_Norton_

I'm trying to work out which secondary to take when I make my thug MM. Can anyone tell me what level of mez protection is provided by the Traps FF generator and the forcefields' dispersion bubble, please?

thanks in advance

I note with interest that, in a discussion about villain vs hero balance, there has not been a single mention of Dominators.

No analysis of balance issues can be complete without taking into account the well established issues Dominators have in PvP. I don't intend to go into detail about the various Dominator issues here, it's been covered in depth elsewhere and anyone interested can easily find very well informed discussions, particularly on the US boards.

The important point here is that the devs have themselves acknowledged that Dominators need a boost in PvP and have said they will introduce changes in future with this is mind. So the imbalance is not a ‘myth’.

There certainly are skill differences between villain and hero teams, and I would agree that the top teams are very much better at PvP than a casual pick up group could ever hope to be, and that the top teams are by and large hero teams.

However, this is far from the whole picture, and to say that the ENTIRE difference between heroes and villains is down to skill, and that fundamental imbalances in game mechanics play no part or do not exist, is to deny that Dominators (for example) are underpowered in PvP, which is to fly in the face of the opinion held by the devs themselves. And if the villain control AT is underpowered it follows that villains must logically be underpowered as a whole, relative to heroes.

There are other balance issues too, particularly where arena matches are concerned. For example, Masterminds are disadvantaged due to having to spend considerable time summoning and buffing pets before they can reach full effectiveness. This issue has also been acknowledged by the developers and changes to the mechanics have been promised to rectify this issue, too.

I’m sure others can think of still more examples. But my point is not to create an exhaustive list of imbalances, but to point out that imbalances in the game mechanics between villains and heroes do exist, have been recognised by the people who actually made the game, and are slated for a fix in the not to distant future. To say that it’s all a myth is therefore demonstrably incorrect.

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I'm looking into starting a new PvP toon, though a Villain this time. After doing my troller, earth/rad, to 42, I just want another evil version of a troller, plus much more damage. >8 snip >8

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If you think you will be doing more damage in PvP with a dominator than with a controller you are in for a rude awakening, I'm afraid. Currently most controller builds, including your earth/rad, will outdamage dominators in most situations. For a full discussion of the problems doms have in PvP you might want to check out the dom section on the US boards before you invest a lot of time. Things may improve as balances are introduced over time, but currectly dominators are arguably the weakest AT in either CoV or CoH when it comes to PvP.

Having read through the above posts I would like to once again acknowledge the efforts of the organisers (which I also did in my original, somewhat grumpy post immediately after the match) it’s worth repeating, so thanks guys for doing your best, it was certainly not my intention to discourage you from putting together future PvP events. I appreciate it was an exercise akin to herding cats, as the saying goes.

I think people are approaching the issues raised by this event with very different assumptions, and that is where the conflicting opinions, cries of “whinger” etc are coming from.

The assumptions I personally brought to the event were that villain and hero teams would not really be in the same league in a pentad set up, for reasons I’ll give below. I also assumed that villain vs villain teams WOULD be more balanced, and that the fun was therefore to be had in the initial rounds before the deciding villain vs hero finale, which I did not anticipate being a part of anyway.

There are a number of reasons villain Pentad teams are currently at a disadvantage, in my opinion, including but not restricted to the following:

1) Less slots: hero teams would have considerably more slots available due to mainly having lvl50 heroes

2) Dedicated PvP builds: Heroes are more likely to have a dedicated PvP build, since there is less reason NOT to respec your level 50 hero to a PvP build if you are into PvP. Villains are more likely to be involved in PvE and anticipate 10 more levels of PvE in I7, so are less likely to have a dedicated PvP build.

(As an aside, I have done this with my own lvl 50 Controller, and if I’d wanted to be on the side benefiting from the game’s current imbalances I could have brought her along on the night. However I thought prospect of villain vs villain pentad would be more fun. In the event this did not happen, hence my disappointment and general grumpiness)

3) Mastermind setup times: masterminds need quite a while out of combat at the beginning of a match to reach peak effectiveness, during which time they are rather vulnerable and are not contributing to the team.

4) Dominators general weakness in PvP: Dominators get an inherent power that is not really useable in the arena as it takes ages to build and gets set back to zero when you die (which happens very quickly due to sub blaster hitpoints). Not only this but dominator primaries are noticeably less effective than the controller equivalent , and the damage from the secondaries is poor. The devs themselves have admitted as much and have said that improvements will be made in the future to give doms a boost in PvP

These are all powerful factors in themselves, but taken together the result is that villains just can’t compete in pentads at present. You may not agree with all of this, of course, but my point is that these are the assumptions under which I signed up for a villain vs villain tournament, and I would most definitely not have signed up for a villains vs heroes pentad.

And in answer to those who have said (I paraphrase) “stop whining, pick yourself up and learn from your defeats” I would answer:

I play a dominator in PvP. Picking myself up after being defeated is what I do. Sometimes it’s ALL I do. If I get a single kill in Siren’s Call for every 20 defeats I count myself lucky. It’s pretty miserable, but I’m stubborn and I take what satisfaction I can, and learn what lessons I can, knowing I have picked a difficult task for myself. I could just play my lvl 50 Stormie, but frankly that’s too easy.

So when I saw this tournament I was delighted. Aha! I thought, a chance to get into a match that’s a bit balanced, villain vs villain, on a level playing field. THAT’S why I signed up, and THAT’s why I was so disappointed about yet another night of being spanked by heroes.

Anyway, if you’ve read through all that lot, thanks for your patience, and if another villain vs villain event is set up I’ll join in with gusto.

I am rather cross at having to wait 75 minutes only to be put up against a hero team in the first round, a team comprised of lvl 50s with dedicated pvp builds. That was NOT what I signed up for and the predictably one sided match that resulted was no fun whatsoever for anyone on the villain side.

While I applaud the fact that you bothered to even attempt to organise this tournament, it seriously didn't work out as a fun thing for villains to do. I was expecting a bit of a laugh, to have a fair fight with fellow villains, but to get ganked for target practice by a well honed hero team in the first round was just lame.

Hi MBar. I have some thoughts, on Ice, don't know enough about sonic to be much help there though. I didn't like the FlashFreeze power, even for the purpose you describe: it will put that extra spawn to sleep ok, but unlike the mind control sleep power (mass hypnosis) it also causes all the slept mobs to aggro on you quite strongly. In my experience mobs often get woken quickly by any low damge AOE, which is enough wake them but not to divert the aggro away from you. This can leave you unable to continue your controller functions due to a nasty dose of faceplantitis.

As far as your questions on Jack go, he does nice enough damage if you can get him to use his melee attacks. There are various tricks you can use to do this, most centre around ensuring the mobs see him before they see you so they aggro on him first, for example by using stealth or just super jumping over them so that he follows you through the spawn. But he's not too tanky without buffs, so you need to keep an eye on him. I expect your +res buffs will help here, althoughh I have no direct experience of the sonic sets.

Another way to get him into melee is to simply spawn a new Jack directly on top of the mob you want killed. This can be a viable opener if you have plenty of end and can get the mobs under control before they wipe him out. Since you will have no heal to help Jack out this might be more risky than for other secondary sets, however.

If you are looking for general tips, one of my favourite tricks with the ice set is to cast the ice slick while out of line of sight.

It is possible to hide around a corner, zoom the camera out, swing it around until you get a good view then drop the slick. That way you completely avoid the first volley you will otherwise have to take before they start flopping. This trick can also be pulled off if the mobs are on a platform. It is possible to walk/fly underneath the platform and iceslick them from below in perfect safety, then jump/fly up and finish the job. Beware doing this with Jack out though as he will follow you up to the platform by his own route and can drag extra aggro on the way.

The AOE immob has it's uses, e.g. setting up containment if you have any AOE damage powers, but is probably not the best choice for a sonic secondary, especially since it's quite end heavy. Really you'd be better off with the single target immob, which is useful right through the game as it can one hit immobilise bosses with nasty melee attacks, so you can use it while you wait for BOI to recharge for the second application. It's also great on fliers and works on many AVs so it's useful right through the game.

anyway, I hope that rambling reply helps in some way, and good luck with your new 'troller.

This sounds like fun, I'd like to join in with my Mind/Energy Dominator, Norton, currently at lvl37. He's in the Syndicate, so if there is a Syndicate team they may (or may not!) want me. If not I'm open to offers. I imagine Doms will be in relatively short supply if PVE is anything to go by.

How easy was that?

The respec really needs revamping, the team Jumi got together had clearly been through many respecs and we could have done it while half asleep. In fact I WAS half asleep. Great team, but the respec is getting old.

Spad's advice is right on the money if you intend to mostly PvE. If you want to PvP a lot you might want to do things slightly differently, although to get to a high enough level to make it worthwhile you may want to respec into a pvp build once you get past 38 or so.

Anywy, in PvP, slotting chilling embrace for slows (2 or 3 SOs) makes it very awkward for your PvP opponent to get away from you and will allow you to get in one or two more hits before they do, which can be the difference between getting the kill and seeing them disappear into the sunset.

Similarly, if you drop taunt and keep provoke (you don't need both as Spad points out) you can then go for intimidate later on, which gives you a ranged 'attack' that lets you close the gap on your opponent and get them into melee range. Fear is pretty powerful in PvP and can get through the mez protection of quite a few builds, and most sensible PvPers will be trying to get away from the ice tank as fast as possible unless they have you outnumbered.

Slotting Energy Absorbtion for defence makes sense in PvE, but won't make much difference in PvP since many builds slot heavily for accuracy and you are unlikely to catch more than one or two opponents in the area of effect. The end drain component is more relevant here, as it allows you to stay in long fights and keep your end bar full while depleteing theirs and potentially dropping their toggles, so slotting for end mod might be a better option.

Hibernate is also very good in PvP: you don't have to worry as much about losing aggro as you do in PvE and it annoys the hell out of your opponents! By putting a couple of extra recharge reducers in it you can have it ready that bit more often, increasing your survivability accordingly and giving you 30 seconds breathing space while you wait for hoarfrost and your top end attack powers to recharge.

Of course, if you don't want to PvP you can safely ignore the above and go with Spad's suggestions.

I've just joined the Core with my lvl29 Tank, Jah Frost, so a big thanks for tha invite and hello to all you fellow tankety tankers.

Congratulations 'lana! You certainly deserve it. You'll be glad to hear squids get debt just as fast as blasters

I'm up for it with my Mind/Energy Dom. I realise Doms are a bit underwhelming in PvP, but at least he's got TK and a few toggle droppers. Maybe I7 will bring some much needed Dominator loving. Phwoar!

I'd like to sign up again. I'll bring Polly Styrene, my Rad/Rad defender, to the 2PM session.

See you there.

Welcome CaptainUK! There are a few of us refugees from the US servers knocking about. I have to say I have found the EU servers to have less of the rude/boorish behaviour that you seem to have experienced in the US, and I for one am glad I made the move over.


Alot has changed in the game over the last few issues. I would advise you to check out the threads on this forum about enhancement diversification (ED), which radically changeed optimal slotting in your powers. If your Blaster is on a pre-ED setup you will not be getting the most out of him.

Since you are lvl34 you might want to check out Croatoa, which you can get to via the Greenline railway.

There is also the new global chat facility to get used to, it's really great for tracking which alts your mates are playing.

And if you are into collecting badges I recommend the Union Badgehunters chat channel, where organised badge hunts are advertised. You can join the chanel by right clicking on you chat window, hitting add channel and add "union badgehunters".

cheers

One thing I like about the Mind set is that you get TWO confuse powers, allowing you to confuse a whole spawn including bosses and for no aggro whatsoever. Try using seeds on a longbow boss and see what that gets you.

Mind is fine.

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It's for my Srapper with 0 range attcks and it seem the only option for him. Epic pool is taken with Body Mastery, so no hold powers from that.

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It's a great power, but it has no more range than your other attacks.

If you really want to be able to effect players at range you might consider intimidate from the presence pool. It does no damage but leaves them terrified so you can close the gap using you travel power of choice.

I'd like to sign up with Polly Styrene (lvl 32 Rad/Rad defender). I should be able to get the kids in bed by 8pm, but if I'm a bit late don't start without me!

cheers

Jah Frost will be there, he's 24 now and a lot more tanky than last time you saw him on the Posi TF. I missed Synapse due to family commitments, I'm not missing this one!

Hello and welcome back.

You should check out the "do you miss someone who has left" thread. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

Good job team two, made the others look like laggards

That was fun, when's the next one?

Hi MBar,

can I add my young Ice Tank to the list?

Jah Frost is the name. He's 13 now, I'll try to get to 14 by 2PM to get the travel power.

See you @ 2

There is some good advice here, but there are a few other things you might want to think about: Frostbite has minus knockback, so works well with a slotted tornado, if you do it right (herd and bunch the mobs as tight as poss first) you can get some really nice damage going, and as tornado disorients the imob+disorient combo is in some ways a better hold than Glacier. With the added bonus that you can stay out of melee range to use it, and use it several times a fight. I don't even have Glacier anymore, there are so many other options open to ice/storm that it's not worth the 6 slots you need to make it effective, in my opinion.

As far as the slows go, Arctic air is fun but rarely worth the end, Snowstorn is fantastic in PVP, Shiver offers better flexibility in PvE, having both means no one's going anywhere in a hurry.

You will need stamina if you go with storm, and will have to watch your Endurance very carefully. One of the biggest dangers with this set is actually to over-control, piling on effects when the mobs are already as debuffed/incapacitated as the team needs them to be, and then finding you have no end when you get extra aggro or whatever.

Another thing to consider: the forthcoming chages to summoned pets may well buff storm users considerably: Freezing Rain, Tornado and Lightning Storm should all be affected by things like red and yellow insps, leadership and (oh say it will be so) Fulcrum Shift. An FS'd Lightning Storm would be pretty damn scary.

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Well, the first post sounded like the second coming of UniqueDragon, but....

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Let's hear it for UniqueDragon!!

*wipes a tear of nostalgia from his eye*

you're right of course, but i'd still like to have a go with one.

Welcome back