Commando
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Quote:Fix'd.Originally Posted by Fellnair
Lol yes I meant Rad/Psi. If I had read the build I would know that and changed it. -
I would not do it on a scrapper for the low resist numbers. If you want to do elec armor for PvP, do it on a brute or a tank. The numbers are better on the resists. If it's not regen on a scrapper, then SR, IMO, is the next best thing.
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Quote:Originally Posted by ConFlict
Assuming this is for zones. Any well built scrapper that isn't afraid to run is workable in zones. None are as survivable as regin but all of them can preform well.
I want to add that the sr is gimp stuff gets pretty old, defense as it was was op. Anyone who doesn't want to admit it is living in a dream world. A well built sr can pretty much run around zones as it sees fit because defense does work, in particular if built and played properly.
People who had significant problems in i13 with defense were people without solid Global Accuracy in their build. Some people built for rech+, some for HP+, some for dmg+, some for Global Acc+, some for KB prot, etc. If many people did not end up with solid global acc+ and did not have to hit or +acc abilities in their build, they asked Devs for help. This is an old subject. Those of us who had and used defense-based toons and PvP'd a whole lot with them during that time, and loss their share of matches, know all too well that in i13 Resists was still > defense when the toons had solid global acc+ in their build.
I agree that elusivity needs to be revisited.
Having said all that, SR would be my choice if I did not go with Regen. Then again, if I wanted a defense based toon, I would just roll a VEAT now. -
If you have not invested heavily into building this yet, I would respectfully suggest you still reconsider investing into a defense-based toon, instead of a regen (if you want a scrapper) or a resists (if you want a brute or tank) toon. With the hit to elusivity, which I hope they restore some part of what they took away, I don't think we can rely on defense again, not yet.
I would strongly suggest you move over to a resists-based toon for brute or tank, and a regen for scrappers.
If you really want a defense based toon, I would suggest a)Ice, for its heal, its end drain power, defense debuffs resists, and hibernate. b) SR, and c) a NW (especially for GR) or Fort or a Bane, with preference for the NW and Fort over the other VEATS. -
Quote:I am almost done with mine. But I am thinking of taking tough instead of phase. With tough, I can get some great resist numbers, and in my build, still get 34 second recharge on energize (before DR). Dont get me wrong, I see the benefits of phase also, but wonder of the loss of the resists, which according to the numbers I posted above. seem to be handy too.Originally Posted by Xanatos
An Elec/SS/Earth can be beastly. Your attacks will mostly be ranged (Hurl/Fossilize/Stone Prison.) Proc them up & throw KO Blow into the mix and you have an awesome offensive character.
I'd go Speed/Leaping/Fitness/Concealment for powerpools. -
Quote:I think you can have a solid tanker built as a tauntbot, and which should hold his/her own in duels. Don't think there are a whole bunch of squishies who would want to play for the win vs elec/SS/earth. You can have some great resists numbers and when you get your HPs into the 2500 range, or really close, they can be a bit hard to take down. You can make an elec/ss tank reach around 80% resists vs everything except toxic and negative energy, which you could get around a decent 60%ish BEFORE DR. Of course, keep in mind, your opponent's dmg is also hit by DR, unless you take into consideration procs, but that still makes you a bit tough to take down. I don't even think a Psi/EM blaster would want to pay a kiting match vs elec/ss/earth. Taunt hurts their range and you can kite them too. If they get close, they risk a few things, a)getting zapped b)getting KO blow'd , or, if you take it, c) getting hit with flurry for some nasty damage even with no proc's. If you take quicksand, if you fit it in your build, that also buys you some time to get at them until they run off the patch.Originally Posted by Firaga_Machina
I have an Elec/SS at 50 already and I know I want his second build to be a pvp build. My question is would it be worth making a build focused on dueling? Or would I be beating my head against a wall. Would he be better off being built as a taunt bot for teams? Thanks in advance.
Don't worry about MM's, unless you fight them in a cage match or perhaps the office map. The problem for MM's is they can't force wins many times. If they get too aggressive and careless, they can wind up outside of BG mode and find themselves in a bit of trouble.
I would say, try it. It's a matter of just playing something you like and trying PvP out. As time goes on, you might end up playing something else and your likes/dislikes will vary. -
Quote:Absolutely not at all. Ice is not the squishiest because it is all defense and not resist. In PvE, defense > resist in many, if not most, of the time. You do not need to soft cap defense in an Ice/ tank either, especially Ice/SS. With a defense at only 37% you can do great things, tanking +4s, face Nemesis, and even do STF (STF is mostly about insps management and buffs since there is no single tank that can handle LR without help from insps or buffs). /SS has a good tools to mitigate, especially after Foot Stomp.Originally Posted by SilverBullet_NA
Chilling Embrace is must for an ice tank and you definitely need tough. Keep in mind ice is squishy/weakest tank set there is thanks in part to its lack of resistance, without tough a single warhulk with veng can face plant you or unlucky back to back hit from an AV.
You won't miss Icicles, Foot Stomp (and even a well positioned Sands of Mu) and team mates will take care of critters. For taunting, you got taunt.
Believe me, Aid Self instead of Weave, is a great, if not the best decision you can make for an Ice/ tank, unless you play Ice/Dark. You have great defenses already and since you are not getting hit plenty, you can pull off Aid Self for cases when you need it. In defense based toons, Aid Self is a great option. Widows, SR, Ice, even Shield go well with Aid Self.
My Ice/SS tank has about 37% defense and is a superior performer when tanking. Ice/, IMO, can compete with any set for the best self-sufficient primary out there.
Warhulk one shotting you? You serious? Not from full health, not even from 75%. Against Nemesis, which I do at +3-+4s, the only thing which might be a crutch are the burn patches, which I simply step away from and pull Hoarfrost, if hurt, or Aid-Self. But Ice/ tankers have to be hit hard and very fast in order not to be able to hit Hib.
Look, maybe it's my build or my skills (and I humbly say I am not trying to be pretentious) but I find Ice/ is competing for the top spot in PvE as a primary. It is a great defense based toon, Hibernate is just AWESOME, a self-heal, synchs really well with Aid-Self since you need to avoid being uninterrupted and defense is great at that, unlike resistance, you have all the endurance you could want...
For Ice/SS, think of it this way, at 37% defense, that is a solid number to have, when Hoarfrost is not available and Hib is not available either, and somethings are getting through by luck of the draw, having Aid-Self is a lot better than having weave. Whatever is getting through weave needs mitigation. Even my Widows, who make all hero defense based toons envy at the level of defense they achieve, do very well with Aid-Self in the cases when the dmg gets through, if dmg gets through their defenses, Weave is not going to do much either.
Whatever you prefer, so be it, but if you pick Weave, instead of Aid Self, understand that it is not a fact that it is better than Aid Self on a defense based toon. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Predatoric
Not even in the slightest even with slow enhancements?
Wow thats surprising, I was expecting to have to sacrifice damage in order to get a decent slow now but the fact its not working at all its a very big letdown.
Slows were broken pre i13. Melee, especially were in big trouble with slows, unless you were an Ice/ tanker or a stalker. Slows do not stack like they used to. i13 took care of that. However no one is immune to movement slows. I have been slowed (movement, and yes, super speed slowed) on my Ice/ tanker in RV, something which I find very odd. There are ways to slow people's movement. I think this issue will be fixed also, at least for Ice/ as it makes no sense why an Ice/ tanker will be movement slowed. So, like black barrier said, there are ways to slow people, and yes, you can still slow peoples recharge. -
I love Ice/ tankers. I have 3 lvl 50 Ice/ tankers, and for PvE, IMO, they are at the top. Self sufficient set and defense based. Defense is better than resist in many cases, if not most, than Resists based primaries. Having said that, go for Aid Self instead of tough and weave. You are a defense based toon, you will get to use, if you need it, Aid Self, a lot more reliably than resists toons. Why? Because you are not getting hit all the time, and Aid self is a great damage mitigation tool when dmg does get you and hoar frost is down. I use Aid Self before I use Hoarfrost, I use Hoarfrost if it gets bad, and I only use Hibernate if those two options just cant save me, and I take thow whole 30 sec's. In that time, those two other powers have recharged already or close enough. I only took tough and weave on my Ice/Dark because of the self heal in dark which recharges so fast. My Ice/Dark > Ice/SS in survivability.
Another suggetion, please place Frozen Armore as your very first power. Also, take Wet Ice as soon as it is available, at lvl 8, if I am not mistaken. I do not use Chilling Embrace on my Ice/ tanker at all. I use taunt to keep aggro and manage it. I also rely on the solid defense my Ice/SS has to cover me. The KD effects of SS also help. If you do take Chilling Embrace, you can place that later in your build, and not as early as you have it in your Mids.
That's it for now, since I am writing w/out too much time available. Enjoy Ice/ -
Here are a few suggestions to improve, along with comments on what was, what is, and what could be. So, with respect and a sincere desire to just improve on what we may have, and expecting respect in our interaction in the forum, here I go.
Changes to PVP
I do not agree with many changes hereby proposed by Bitter, and I do agree with the spirit of some. Here are my suggestions:
PvP Merits:
Just increase the drop rate significantly, independent of Rep. There is nothing to lose here by doing this. The players involved in PvP are reduced even more already, and, collectively, that puts a dent in the drop rates as well. It's too low as it is now.
Damage tier calculations:
No, I don't want it to be solely by tier, due to some zones which differ in levels. Boost Ice blast dmg a bit more.
Global Resists--
Eliminate the resists which are added by the zone or which are added by the arena. If the squishies take their resist shields, fine, otherwise they should not have any added resists at all.
Diminished Returns:
I would say to get rid of it, but for the sake of helping defense based toons able to compete better in PvP, cap the To Hit value any given power may grant and cap the Global accuracy as well. Resists, in PvP, has a major trump over Defense in PvP and with the reduction of Elusivity it's taken quite the toll. Even when i13 first came out, defense vs resist toons who had great global acc and some sort of to hit buff powers, those defense-based toons were fighting an uphill battle.
Buffs:
Please remove the cap placed on the effectiveness buffs have. Buffs should function as intended. This is also in harmony with removing the global resistances added by the game. Make Vengeance unusable in zones, just like Ouros portal.
Elusivity--
This was a brilliant and great mechanism for defense-based toons. In i13 this was only a problem when toons did not have enough global accuracy. People either built their toons for as much recharge, or +global dmg, or +health, or kb protection, or +global accuracy, etc. Having played and watched fights of defense-based toons vs other types. I know that defense-toons who lost or had a very difficult fight faced toons with solid global accuracy in their builds. I know blasters with great global accuracy who were beating consistently, in i13 Forts and other defense based toons because of their builds, and spines/regen scrappers who were beating Forts as well. Since those players had great accuracy and had great tools to mitigate for the incoming damg and the Forts did not have damg mitigation tools to save them from defeat. Let’s not even talk about SS/resist based builds who faced vs defense based toons. That was too easy. I think the Devs should not have fixed people’s problem with defense by giving the solution to them on a platter. Players should have a choice of what they want in their build and pay the price for their weak side. For example: If you pack a lot of KB prot and dmg buff from procs or other means and you end up with not enough global accuracy, then when that player faces someone with very good defense, he has to live with the consequences and try to get by with what he has. The examples may change but I hope the point is made that players should figure what they want from their builds and if some things were left out willingly, don’t ask the Devs for providence. If the Elusivity is not restored fully to what it was in i13, then add at least half of the amount nerfed after i13, or cap the global accuracy and to hit bonuses possible.
Stalkers-
This is a pain. For PvP balance issues this whole AT is a problem. On the one hand, they are (as of now) impossible to see, unless the stalkers attack or enter an area in which dmg will unhide them, and they do a devastating amount of UNRESISTED dmg from either critical hits or AS. On the other hand, while being visible, their survivability is dubious. This, IMO, was a mistake to bring to the game and now the matter is a tough one of what to do with it. 3-4 Spines stalkers coordinate one target, while completely unseen, Crit Impale, target gone, and move on to next. How to counter that? Well, exiting the zone is a great way to do it. Gone Rogue will have Stalkers on both sides and have VEATS on both sides. VEATS, who have higher perception cap, will be sought for that perception, among other things. This will turn VEATS into prime targets for the stalkers, all of them. Gone Rogue might turn into VEATS Gone… Farmed. Who knows? So, this is a matter for us to wait and see how GR will affect this AT.
Blasters--
Fix the Proc or change the utility of the Proc completely if you can not fix it. We all know the Proc, which every Psy blaster uses (or most of them) is broken. Fix or change it.
Help Ice Blasts, and help every other Blast sets so their animation, activation, secondary effects, and dmg can compete with each other, at least at a closer distance from each other.
Dominators and controllers--
Here’s another difficult issue, to fight statues or not. I feel that Doms were so powerful pre i13 that only pure, raw and powerful dmg and other controllers and dominators could compete with them, especially the case with Mind/ doms. This is also why Fortunatas were so good vs most, if not all controllers/dominators, they had the dmg and holds of their own and were protected from repel, and solid defense, especially vs Psy. Props to Guild Wars which has no hold type powers at all in their PvP. This issue is another difficult one to tackle for the sake of PvP balance. For the sakes of not fighting statues in PvP, the change made in i13 is very reasonable. If holds go back to what they were pre i13, then make powers which protect from being Mez'd even more powerful, increase their protection 4-5 times the current Mag or just render them immune from holds in PvP. Make it really difficult to be able to fight statues or do not let it be at all. Perhaps, and this is as far as I would like to compromise, make all hold powers become like sleep powers, any damage at all will free you from the hold and all holds then become suppressed for 20 seconds or more. I am in favor of not fighting statues at all nor of having a battle of break frees, which was the issue the majority of the time in pre i13 PvP.
Domination--
What to do about this? Dominators already have a great dmg boost given by the devs. I also do not want a break free fight nor a fight vs statue. In PvE, this is a great tool, but in PvP it is clear it should not work the way it works in PvE. I would suggest giving Domination, for PvP, a different utility. Have Domination grant a great recovery rate for Dominators in PvP, so much so that it can overcome recovery debuffs. Having said that, increase the base recharge so it is not possible at all, even w/out DR, to have it permanent or give it a forced cool down time of 2 minutes, like you give phase.
Containment--
For practical purposes, does it exist anymore? Give controllers a dmg boost, like the ones given to dominators. Containment is practically non-existent in PvP.
Defenders--
No hibernate in their Epic pools, no unresisted debuffs/buffs, sub-standard dmg. My suggestion: significantly increase the strengths of their debuffs/buffs by 20 percent or give their unresisted debuffs/buffs back, or, make their buffs irresistible and allow them to ignore DR, if DR is not removed. ***Another alternative: if you are under the effect of a Defender debuff, a Defender’s dmg vs you increases dramatically or doubles. Similar to what containment used to be for controllers.***
Melee--
In i13, those who thought Melee was LOL at PvP and underestimated it, became the objects of LOL in the arena. Travel suppression definitely did help with that. Then came the nerf to the dmg melee toons were dishing out, and also came the introduction of no travel suppression in Arena. No range toon or hardly any will choose travel suppression when fighting a melee toon. Range vs melee is also a very difficult issue for any game developers for PvP balance. It’s easy to swing the balance too much in favor of one side or the other. It becomes a bigger problem, for melee, when the vast majority of people decide to abandon playing melee consistently thereby impairing their judgment when it comes time to suggest objective solutions for the pvp balance problem.
My suggestions to help melee overcome the disadvantage they have right now are:
a. Keep the range debuff on Taunt. Make any melee attack dealt by melee toons suppress the travel of any toon they hit for 2-3 seconds, this is in addition to the suppression all toons have when they attack. The melee attack will suppress travel regardless of the buffs that opponent has. It’s bad enough squishies have those global resist added. Make the melee attack count even more now. Or…
b. Keep the range debuff on Taunt. Make the speed of all melee toons significantly faster than range toons. So, cap the speed of range toons, if you have to in order to reach this objective. Or…
c. Make Taunt a power which suppresses the travel of any range toon for 2-3 seconds as well as keep the range debuff on it.
The activation and animation time of fossilize is long enough for me to justify the greater dmg output than the other range attacks. Given the resists and range advantage squishies have, I was never agreeing to debuff the dmg of any range attack given to melee toons, while at the same time introducing the no travel suppression option in arena. If the range dmg is debuffed more, then have the game introduce a -resist debuff on all range toons vs melee attacks from melee toons of 25% - 35% at the same time as making melee dmg from melee toon suppress all travel for 2-3 seconds.
VEATS--
If global resists are still on the game, then unresisted criticals for Banes and NWs. Add elusivity to any and all powers which grant defense. Increase base Fort dmg by half of what was nerfed. -
Changes to PVP
I do not agree with many changes hereby proposed, and I do agree with the spirit of some. Here are my suggestions:
PvP Merits:
Just increase the drop rate significantly, independent of Rep. There is nothing to lose here by doing this. The players involved in PvP are reduced even more already, and, collectively, that puts a dent in the drop rates as well. It's too low as it is now.
Damage tier calculations:
No, I don't want it to be strictly by tier, due to some zones which differ in levels. Boost Ice blast dmg a bit more.
Global Resists--
Eliminate the resists which are added by the zone or which are added by the arena. If the squishies take their resist shields, fine, otherwise they should not have any added resists at all.
Diminished Returns:
I would say to get rid of it, but for the sake of helping defense based toons able to compete better in PvP, cap the To Hit value any given power may grant and cap the Global accuracy as well. Resists, in PvP, has a major trump over Defense in PvP and with the reduction of Elusivity it's taken quite the toll. Even when i13 first came out, defense vs resist toons who had great global acc and some sort of to hit buff powers, those defense-based toons were fighting an uphill battle.
Buffs:
Please remove the cap placed on the effectiveness buffs have. Buffs should function as intended. This is also in harmony with removing the global resistances added by the game. Make Vengeance unusable in zones, just like Ouros portal.
Elusivity--
This was a brilliant and great mechanism for defense-based toons. In i13 this was only a problem when toons did not have enough global accuracy. People either built their toons for as much recharge, or +global dmg, or +health, or kb protection, or +global accuracy, etc. Having played and watched fights of defense-based toons vs other types. I know that defense-toons who lost or had a very difficult fight faced toons with solid global accuracy in their builds. I know blasters with great global accuracy who were beating consistently, in i13 Forts and other defense based toons because of their builds, and spines/regen scrappers who were beating Forts as well. Since those players had great accuracy and had great tools to mitigate for the incoming damg and the Forts did not have damg mitigation tools to save them from defeat. Let’s not even talk about SS/resist based builds who faced vs defense based toons. That was too easy. I think the Devs should not have fixed people’s problem with defense by giving the solution to them on a platter. Players should have a choice of what they want in their build and pay the price for their weak side. For example: If you pack a lot of KB prot and dmg buff from procs or other means and you end up with not enough global accuracy, then when that player faces someone with very good defense, he has to live with the consequences and try to get by with what he has. The examples may change but I hope the point is made that players should figure what they want from their builds and if some things were left out willingly, don’t ask the Devs for providence. If the Elusivity is not restored fully to what it was in i13, then add at least half of the amount nerfed after i13, or cap the global accuracy and to hit bonuses possible.
Stalkers-
This is a pain. For PvP balance issues this whole AT is a problem. On the one hand, they are (as of now) impossible to see, unless the stalkers attack or enter an area in which dmg will unhide them, and they do a devastating amount of UNRESISTED dmg from either critical hits or AS. On the other hand, while being visible, their survivability is dubious. This, IMO, was a mistake to bring to the game and now the matter is a tough one of what to do with it. 3-4 Spines stalkers coordinate one target, while completely unseen, Crit Impale, target gone, and move on to next. How to counter that? Well, exiting the zone is a great way to do it. Gone Rogue will have Stalkers on both sides and have VEATS on both sides. VEATS, who have higher perception cap, will be sought for that perception, among other things. This will turn VEATS into prime targets for the stalkers, all of them. Gone Rogue might turn into VEATS Gone… Farmed. Who knows?
Blasters--
Fix the Proc or change the utility of the Proc completely if you can not fix it. We all know the Proc, which every Psy blaster uses (or most of them) is broken. Fix or change it.
Help Ice Blasts, and help every other Blast sets so their animation, activation, secondary effects, and dmg can compete with each other, at least at a closer distance from each other.
Dominators and controllers--
Here’s another difficult issue, to fight statues or not. I feel that Doms were so powerful pre i13 that only pure, raw and powerful dmg and other controllers and dominators could compete with them, especially the case with Mind/ doms. This is also why Fortunatas were so good vs most, if not all controllers/dominators, they had the dmg and holds of their own and were protected from repel, and solid defense, especially vs Psy. Props to Guild Wars which has no hold type powers at all in their PvP. This issue is another difficult one to tackle for the sake of PvP balance. For the sakes of not fighting statues in PvP, the change made in i13 is very reasonable. If holds go back to what they were pre i13, then make powers which protect from being Mez'd even more powerful, increase their protection 4-5 times the current Mag or just render them immune from holds in PvP. Make it really difficult to be able to fight statues or do not let it be at all. Perhaps, and this is as far as I would like to compromise, make all hold powers become like sleep powers, any damage at all will free you from the hold and all holds then become suppressed for 20 seconds or more. I am in favor of not fighting statues at all nor of having a battle of break frees, which was the issue the majority of the time in pre i13 PvP.
Domination--
What to do about this? Dominators already have a great dmg boost given by the devs. I also do not want a break free fight nor a fight vs statue. In PvE, this is a great tool, but in PvP it is clear it should not work the way it works in PvE. I would suggest giving Domination, for PvP, a different utility. Have Domination grant a great recovery rate for Dominators in PvP, so much so that it can overcome recovery debuffs. Having said that, increase the base recharge so it is not possible at all, even w/out DR, to have it permanent or give it a forced cool down time of 2 minutes, like you give phase.
Containment--
For practical purposes, does it exist anymore? Give controllers a dmg boost, like the ones given to dominators. Containment is practically non-existent in PvP.
Defenders--
No hibernate in their Epic pools, no unresisted debuffs/buffs, sub-standard dmg. My suggestion: significantly increase the strengths of their debuffs/buffs by 20 percent or give their unresisted debuffs/buffs back, or, make their buffs irresistible and allow them to ignore DR, if DR is not removed. Another alternative: if you are under the effect of a Defender debuff, a Defender’s dmg vs you increases dramatically or doubles. Similar to what containment used to be for controllers.
Melee--
In i13, those who thought Melee was LOL at PvP and underestimated it, became the objects of LOL in the arena. Travel suppression definitely did help with that. Then came the nerf to the dmg melee toons were dishing out, and also came the introduction of no travel suppression in Arena. No range toon or hardly any will choose travel suppression when fighting a melee toon. Range vs melee is also a very difficult issue for any game developers for PvP balance. It’s easy to swing the balance too much in favor of one side or the other. It becomes a bigger problem, for melee, when the vast majority of people decide to abandon playing melee consistently thereby impairing their judgment when it comes time to suggest objective solutions for the pvp balance problem.
My suggestions to help melee overcome the disadvantage they have right now are:
a. Keep the range debuff on Taunt. Make any melee attack dealt by melee toons suppress the travel of any toon they hit for 2-3 seconds, this is in addition to the suppression all toons have when they attack. The melee attack will suppress travel regardless of the buffs that opponent has. It’s bad enough squishies have those global resist added. Make the melee attack count even more now. Or…
b. Keep the range debuff on Taunt. Make the speed of all melee toons significantly faster than range toons. So, cap the speed of range toons, if you have to in order to reach this objective. Or…
c. Make Taunt a power which suppresses the travel of any range toon for 2-3 seconds as well as keep the range debuff on it.
The activation and animation time of fossilize is long enough for me to justify the greater dmg output than the other range attacks. Given the resists and range advantage squishies have, I was never agreeing to debuff the dmg of any range attack given to melee toons, while at the same time introducing the no travel suppression option in arena. If the range dmg is debuffed more, then have the game introduce a -resist debuff on all range toons vs melee attacks from melee toons of 25% - 35% at the same time as making melee dmg from melee toon suppress all travel for 2-3 seconds.
VEATS--
Unresisted criticals for Banes and NWs. Add elusivity to any and all powers which grant defense. Increase base Fort dmg by half of what was nerfed. -
Quote:Email support if you can not call them, right now, if you have not done so. Also, do you know if the payment went through?Originally Posted by NictusJones
i tryed again today and i have made sure i have installed it all right and i have so i really dont understand why i cant even get past the log in screen?
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Quote:But I PvP with VEATS, a lot more than with Stalkers. This is especially true before i14 :-) I love my NW. Now, what I was saying about VEATS being seen: As it is now, they have a major problem. They are more easily seen now than stalkers, and they do not hibernate+phase , then get out. They might phase but we know phase is not a safe anymore.Originally Posted by Spizzie
A Stalker that's sitting next to an enemy VEAT is a bad Stalker.* Also, if a WP Stalker takes Tactics, then that means it gave up either the Fitness, Concealement, Leaping, or Speed pools to get the Leadership pool. I doubt it would give up Stealth, or else it's a REALLY bad Stalker. Also doubt it's giving up Speed, as it's a necessity. So it'd probably give up Leaping or Fitness, making its mobility teh gimpzors or causing it to have poor end management. If I HAD to give up one, I'd probably give up Fitness just because a Stalker shouldn't be in prolonged fights anyway. But I would rather Fitness.
Point being, VEATS are going to be a big disruptor to Stalkers in zones. But I hope Commando doesn't listen to us so I can ruin him with my Bane and/or Fort once GR comes out.
*Unless that VEAT isn't at the perception cap. Which it should be after GR. -
Quote:Not sure about this. Warburg, as it is, is not very popular, the free-for-all zone of the game has not been hot at all since 2006-2007, I believe.Originally Posted by Slax
RV should be made into a coop-freefire zone so hero/villian balance won't matter.
Just my $.02. -
Quote:Reducing the elusivity level was not needed as much as people building their toons with enough global accuracy. Defense based toons would still be facing a very challenging task vs toons with high global acc or vs resist based toons (in case of melee), and defense debuffs.Originally Posted by Daemodand
Forts needed theirs removed maybe, but 10 points of Elusivity on SR does nothing. But that's an argument for a different thread.
The Webnades for Brutes thing is a good point. But does that outweigh the big survivability advantage Tanks enjoy? It'll be interesting to see how that plays out.
And yes, I'll probably respec my Bane and NW for max perception to smack around some nooby Stalkers. Heck, even my SR Scrapper can teach nub Stalkers that their stealth is not 100% reliable. VEATs vs. Stalkers is going to be very interesting times.
Now, reducing the elusivity level for Forts AND their dmg... they took a back seat for sure. I still like tanks bag of HP's and high base numbers. I frankly think Fossilize is still not broken, since it's really useful to have some range attack that keeps the squishies in-check. In fact, I would say that if you take away all of the squishies base resists then we can talk lowering the dmg of range attacks from tankers and brutes. Until then, no. Melee already face enough of a challenge battling squishies. -
Quote:Why? Stalkers as of right now will see a NW from further away. In fact teams will see NWs from far with +percept. Unless changes are coming to the stealth of stalkers, I don't see this.Originally Posted by Daemodand
VEAT vs. Stalker seems to be the fight everyone is eager for, and for good reason.
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Quote:True. That will still apply.Originally Posted by DaveMebs
Pretty sure you can still only buy IOs from the side you start on, due to technical problems. So a stalker will still need to go redside to hit up the market.
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Quote:So how many other people, besides me, have fought Malta's Gunslingers ?Originally Posted by Talionis
I too would've been in the camp of making Dual Pistols a Scrapper primary. I never saw a big difference between it and Spines.
Pistols really are only good at short range, so it could've made sense, and it would've be doable by concept.
But I do understand why they went with the normal route of making it a blast set. -
Quote:That, exactly. Also, again, there is no argument in Auras vs Taunt power. Really there has never been a great case to say the Aura is a replacement. What can be argued is that those auras help manage aggro. Taunt, the power, is very specific. A blaster will not steal aggro from critters I am taunting. We can prove it anytime. Test server or freedom, you decide.Originally Posted by New Dawn
Good players are good players. If you think having an Earth/Rad or something in a team makes better players out of good players then I fail to see your logic. Rads provide mitigation. Tankers provide mitigation.
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Quote:I agree with Dave_P on the idea of how the team plays the scenario. The point I will make is the following: method chosen to handle critters. Some methods are based on the tank pulling and holding aggro, or tanks jumping in and holding aggro. Some methods of handling critters may involve something totally different. Superteams are just one of many examples (fire/rad trollers, for example). I will not say there is a best way, especially for PUGs. I don't believe there is a best way for everything.Originally Posted by dave_p
You are not disagreeing with me; you are once again entirely missing my point. It doesn't matter if brutes steal a bit of aggro from tanks, and in fact, brutes should *want* to. Hell, I hope tanks don't Taunt when I bring my brute over blue-side so I can build my fury bar all the faster or I'll start picking on new spawns. There are very few tasks in the game (again, prolly only the STF on blue-side, and only the end fight at that) that *might* require the tank to hold all the aggro all the time.
As for any team that requires the tank to hold all the aggro, I'll likely be quitting those before I'm even felt unwelcome regardless of the AT I'm playing. If I'm tanking, I'll constantly be moving ahead of the pack to grab new spawns, which will no doubt cause protests, as if a decent team won't have the situation fully in control by the time I leave (yes, I stay behind to babysit the crappy teams, which is exactly what you're doing at that point). If I'm a scrapper (or brute) and see the tanker lollygagging with the last minion w/a sliver of life left, I'll leap on ahead and gather my own damn group. If I'm a controller... well, I don't really need a team, but I'll let you all tag along anyway.
If I'm on my Fire blaster? Sure I follow the tank and of course it's best if it keeps aggro off of me. Yes, it's a waste of time for me to have to kill a stray mob coming for me interrupting my AoE chain, but few blasters have gapless AoE chains anyway--I think I can afford an odd Blaze to finish something off. Or, hey, how about I jump over the pack to let the peeled aggro run back through the tank? Is it really that difficult for each toon to manage their own aggro w/o sacrificing much, if any, efficiency?
Seriously, the main divide seems to be players who want the tanks to micromanage every bit of aggro in this game, which to me is a horribly inefficient way to play. Jump in, soak the alpha, get a tight grouping, when you see the mobs melt away, jump to the next spawn, repeat. If you enjoy playing the game with picture perfect tactics and well formed roles for each toon, more power to you. I'd rather kill more things, faster.
When I wrote in this thread, I should have written I was approaching the issue with the method of tank gaining, holding, and managing aggro, to take care of critters. What I wrote does not apply at all when teams are picking different methods to handle critters.
Heck, I am in Repeat Offenders, and when we roll, how we used Tanks are perhaps best explained by the name of one of our many SGs, 'Tanks for Nothing'. RO is just another level of play alltogether. -
Quote:What's also very true is that for good players, using 'Taunt' along with any other tools makes it even better. Like I said, for gaining, holding, and managing aggro, whatever can be done without 'Taunt', I believe it can be done even better along with 'Taunt'. That's why I don't argue too much about Auras vs Taunt.Originally Posted by Jeminiks
This is absolutely true for mediocre players. On a team of people only mildly experience and not really pushing the edge of what their characters are capable of doing, Taunt is indeed an excellent power.
Also, like the poster above said, some nasty pwning blasters are capable of overaggroing even the tanks with the best auras. 'Taunt' works a bit different, especially well slotted. -
Quote:Ice/ primary is still a quite solid choice and I would put it up there with the best of them. Yes, I believe Ice can compete with any set for the best, self sustained and self-sufficient, set for pure tanking.Originally Posted by DreamingWolf
Hey guys! I'm somewhat new to CoH, and what I'm really looking for in the game is a pure tank. I don't care about damage, I just want to be able to take it like a wall.
That being said, I don't know what the hell to go with, so I'd appreciate any suggestions you guys might have. So, thanks ahead of time!!
As it is now, defense is still way good in PvE, perhaps better than resistance for PvE.
Off the top of my head, some of the tools Ice has which lets it be an excellent self-sufficient tanker are:
Defense based
A great Slow and a solid dmg reducing aura (slows+pure dmg debuff)
Endurance draining/gain (might not stop baddies but certainly slow them down when they hit no endurance)
Hoarfrost
Practically immune to slows and caltrops (KoA at lvl 53-54... seen them kill Invul tankers by sheer time and attrition with those nasty caltrops and then the incoming dmg since they are sitting ducks)
Hibernate (while not elude or some other cool tier 9; still a great tool to survive)
Because it is a defense based set, in goes really well with Aid-Self since your chances to execute it uninterrupted go up considerably.
I have my best Ice/ tanker, he is an Ice/Dark combination and is simply as good as any other tanker combination that can claim to be the best self-sufficient combo. With a heal that is there in 3-4 seconds recharge time and heals for 398 pts a pop, plus to-hit debuffs, plus a nice acc and dmg tool, which vs groups, is way better than Build-up... Ice/Dark fits tough and weave in the build and not sacrifice a thing for an additional heal like aid self. My ice/em takes aid self but for tanking some tough scenarios, he has to ditch tough/weave for a more useful aid self in his defense-based build.
Ice/Dark can become the top or tie with the top spot as the best self-sufficient tanker combination. Gloomy-Frost is the name of my Ice/Dark and he is on Freedom server.
**Self-sufficient-- able to perform with excellence as a tanker with no buffs/heals or help from other ATs or powers in team.** -
Quote:I am old school and still a firm believer that taunt on a tank makes him/her better. Blasters, high dmg, heavy AoE, and other effects can and will overcome agro auras like icicles, invincibility, and mud pots, to name a few. Taunt, the power does a better job of gaining and retaining aggro AND if cases, when a heavy dmg blaster is doing an excellent job of drawing aggro because he/she is pwning face, then I am glad to have "Taunt", press it, and draw that group of runaways back to me and away from squishies.Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
I see a lot of Tanks without taunt. I play brutes mainly, have a couple 50 tanks, and am starting to Blast a lot.
I have a thoughtful reason why they do need taunt. It is based on team synergy, and letting blasters/scrappers kill fast and efficiently while the tank sponges up agro. I could go into doctoral length discussion on that type of blue side tactic, but nuff said.
Does anyone have a thoughtfuul reason tanks do not need taunt?
I don't even bother with the arguments that this or that aura or effect does a great job of aggroing. The way I see it, whatever you can do to gain and hold aggro, which does not involve using "Taunt", you can do better by having 'Taunt' and using it along with it.
Pulling from a distance with Taunt is also tactically more sound to do in some situations.
My two cents.
Have fun. -
Quote:Originally Posted by black_barrier
the io drop rate for npcs is higher in pvp zones.
people are rarely attracted by this.
I second what he said about the drop rates for NPCs. Also, if any ideas from other games were to be transferred or copied in some form to CoX, I hope it is from Guild Wars and not from Aion. I played, and still do Aion since closed beta and I am currently letting that account expire and I will not renew. For PvE, Aion has nothing on CoX. However, IMO, the game with the best PvP out there is Guild Wars.
The concept of competitive missions is awesome. The concept of Alliance Battles is excellent. I would like to see zone PvP changed so there are an equal number of players on both sides, and the server engine would pick at random who joins, similar to Random Arenas in Guild Wars. Yet, there woud be mutiple instances of zone PvP going on at once. So if you dont get on in one run, you would join another run that starts, say 2-3 minutes after. The fighting in the PvP zone would be timed and would conclude once the timer reaches 0. THe game would handout scores to each side based on kills and/or objectives reached in the zone.
Frankly, Guild Wars' PvP is so so so popular and active 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. There has to be a reason. I love a vast amount of aspects from Guild Wars PvP. If any game has to teach other MMOs about handling PvP , that is the game. -
[QUOTE=Necromatic;2438682]Quote:That is a good question. Stormies are not an SS bane at all, and post i13, stormies, IMO, are or should be fighting an uphill battle, even if dark blast is or is not the asault set. Since i13 the toggle dropping due to mezzes, is simple too annoying. And I will wait to mez you after I see hurricane on and immediately move in. If the toon has solid global acc bonus, Rage, or double rage, and FA, stormies are not or should not be that much of a problem.Originally Posted by AresSupreme
Is this before or after I13?
Also, if taunted, you will have to risk getting KOB in the face , and that extra accurate attack will drop your offensive toggles as well. From range, a well timed mez will do nicely too, then u got KOB to worry about or a very nasty flurry with rage double stacked, or both ! That 3 hit chain, fossilize, KOB (even nastier with procs), flurry will most likely make you hit hib, and if you are defender, probably phase, or just wipe you out right there.