Dunno about others, but telekinesis is normal magnitude hold, and autohit, so it is good for stacking holds if nothing else.
Apologies if I miss any out....
Energy assault - Bonesmasher, Total focus
Fire Assault - Incinerate, Blaze (tested by US, /fire has a RANGED toggle drooper!!)
Ice Assault - Ice Sword, Greater Ice sword
Psi Assault - mind Probe(?), Psychic Shockwave (yup, a PBAOE toggle dropper)
Not sure about /thorns, never played it
Hope that helps! 
Toggle droppers for Thorns are Skewer and Ripper.
Brawl does drop toggles too, doesn't it? It does that awful amount of times comparing to it's recharge time.
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Brawl does drop toggles too, doesn't it? It does that awful amount of times comparing to it's recharge time.
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5% chance i think it is.
Defiant's GoEH/MILITIS METUS
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Brawl does drop toggles too, doesn't it? It does that awful amount of times comparing to it's recharge time.
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5% chance i think it is.
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Its 33% chance.
I stand corrected .. Thanks lady_D
Defiant's GoEH/MILITIS METUS
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I stand corrected .. Thanks lady_D
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Well, if MaX hasn't posted to correct me yet, I must be right then. 
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I'm looking into starting a new PvP toon, though a Villain this time. After doing my troller, earth/rad, to 42, I just want another evil version of a troller, plus much more damage. >8 snip >8
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If you think you will be doing more damage in PvP with a dominator than with a controller you are in for a rude awakening, I'm afraid. Currently most controller builds, including your earth/rad, will outdamage dominators in most situations. For a full discussion of the problems doms have in PvP you might want to check out the dom section on the US boards before you invest a lot of time. Things may improve as balances are introduced over time, but currectly dominators are arguably the weakest AT in either CoV or CoH when it comes to PvP.
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I'm looking into starting a new PvP toon, though a Villain this time. After doing my troller, earth/rad, to 42, I just want another evil version of a troller, plus much more damage. >8 snip >8
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If you think you will be doing more damage in PvP with a dominator than with a controller you are in for a rude awakening, I'm afraid. Currently most controller builds, including your earth/rad, will outdamage dominators in most situations. For a full discussion of the problems doms have in PvP you might want to check out the dom section on the US boards before you invest a lot of time. Things may improve as balances are introduced over time, but currectly dominators are arguably the weakest AT in either CoV or CoH when it comes to PvP.
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I don't entirely agree with this and I've seen damage comparisons between Doms and Controllers and it's fairly close. What is true is that you shouldn't expect more damage from Doms, they do OK from low to mid and in my case (Plant/Thorns) start doing huge damage level 35+.
As far as PvP goes I'm not at all sure what 'weakest' means, they are extremely fragile but can be extremely potent. Plenty of heroes have made me public enemy number one because I'm a greater threat to them than any other AT in the zone, not at all because I think I am but because they've said so. The reality is heroes aren't used to seeing that many Doms because so many people have said "Doms are weak", saying so doesn't mean it's true.
People always factor in containment and since that's 3x damage in PvP it has a huge effect on numbers. However without containment troller damage is pretty depressing and it's not exactly trivial to get containment in PvP. Doms at least do same amount of damage regardless if the target is soft controlled, hard controlled or not controlled at all.
I've yet to see convincing numbers where controllers pre epics consistently outdamage dominators. Not saying it's not the case but as far as I remember the only thread I've seen with actual numbers was much more in dominators' favour than I would have thought.
In my opinion dominators should outdamage controllers without question, though, but then I think some specific controller builds are grossly overpowered when it comes to damage, especially post-pets and post-epics. Doms are not the only AT they outdamage.
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I stand corrected .. Thanks lady_D
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Well, if MaX hasn't posted to correct me yet, I must be right then.
[/ QUOTE ]Didn't see this thread
It's either 30% or 33%, not sure.
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I'm looking into starting a new PvP toon, though a Villain this time. After doing my troller, earth/rad, to 42, I just want another evil version of a troller, plus much more damage. >8 snip >8
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If you think you will be doing more damage in PvP with a dominator than with a controller you are in for a rude awakening, I'm afraid. Currently most controller builds, including your earth/rad, will outdamage dominators in most situations. For a full discussion of the problems doms have in PvP you might want to check out the dom section on the US boards before you invest a lot of time. Things may improve as balances are introduced over time, but currectly dominators are arguably the weakest AT in either CoV or CoH when it comes to PvP.
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I don't entirely agree with this and I've seen damage comparisons between Doms and Controllers and it's fairly close. What is true is that you shouldn't expect more damage from Doms, they do OK from low to mid and in my case (Plant/Thorns) start doing huge damage level 35+.
As far as PvP goes I'm not at all sure what 'weakest' means, they are extremely fragile but can be extremely potent. Plenty of heroes have made me public enemy number one because I'm a greater threat to them than any other AT in the zone, not at all because I think I am but because they've said so. The reality is heroes aren't used to seeing that many Doms because so many people have said "Doms are weak", saying so doesn't mean it's true.
[/ QUOTE ]Another point (Which I've made before) is that it also depends on the powersets, esp the /secondry set of controllers, Yes /Rad & /kin with there debuffs and self buffs are very potent, however I doubt that the damage output of a /emp or /ff will match that of dominators.
I love my Dom and I'm thinking of makeing another one although the mix of highly offensive & very squishy does make them a bit of an oddball AT
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...I think some specific controller builds are grossly overpowered when it comes to damage, especially post-pets and post-epics. Doms are not the only AT they outdamage.
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Yeah, I think that's fairly accurate tbh.
I agree that a Dominator should definitely be over a Controller in damage terms. I haven't had enough experience yet to equate Dom's Thorn set, but it's definitely pretty good post 35. Aside from that I don't really have any complaints. Chaining 3 holds in rapid succession spells doom for most things, & hitting Seeds Of Confusion on multiples cause them no end of problems, & gives me plenty of laughs . I'm guessing it's all a definite threat as my Dom' is always the first to get singled out for a solid ganking 
. Which can be an [censored] when I'm still just trying to get some PvP experience with it .
ONly just really started taking my Dominator into PvP, & I have to say a big thanks to Filth for re-iterating that Skewer & Ripper toggle drop, it's given me much more success even in the limited experience I've had so far. I understand toggle dropping is getting reigned in a bit soon, but I really hope the Dev's are focussing on the sets where this is clearly an actual issue. The two in Thorns are pretty essential, & it still takes a lot of determination to get in up close & personal to land either. Dropping the toggle drop from these would really be overly detrimental to the sets PvP abilty IMHO.
Actually pulling off a toggle drop & then chaining & a series of holds before letting loose with Ripper & Barrage is intensely rewarding . Still learnng a hell of a lot about teaming in PvP, but each scalp my Dominator claims has been hard fought for & really villainously glorious
My personal opinion is that devs should remove the damage boost from domination and instead make dominator attacks more powerful as a whole...
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My personal opinion is that devs should remove the damage boost from domination and instead make dominator attacks more powerful as a whole...
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Very strongly disagree with this. Not only do I think Domination works well, I think it works the best out of all the other villain inherents, possibly all other inherents. The only issue I have with Domination is the difficulty in building it up in PvP, otherwise it works great.
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My personal opinion is that devs should remove the damage boost from domination and instead make dominator attacks more powerful as a whole...
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Nope, love my domination damage boost, leave it the hell alone or I'll job ya with me Ice Sword
I quite like it as it is, just wish they'd lower end and recharge a bit on the attacks, dont mind taking longer to kill outside of domination, if only I had the end to do it
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
My point was not that there is something wrong in domination but personally I'd prefer more damaging attacks, that was just one idea of balancing it..
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My point was not that there is something wrong in domination but personally I'd prefer more damaging attacks, that was just one idea of balancing it..
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I can't really disagree with wanting better attacks at lower-to-mid level, the problem would be we would be out-damaging Corruptors if our damage was upped.
What I have found is the two late attacks my damage becomes very great post-level 35 so I've gone from mediocre 'torturer' to scrapper-like damage with those attacks and domination running. Even without Domination the damage I do at level 40 is way way above what I do at 30. I'm not entirely happy about this but it does mean I can compete with Scrappers and Blasters for damage post-40 and for me that means Recluse's Victory and anything else the game can throw at me.
I just like the way Domination works, but I can also see not everybody does. It works badly in PvP along with our low survivability, and that combination is pretty depressing.
I love Domination, it makes me feel like a god, it makes me grin like Cheshire Cat. But I do think there's some point in what Hammerfall suggests. Sometimes I feel too binary, some boss fights are either trivially easy (with Domination) or really hard (without Domination). Maybe they could remove some of the damage bonus and give the attacks a slight boost, but leave some as it is. Double mag is my favorite part about Domination anyway.
I have no issues with Domination in PVE at all.
The only issue is just not being able to get it to work in PvP. In the usual fights I really don't see, factoring in the survivabilty, how the Dev's can really think the pace of PvP fights is such that a Dominator can get it activated very much at all. Sure, you might be lucky to get into a 1 on 1 at some point, but building from flatline up over 4 or minutes isn't realistic and happens rarely.
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I can't really disagree with wanting better attacks at lower-to-mid level, the problem would be we would be out-damaging Corruptors if our damage was upped.
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That tells something of corruptors if you ask me, I'm not excited about my corruptor if I compare it to my blaster..
Btw too many villain inherents dont cut it in pvp, Mastermind inherent, domination, fury..
(edit: of course, no need to mention the TANK inherent...)
My personal opinion is that double magnitude, increased hold duration and full endurance bar are good enough, sure damage boost is great but it makes dominators TOO dependent on domination..
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Btw too many villain inherents dont cut it in pvp, Mastermind inherent, domination, fury..
(edit: of course, no need to mention the TANK inherent...)
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Well Fury can build in seconds, MM inherent works fine. Kind of makes me laugh that MMs are getting a substantial boost when they already are way above Doms as far being able to survive but presumably Bodyguard has been implemented to placate the hordes of insane MM players; all the more reason to suspect the mystery Dom buff is going to be rubbish.
Domination is completely different in that you get no benefit even at very high levels, get killed at 85% Domination and all that time is wasted for no benefit. When you play as a Dom in PvP you have the narrowest of margins for error, no shield, no buff, no debuff, no heal, no other AT has attack as their only defence.*
There's never been a time when Tanks were not fairly stupid in PvP, or, whatever they are they aren't tanks for sure. There was a recent announcement that Gauntlet will be working in PvP.
*Edit: erm, except of course Blasters, but even they have the option to take Devices or Ice, both of which have defensive powers, and the really quite nice thankyou Force Mastery Ancillary. We get a pet spider.
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Well Fury can build in seconds, MM inherent works fine. Kind of makes me laugh that MMs are getting a substantial boost when they already are way above Doms as far being able to survive but presumably Bodyguard has been implemented to placate the hordes of insane MM players; all the more reason to suspect the mystery Dom buff is going to be rubbish.
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Erm, what is the substantial buff youre talking about? I know of some buff coming..to PVP.
Are we talking PVE or PVP here?
In PVE sure, dominators give a whole new meaning to the term "squishy".. Aggroing everything and being unable to withstand anything.. And having naff attacks on top of that.
In PVP I havent noticed MMS to be far above doms in survivability.. Sure it doesnt take much to be above doms, but personally I see only FF MMs have some chance... EDIT: But I may have a bit biased point of view from behind these built-up, aimed power fists
Besides, afaik the devs make the decisions based on the statistics they can access, like different ATs kills/own defeats ratio.
I'm looking into starting a new PvP toon, though a Villain this time. After doing my troller, earth/rad, to 42, I just want another evil version of a troller, plus much more damage. However, I can't seem to find a list of ANY detoggle attacks Dominators have!
Talking to my friends, I know my Mind/Energy has some potential with TK (auto hit + toggle dropper?), Bone Smasher and Total Focus. However, I want to know if these attacks accually DO drop toggles - and what are the other attacks, Primary and Secondareis, that also detoggle?
@Double
Double Flame 50 fire/devices
Double Shade 50 tri-form warshade
Double Light 50 dwarf-human peacebringer
Double Control 50 earth/rad