DarkMaster

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I was playing my stalker yesterday (EM/Regen). I hit total focus from hide and, as expected, it was a partial Critical. Later I hit Energy Transfer out of hide and, as expected, there was no critical (though no loss of life either.)

So, I got bored of the stalker and I went to my brute, EM/Elec. I'm using small attacks....and I hit total focus...I continue to build fury and I hit total focus again....and...the damage increased with fury. So, in my chain I hit ET, hit some smaller attacks....hit ET again..and the damage increased.

So, why is it that the EM attacks work flawlessly with the brute inherent but not the stalker inherent?

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Uhm....I'm lost....what the heck is your question?

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After some basic testing in the arena with my Earth/Thorns vs. a Spines/SR and a Spines/Dark scrapper, I have to say: it's likely a nerf bat is coming for doms.

Every attack my /thorns did was WAY more than the scrapper version (with a build-up!). I mean, out-of-the-park more.

Their throw spines did under 100, my throw thorns did well over 200. Impale: about 80 vs. 240+

I mean, it was grossly sick. Granted, we could both kill each other... the dom with less HP didn't need as much damage to take down, but I had to ask myself (at least regarding thorns/spines): why play a scrapper?

My dom got MORE resistance than the SR (but I had little trouble constantly hitting a defense-based toon, as I am earth and thorns...). Also, I have WAY more attacks. I didn't need to take 8 defensive powers, I could take 8 more attacks.

I love the pvp feel, the raw power, but I am certain we'll soon see all doms and not much else in RV (maybe a few MMs or something).

Doms needed something, and boy did they get it. A little too much. I expect some powers (on a power-by-power basis) to be looked at.

Should a dominator with even-level SO's be able to 4- or 5- shot a fully IO'd out scrapper? Especially when the scrapper can maybe 4- or 5- shot *if* they get a couple crits.

I guess in a 1 on 1, it's not bad, but this really is broken for zone/FFA. I mean, blaster damage & resists but with lots of mez and debuffing? Wow.

-r0y

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Dude...Dominators have simply been turned into the "CoV" version of the "Blaster" man. I don't find a problem with that at all. AT ALL. Why should only Heroes have access to "real" ranged damage? I think it's about dammn time Villains got some ranged damage in there, and no, I don't think it's too much. They'll have a little less damage than a Blaster and EVEN be LESS survivable defense wise. Again, I don't see a problem with Domies have good damage...


Besides, currently, Dom attacks are a little bugged in pvp, so most likely they will be getting "toned down" just a bit with the next patch, which is very soon. So don't sweat...

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I hate the new PVP rules. What is it, 2 or 3 of the same set bonus now? I pimped out my stalker so he has softcapped ranged and melee defense. I go into RV and the numbers are a lot lower.

They should've never changed the rules.

It's [censored] stupid.

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I do think that DR affects defense sets pretty harshly in pvp right now, definately. Personally, I think they should increase our Elusivity in pvp from it's current 10% to around 15% at least. I think they went a little overboard on nerfing Elusivity in pvp...

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For cute powers, Energy beats Electrical - PowerBoost is far more interesting (to me) than Voltaic Sentinel).

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But, Elec does get Build Up instead, which is pretty sweet

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Defenders dont need buff. They heal and debuff and do OK damage considering they are defenders. If you want to be a damage dealer in pvp, roll something else, or roll the right build.

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well if your so unhappy then just quit the game and leave the rest of us alone that still have fun. just b/c your pissed about the changes or b/c you suck doesnt mean we give a $hit. take your rants elsewhere, your annoying.

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Agreed. With all.

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Besides Fiery embrace, What does FA bring to the table that is better than invuln? And after looking at Dark Melee some more, I cant make myself roll one, its numbers are terrible.

Any other primaries besides SS that are decent?

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Uhm...basically...in pvp right now, if you wanna do decent (not good...brutes don't do good, they do decent at best) you're lookin at basically 2 primaries:

1st place Super Strength and 2nd place Energy Melee.

A runner up might be Stone Melee if built and played right though. Other than that...I really don't think any of the other primaries are all that great at all, even EM is a far fetch for 2nd place..

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When you are debuffed for defense, you get hit a LOT often than the typical 50% chance to be hit. If you monitor your stats, you'll find that the times you really start hurting on electric are when:

1) Your resistance is debuffed
2) Your defense is debuffed
3) You're facing an EB/AV

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While this is true, unless we had SR levels of Defense Debuff Resistance or greater, the fact is Defense Debuff Resistance isn't going to do much for a set that relies almost entirely on resistance for it's protection. It's just simply NOT going to give noticeable enough improvements to ELA, and it doesn't even fit theme. Resistance based sets never usually gain access to Defense Debuff Resistance...and there's reason for that. Don't bring up Invuln either, because Invuln definately has Defense which needs protection from defense debuffs.


Nope. What would help ELA, is [u]one[u] of 4 things:

1.) A minor form of Regeneration (similar to a Scrapper's "Integration" from Regen).
2.) A "Dull Pain" like power
3.) Moderate +Defense (similar to what WP has access to)
4.) More resistance, in the form of a 10-15% increase to base.


One of those are the only things that will really help ELA compete with other armor sets. I'd suggest a "heal" like Reconstruction, but I think that might be too powerful even. That, or the dev's have to really "amp up" ELA's ability to Drain Endurance if that is to be one of it's main means of damage mitigation, because right now, it doesn't work very well on anything past "even con" minions...

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I think the biggest fix they could do for sets like Fire and Electric is Defense debuff resistance. What I find causing me the most problems is that after fighting the average Spawn is that my defense is in the Red meaning I am taking more damage. Because I am taking more hits.

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Hmm...I really don't think that "defense debuff resistance" would do all that much to improve the survivability of an armor set that relies totally on resistance...


That'd be a "slap-in-the-face" buff/fix if you ask me, and wouldn't solve anything. So please don't give the dev's the idea to do this lol.. cause I could see them doing something like that...


I still think a Dull Pain type power would be best..

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It's pretty hard for me to choose between those two. =/

Could anyone give me an advice?

Oh, and this is for PvP, not for PvE.

Thanks.
Jin.

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Electric Armor is a horrible secondary for pvp, don't waste your time with it. It's actually probably the worst in pvp right now, I'd definately rank even DA above it right now even..

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The thing i dont like the fact that i get chain held, reminds me of old pvp. Now with that said it could be because of a team of doms is now doing it where before it was one.

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There is no such thing as "chain holding" in pvp anymore. Not even close. In fact, without domination running or Power Boost, even dominator holds only last about 2 seconds at best, especially if the victim is running Acrobatics, is a melee toon, and/or has some good mez resist set bonuses (which almost "everyone" has if they want to compete in pvp, and if they don't...then they can't really complain..). So, you survive that 2 seconds worth of mez, which most can even with the new dominator damage (unless your being spiked by 3-4 doms and stalkers at once...and then what do you EXPECT to happen...you survive? ) and now you have a supression time in which you cannot be affected by any mez's (barring KB) for an awesome amount of time. You are virtually immune to them, so use that to your advantage if you can.


Heroes can do this same type of "mez" spike as well, all it takes is one controller, to keep things "zone simple" you can make him Empathy and now you have a "spike setter" as well as an awesome healer/buffer, add about 2-3 Blasters to that mix, and yea....Villains die...VERY fast, I've been on both sides of the fence on that.


Furthermore, Blasters can, also, attain some decent mez abilities in pvp and still pack some great damage, if we want to "push" that mez+dmg issue. Ice/Energy Blasters for one (I know Ice hasn't been the "best" lately, but they aren't horrid compared to villain ranged dmg) couple an IO'd Freeze Ray+Power Boost and you can actually hold someone for almost as long as a "non" Power Boosted Dominator. OR, better yet, you don't even need Ice as your primary, simply use Power Boost+Total Focus, bam, instantly "stunned" and severly damaged enemy, and thanks to Power Boost and good slotting (and the fact that Acro doesn't help to reduce stun duration so a stun will generally last a bit longer than a hold) you can stun someone long enough to actually FINISH THEM OFF as a Blaster! Especially if it's a Corruptor, Domie, or Stalker! Amazing huh?


Ah, but wait...there's more. On the damage+mez issue, couple */Energy's Power Boost with the Ancillary Pool powers and boom, more mez's, and you once again you don't have to delve into "Ice Blast" to get a hold, meaning you can take the most effective pvp Blaster primaries out there and thankfully, */Energy happens to be one of the BEST pvp secondaries for Blasters anyways, so no harm no foul there eh? There are also a total of THREE Ancillary Pools out there that grant Blasters access to a hold: Electrical, Flame, and Munitions Mastery ALL provide Blasters access to a "more than" 2 second hold. I mean...C'mon guys.


I'm not trying to be a smart airse, but seriously...am I the ONLY one who thinks of this? Or see's this? I doubt that, I just think that for the most part, people are angry and wanna be blind to facts, and instead whine. I just don't understand why though.


Again, I feel that Doms have simply been turned into the "CoV version" of the Blaster. They have a tad more access to controls, but will also in the end do a tad less damage than a Blaster as well. Whereas a Blaster has a little less control, but will do more damage in the end. For me, I see the balance in this, again, many for whatever reason apparently...do not. Odd..

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You do blaster damage, they are not blasters. You are a control primary, my controller holds don't do that type of damage. Your secondary is a blast, my defender blast does not do that type of damage. you know why? because they are not blasters.

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You've been here long enough to know, that the difference between "primary" and "secondary" powers means almost nothing when the dev's go to "balance" correct?


Just because Dom's have a control primary, that doesn't mean their damage should be reduced to defender levels or less just because their damage is in their secondary.

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You wanna play blaster villain play a corrupter so your PRIMARY BLAST will be on par with a BLASTER. Again Dom's are not Blasters and should not hit like them.

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Corruptors are no where near the "Blasters" of CoV. Before this Dominator change, it was basically Stalkers as the CoV Blaster...


Once again, I've seen no water being held here for this arguement, just alot of angry Heroes who think they should be the only ones with the "ace" card of ranged damage. Now, if what some here have said is true, and Dominator damage is currently bugged, then yes, we are all arguing a foolish argument as I'm sure it will be fixed and the damage toned down. What I don't want to hear is people still whining about it, because there's really nothing to whine about.

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It's amazing how such a simple change to a single power takes a set from being fun to being "meh". I've shelved my EM/EA indefinitely.

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Turning TF into a mag 3 stun instead of mag 4 didn't help either.

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Yup.. EM was all about getting Energy Transfer for me. Having that one fast devastating attack made it all worth while. My EM is also perm shelved.

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I have a handful of perma-shelved EMs. There should be a support group or something.

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Totally should be. Or we should have been listened to when the changes were in beta. I'm one of the few people that really likes the ET animation, it's unique to melee toons. However, I'd have preferred it replaced TF and that ET would have remained with the same animation, just with the damage toned down a bit.

That or give Whirling Hands a buff, but I don't honestly see it helping the set a whole lot.

Gotta love it when a set gets over-nerfed.

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Yup...


I don't even take both Total Focus and ET on my Brutes anymore, simply because I can't STAND how long it takes to animate just TWO attacks...it's especially aggrivating on teams...I have kills stolen right out from under me almost all the time thanks to those two powers...it's really bad.


These days, I just skip TF entirely and simply stick with Barrage, EP, BS, and ET. I get decent damage out of the chain, AND I don't have to deal with two long animating attacks...

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/Elec is awful when it comes to survivability. I'd probably even put it behind /Fire. I know on teams with my brute unless I'm in Powersurge I'm pretty much going to be the first to die. Part of this is EM's fault, however, as it doesn't offer swift, consistent mitigation like, say, Footstomp does.

Another issue I find with Elec Armor is that even with Aid Self you're pretty suck. Sure, it's up quite frequently, but because of the long animation I find that usually by the time I'm allowed to attack again I've been nailed for the damage healed plus some.

Even with tough and weave it doesn't get much better. A little bit, but because of the more prevalent exotic damage in end game, it's just not enough.

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Yea, I really think the dev's should do something to seroiusly improve the set.


If endurance drain is to be it's "main" function for damage mitigation...then it definately need to do it BETTER than it currently does.


If not, then they really need to give ELA some form of Dull Pain or something. Or I'd even take something like Integrations level of "healing" in Static Shield or something...and/or up it's resists all around substantially...like 10-15% accross the boards

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It's amazing how such a simple change to a single power takes a set from being fun to being "meh". I've shelved my EM/EA indefinitely.

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Turning TF into a mag 3 stun instead of mag 4 didn't help either.

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Yup.. EM was all about getting Energy Transfer for me. Having that one fast devastating attack made it all worth while. My EM is also perm shelved.

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Yup...

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/Elec lost a lot of the burst damage, but it's a good grinder still. It isn't weak by any means, but the rise of /Energy has made it less of a no-brainer.

[/ QUOTE ] Would you mind expanding on that a little bit? I just made a Ice/Elec(only lvl4) and I mainly solo but if /Elec isn't as good as it used to be I'll reroll(grav/nrg interest me a lot).

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Elec is still good guys, it's just that Energy is finally a "contender" to it now. You won't go wrong with Elec still, so don't worry, you're fine.

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As has a 2 second interrupt, you said you were spines so I am guessing you have a bind to target and lunge. Lunge has a 1.68 second cast time. So you would have to see them, target them and queue the attack in .32 seconds....

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This.


Operator error.

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Brutes aren't Tanks, BTW.

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This^

Brutes are scrappers.. if you want to play a tank then play a tank.

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Yup, and if you really wanna be good at pvp, don't roll a Brute. If you MUST do melee for pvp, I'd advise you to roll a Scrapper or Stalker (hell...even a Tanker as a "disruption toon" w/taunt).

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Fire/Eng question: Wouldn't Power Pushing a boss to a corner, drop Bonfire, and let the imps do their thing be Lol-worthy?

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It sure is lol


Makes killing a boss cake actually haha

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i was talking about the scrapper in the other thread his power sets where katana/regen and sombody said that he normally did really well and i thought that lethal was kinda bad for pvp so i thought id ask

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Ok...that makes a little more sense I guess.


Basically, it doesn't matter what type of damage type you deal anymore in pvp as, for the most part, all damage types are going to darn near be treated equally. The ONLY damage type that really varies is Psi damage, and only against someone who uses a "tier9" power as tier9 powers don't provide protection against psi damage usually.



So yea, Lethal is fine in pvp. Maybe not pve, but yes, in pvp.

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They might be doing near Blaster level damage (I still feel good Blaster builds put out way more) but they suffer from being more susceptible to being "spiked" and killed than Blasters.


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They are not blasters though. The revamp was to make the dom playable in PVE not to OWN RV. The damage was so poor outside of dom that they needed fixed for PVE.

I have done both sides (playing the Dom / fighting the Dom) its the new Flavor of the Month and right now OP in pvp so of course everyone is going to respec and play theirs. So when there is 20 doms and 10 stalkers and a few Corr's as there was in RV this afternoon camping the hero base expect to face my Flavor of the Month. DRONE FTW

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You still have not explained as to "why" you feel that they are "so overpowered" in pvp right now.


You mention them doing tons of "damage" as a source of their "OP"-ness. I show that Blasters can do the same thing, and with more survivability in zones.


Aside from damage, you haven't shown any proof as to "why" dominators are so "omg powerful" man. You are complaining about there being 20 doms in zone and killing things quickly. Get 20 Blasters, see just how quickly they can lay stuff out too, trust me, it'll be just as fast. The only difference is, a Blaster can survive a tad bit longer. Doms do not have increased HP and thus, for the most part, must rely on their "controls" for their damage protection...controls which are relatively "weak" in the new pvp system, especially against a well built or buffed toon. Domies also don't have a "heal" (as well as +HP) power in their Patron Pools, and to add insult to injury that heal also comes with Hibern00b and a pretty darn sweet +defense shield. That one Ancillary Pool alone brings AMPLE survivability to any Blaster in zones.


Basically, in the end, Doms have been turned into "CoV's" version of the Blaster. A "squishy" AT with high damage and moderate control. Yes, moderate, nothing in the new pvp system can be considered "devastating" control anymore. Everything goes from minor to [u]at best[u] moderate. So with this being known (Domies equalling Blasters) tell me, where's the problem you complain about?


You have an overwhelming number of Domies in RV right now, but that's to be expected anytime there is a new "change/buff" to [u]ANY[u] AT. Within the next few weeks it will fade and die down, and you'll be left with a more reasonable number of Domies to deal with. No biggie.


I still don't see this huge imbalance you speak of though, not even close. Domies perform well in pvp now, I think thats a good thing, especially for Villains, who (for the most part) rely on Stalkers as their "main" PvP crutch.



EDIT: Omg...8000 posts w00t lol

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Yeah way over powered. i took 340 pts of damage from fossilize plus got held and Total Focused for another 600 and something. Way OP.

I mean i get my kills and im not saying nerf anything yet but at the rate it was going last night it needs looked at. i mean once they figure out the right fotm build and proper slotting it could be I12 pvp all over again as far as chain holds go. It was happening to me last night.

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Wow. LMFAO! You guys are seriously ridiculous sometimes.


From what I've seen (on both sides of the fence) Dom's are doing better than they "were" definately, but they are no-where NEAR the levels of "OMG BROKEN" performance that many of you claim! I mean wow...talk about blowing things out of propotion. Dom's are still easy easy EASY victims to ANY even "average" spike damage that you wanna throw at them and if your not smart enough to kill a domie "after" hibernate, then you really need to consider just quitting the game altogether, because you absolutely suck.


Dom's are simply finally being CONTENDERS in pvp (not everyone had a beastly perma-dom build prior to this). They might be doing near Blaster level damage (I still feel good Blaster builds put out way more) but they suffer from being more susceptible to being "spiked" and killed than Blasters.


I'm sure, no...POSITIVE, that many/most will disagree, but that's fine, it's the whining I've come to expect here. However, what I'm stating (through my observations/testing so far on both side of the picture) are true. Domies are finally contenders and a threat....I don't find that a problem at all.

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I think Fire/ isn't the best fit because of hot feet and the imps not going well with knockback.

Similarly, with earthquake and ice slick I am not so sure about Earth/ and Ice/.

All of Gravity/, Mind/, and Plant/ don't have anything in particular that would mind the knockback (although maybe if you knock them back into another spawn confused foes can present problems.)

I think it is something you have to consider now that power push is your single best DPA attack, because it has 100% knockback.

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I have a Fire/Energy Dom, and I don't feel this way at all. Fire goes awesome with Energy actually. Ever see what a boss KB'd into a nearby corner turns into when he's pegged there and being burnt to a crisp by 3 angry fire imps? LOL, bascially, he does quite fast.


Using Fire/Energy simply means you have to use your "head" every once in awhile too, do that, and the build is a monster.

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so i know /regen does really well but i always thought lethal+pvp= very bad? then i was reading this thread and became curious Regeneration in pvp? has this changed or something and i didn't know?

:edited:

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What? Your question (if there really even is one..) is very confusing...what does "Regen" have to do with "Lethal" damage?


Explain yourself.

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Regen Scrappers shouldn't be losing to Regen Stalkers in Duels...at least if the builds are equal moneywise.

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Once again. This.

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So far I haven't noticed any endurance issues with my Doms; perhaps the problem is that people never properly slotted them for endurance reduction.

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Amusing story: After playing my Elec for a while yesterday, I though, "Well, actually I think I may have plenty of End. Maybe I'll just remove some of the Enhancements". I was running low in really long AV fights, but I was doing fine popping blues, and never seemed to use End at all normally.

I went and looked in my build, and I have no End Enhancements in any of the attacks. I have three slotted Stamina, and an End in Gravity Distortion because I use it ALL the time as an attack as well as a hold, but I pretty much had nothing to remove.

YMMV, of course. I just thought it was funny.

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Same, my end problems have not been as severe in i15 since the changes, as before. I think alot of it has to do with the fact that while my end costs for attacks "have" gone up, so has my damage...and considerably. This means that I'm outright killing things alot faster too, which means it takes alot "less" attacks to kill the same mob as before. This has caused my end issues, even in the low levels, to be very minimal at best, and since Domination doesn't grant me damage anymore, I've been using it PURELY as a "Boss" button and endurance bar replenisher...and it's working out beautifully