_Norton_

I'm happy with the ideas for acrobatics, although my mind dom is crying quietly in the corner (again)over the proposed TK nerf. But 2 BFs to break out sounds fair, so I'm hoping they go with that.

At least we're getting a proposal rather than a fait acompli, so overall it's thumbs up to the devs.

Besides, anything that makes Knockback useful in PvP gets my vote.

As long as they make it possible for a KB focused build to be effective, without creating a juggle fest where everyone is continually on their backside, it can only make PvP more dynamic. The tactical possibilities for using KB could add a whole new dimension to arena matches.

And a really big plus for me is that it's is very much in the Comic book tradition. Slamming the bad/good guy into the wall is fun, and that kind of superheroic fun is why I play this game, rather than something else.

And these changes should also make the currently under-performing melee toons more useful to have around, which is another plus.

Also, I'm thinking these changes might make a Storm/Energy defender a useful PvP option. Or even an Energy/Storm corrupter, once i12 is here. What do you guys reckon?

Thanks guys

I'm looking forward to the next team(s) we come up with.

Mr TPF, you need to get a decent 'puter, so you can appreciate the power of the dark side. It's calling to you...

Congratumalations Pinki!

Well done mate, sorry I missed it!

If you like teams with lots of knockback, give me a shout (@norton) on a Tuesday evening after 8PM. Me and a few mates have a regular knockback night where anything goes. It may not be the most efficient way of earning XP, but it's the most fun i've had in over 3 years of CoH.

The team at the moment is 3 Energy/Energy blasters and a Storm/energy defender, but we always welcome anyone who doesn't moan about KB and if they bring their own chaos so much the better

We're currently lvl 30ish, but SKs are welcome too.

edit: we're on defiant.

With my SS/Elec I opted not to take a travel power so I could fit in the fighting, fitness and medicine pools, as well as hasten. He's 42 now and I can't say I've really misssed having one, what with sprint, LR and swift combined with the GvE jetpack and the temp powers. I get around fine, even in Grandville.

And having aid self, tough and hasten makes him very, very durable. I'm constantly amazed at the beating he can take (and dish out).

Sorry I wasn't able to make it. Real Life got in the way

I'd like to sign up for this. I have a storm defender or a spines/dark scrapper that I can bring, depending on what's needed.

Send a tell in game to @norton or post here to let me know who to bring.

Cheers

I'd be up for this one too if there's room. I've got a lvl28 storm defender, lvl26 grav troller or I can exemp down with a scrapper...don't mind which

Any danger i could join you with my lvl50 ice/storm controller, Jill Frost? I haven't done this TF yet and would love to have a go

hi, online now with ohm boy and ready to go (6PM)

I'd like to sign up for this with my brute Ohm Boy, if you'll have him. He'll most likely be 39 by tomorrow evening (now 38).

For what it's worth, I've been playing since the US release, and ice/storm is the only toon i've ever liked enough to get to 50. Don't know what that tells you, though.

I love knockback heavy teams, have you got any room for a stormie? Which server are you on? What lvl have you got to? I want to see the chaos!

Begging aside, there is another advantage to slotting knockback: it increases 'magnitude' not just distance, so you can knock over things that would otherwise not be affected. For example, carnie strongmen can resist gale slotted only for accuracy, but stick a KB SO in there and they go flying.

I think it's a shame that KB doesn't stack like mezzes though. 8 simultaneous torrents should knock anything over

Hmm, going to have to try it now. Maybe the disorients will last long enough if I slot them right, and if he's mezzed it should drop his armour toggle, giving me a chance to kill him off. In theory anyway. Hell, as a WS I'm used to debt, so it's worth a try

I'll let you know how it goes.

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I do not suggest trying to solo a Quantum or Void Boss, EVER. You can't mez them, so one "miss" with knockback powers and you're toast... I've soloed Quantum Bosses a few times by keeping them in melee-range only, but Void Bosses will one shot you, even Essence-Boosted in dwarfie with the +HP accolades.

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Do Void bosses get mez protection then? I can mezz ordinary bosses easily enough on my human only WS. Turn on Inky Aspect (mag 2 stun) plus any other toggles. TP next to boss. Queue up Gravitic emanation (mag 3 stun + knockback) mid flight so it goes off as soon as you materialise. Boss falls on backside, gets up stunned to be finished off as normal. It's very effective against ordinary bosses, but I can't recall if I've ever succesfully used it against a void boss.

The old Fire/Ice burn tank is once again a viable way to go for survivability plus damage. Now Fiery Embrace and buildup both buff burn the damage is very nice, and the ice patch keeps them in the flames. It works on teams or solo, and you get a bit of control in the secondary from the hold and the slow effects as well as the patch. Also, once you get to epics you can go for fire, giving you a second hold to stack on bosses and (eventualy) a firey embrace boosted fireball. Which is nice.

It used to be THE power leveling build, then it got nerfed, then it got buffed again. It only really comes together after SOs though (lvl22+), and you need a very specific (i.e. cookie cutter) build to make it work, with tough, combat jumping, acrobatics and stamina all being essential and hasten being advisable. So your pools pretty much pick themselves.

My only 50 is on Union, and I pvp mostly in the zones, therefore mostly against villains. I'd be the first to admit that my arena experience is more limited than I'd like, which is why I've been talking about zones, which is where the OP will mostly be playing, and my comments were directed at him rather than the pvp community at large.

I don't doubt that your build is very effective in 1 v 1 arena matches.

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And if you're arguing against a power pick, merely saying 'it's just bad' comes across as glib and dismissive rather than informed and persuasive.

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But it is. Pre-nerf, the toggle knocking meant it was very uefull in keeping yourself protected from certain things, as well as dropping travel powers off of people. The damage isn't very good, there's no toggle drops with it, and it's stationary. If you're just standing still not doing much (Oh hey, assasin strike) then I guess it'd be ok, but personally, movement is king in PvP, so it's not the best.

My two cents.

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Which is giving good reasons for your opinion, and is far more persuasive than saying 'it's just bad'. Sorry if I sounded snappish, but having my fairly reasonable opinion dismissed out of hand I find a bit vexing

I wasn't trying to claim it's the best power available, just worth having.

Eh, you may be right, it may not be a worthwhile power for certain playstyles or for organised team PvP in the arena. But in the zones I have had reason to like having it in my build.

You don't have to be totaly stationary to use it as part of a trap. Set one up near the ground in a likely spot, drop a tornado, stealth up, and fly/jump in a holding pattern around it. Once you spot an opponent and engage it goes to work for you. Since you have so many slows, opponents tend to stay close enough for long enough for the damage to justify the end cost. The damage is ok, though not great. It has been enough to save my hide numerous times.

Or you could TP a squishy onto an iceslick with a tornado, Jack and LS already summoned. It adds to DPS without extra end output after the initial summon and without you having to think about it, thus freeing up power activation time during combat and attention space in your head for all the other things you could be doing.

A lot of an ice/storm's best powers are location based anyway, getting your opponents to come to you makes sense, it doesn't mean you're just sitting there doing nothing. And it doesn't have to be your only tactic. But if you are chasing after them rather than having them come to you, then your tornado & jack are lagging behind you and may never catch up. Either that or you have to cast them in once you get there, which is not end efficient.

Also, LS will also be more appreciated, I believe, once base raids become more common (here's hoping they do!)

But I'm really not trying to persuade anyone to take LS if they don't want to, just saying that in my experience it's not without uses, to say nothing of being dead funny when the knockback works. (I'd take it for the comedy value alone, so I suppose I'm biased).

As far as the immobs go, you may be right that both is best, but one is better than neither and if you only go for one i'd pick the single target. The AoE costs a *lot* of end, or a lot of slots for end reducers, and the ST immob recycles almost as fast as you can cast it with hasten and good slotting.

Fortunately there is room for various builds in CoH, and it would be boring if everyone built their toons the same. The best advice really is to tke your respec to the test server and try it a few builds for yourself with a willing friend or two. A job I'm always happy to help with

The single target immob is essential for PvP for setting up containment on melee toons, but the AoE isn't essential and getting both certainly isn't. The end cost of the AOE is very high for what it does, and the only time you're likely to find it useful in PvP is against MMs.

And if you're arguing against a power pick, merely saying 'it's just bad' comes across as glib and dismissive rather than informed and persuasive.

Ok, but only if you stroke your own chin. Mine's off limits.

Yeah primal is great, conserve power is lovely for a stormy.

Powerboost is also great, but doesn't work on slows, so it's not *as* great for ice/storm as it is for some other sets. I've tried all the EPPs, and they're all good tbh. They make the villain patron pools look rubbish.

By the way, I was in RV tonight and my LS saved me from a stalker more than once. It belts them as soon as they come out of hide, way quicker than you can react, and it knocked him flying! It was also hitting for ~100 a pop, which is not too bad at all. I love my storm!

*edited for sense*

You're right about no accs in tornado, Archy, i just checked. Not sure why I thought that it could

You're also right to say Lighting storm is not nearly as good as it was before the toggle drop nerf, but it still has it's uses for an ice/storm, I reckon, against some opponents. The knockback alone can be a lifesaver. Not all squishies in the zones have knockback protection, even some stalkers don't have it. If you're into serious arena matches i suppose most will, but not necesarily in the zones which I believe is where Inspector Frost is most likely to be pvp-ing. Which is also the basis for my comments about hurricane and AA

There are other, equally situational ways to use it, even if it's just as a distraction. You can set it up before a fight and it keeps the damage going at no additional end cost while you attend to other things. And the damage isn't *that* bad, especially as it is now buffable.

Part of what makes ice/storm awkward to fight against is the sheer chaos, with jack, tornados, snowstorms, rain & mist to contend with. LS adds to the psychological distraction!

You may not find my arguments convincing, and I can see why you feel dissapointed having had it before the nerfs and comparing it to what it is now, but I'm keeping my LS anyway, it's too much fun to drop.

Hello matey

some notes from a fellow member of the Frost family:

Don't bother with def buffs in steamy mist, 3x resistance and 2x end reducers is optimal, i reckon. The def part of SM was nerfed all to hell a while back.

Arctic air is good in pvp, but hurricane is better and the two don't work well together, as the 'cane will push them out of the AA. They both cost painfull amounts of endurance, and endurance management is the biggest problem for ice/storm in PVP, in my experience. In fact, slot for end reducers wherever you can.

Don't put any extra slots in stimulant (I don't think it even takes heals) Consider getting aid other and dropping stimulant and o2 boost, allowing an extra power pick so you can...

TAKE TORNADO!!! it is a very good power in pvp. It hits almost anything with just one acc in it and is effective against anyone. If they have no knockback and mez resist they are helpless in its power, and if they do (i.e. melee toons) it sticks to them like a whirly terrier, does some decent damage over time and just annoys the hell out of people. It doesn'y work on fliers of course, but then you have snowstorm...

I slot mine for recharge and damage, although disorients also work well. Psi tornado on the other hand is not so great (as has been mentioned), you'll find the blast better I think.

Consider the ice epic rather than psi. Although psi is good, and the mez resist from IW looks good on paper, you will still need to carry a shedload of BFs as it never seems to be up when you need it most. Ice, on the other hand, gives an arguably better blast, defence based armor (which is not good for everyone in pvp but stacks nicely with the acc debuff from hurricane so can work for stormies) and hibernate, which will make you VERY hard to kill. Having tried both, I will be respeccing back into ice as soon as I8 goes live and I get my hands on the veteran respec(s).

Finally: I love lightning storm. There are loads of ways to use it for both offense and defense in PVP, and it looks cool. Why be a stormy if you don't take your storm? For more details on how it can be used, i suggest an after dinner discussion over port and cigars. How about next Tuesday?

Gratulations! That must have taken a fair bit of organising. Well done

Hi Mbar. I have a lvl45 fire/ice burn monster. I shelved him in I4 cause he was too easy, but after a recent respec I've been playing him a bit, and he's still fun but no longer overpowered (obviously)

I'm happy with one acc in blazing aura for pve, with 2 end red and three damage. It seems to hit purples alright with that slotting. You probably won't want to fight more than +3s anyway unless you really like debt.

I wouldn't put any slots in combat jumping, and I wouldn't bother with weave. I tried both and the only difference I noticed with weave was I ran out of end more quickly. Tough is essential, weave is just a -end toggle unless you have some other def to stack it with, wich you don't, and even then the cost/benefit is marginal. I did some testing and weave wasn't even worth it on an ice tank, let alone a fire tank. Check out my post on the alt forums fighting pool thread for more detail.

Consume I would slot 3x end rec 1x acc 2x end mod. Without 2 end mods it won't do much unless you have 3-5 bad guys around you, with them you can keep your toggles up against AVs even after it's minions are dead. If you really need an acc boost pop a yellow or hit BU before consume.

If you are sure you want RotP, slot for disorient. The damage is not that great but the disorient is pretty good. Diso enhancements will give you plenty of time to get your toggles back up before they kill you again. Which they most certainly will. If you couldn't take the incoming aggro before hitting RotP, you probably won't be able to take it afterwards. Although I'm sure you'll have fun trying.

As to the BU / Fiery embrace question, without burn or fire secondary BU is slightly better, as you can use it for the acc boost when trying to use consume on deep purples. But FE now boosts burn very nicely (not that you will be taking it) and will work on your epic powers too. hmmm. BU until epics, then respec into FE? I use FE but I have ice patch and burn, so it makes sense.

Hope this helps.