, that pretty much sums it up perfectly.

It was great talking with you and Cende at the Con as well!

I'm still working on content for bases, and we have some very big plans waiting in the wings, but for right now my main focus is on GR. (In fact, the projects I'm working on are so big I barely have time to get away to post.)

yay!

Whew! Glad I got it mostly right and very much appreciate Sunstorm's confirmation. Being an unbiased rep for an entire community isn't easy.