Ice Storm for PVP

This toon has been 50 for a long time now and was an excellent team controller. I want to start using it again and am trying ideas for a pvp build. I have taken out many AoE holds such as glacier and frostbite. I have also taken out tornado and thunderclap. Have added arctic air and the leaping pool for a more up close and personal playstyle along with aid self. I am looking for a ny comments suggestions on this build. My only worry is the damage output as it seems pitiful with this build and it seems I will be able to slow and hold but it will take forever to kill anyone!
Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://sherksilver.coldfront.net/index.php)
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Name: Inspector Frost
Level: 50
Archetype: Controller
Primary: Ice Control
Secondary: Storm Summoning
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01) --> Block of Ice==> Acc(1) Acc(3) Rechg(3) Rechg(5) Hold(5) Hold(7)
01) --> Gale==> Acc(1)
02) --> O2 Boost==> Heal(2) Heal(7) Heal(9) Rechg(34) Rechg(34)
04) --> Snow Storm==> EndRdx(4) Slow(9) Slow(11) Slow(15) Rechg(19) EndRdx(31)
06) --> Swift==> Run(6)
08) --> Combat Jumping==> EndRdx(8)
10) --> Steamy Mist==> EndRdx(10) EndRdx(11) DmgRes(13) DefBuf(19) DmgRes(23) DefBuf(25)
12) --> Ice Slick==> Rechg(12) Rechg(13) Rechg(15)
14) --> Super Jump==> Jump(14)
16) --> Freezing Rain==> Acc(16) Acc(17) Rechg(17) Slow(25) Slow(31) Slow(36)
18) --> Hurdle==> Jump(18)
20) --> Stamina==> EndMod(20) EndMod(21) EndMod(21)
22) --> Arctic Air==> EndRdx(22) EndRdx(23) Slow(36) Slow(36) ConfDur(37) ConfDur(37)
24) --> Hurricane==> EndRdx(24) EndRdx(29) TH_DeBuf(29) TH_DeBuf(31) TH_DeBuf(37) KB_Dist(46)
26) --> Hasten==> Rechg(26) Rechg(27) Rechg(27)
28) --> Super Speed==> Run(28)
30) --> Acrobatics==> EndRdx(30)
32) --> Jack Frost==> Acc(32) Acc(33) Dmg(33) Dmg(33) Dmg(34) Hold(40)
35) --> Stimulant==> Heal(35) IntRdx(42) Heal(42) Heal(42)
38) --> Lightning Storm==> Acc(38) Acc(39) Dmg(39) Dmg(39) Rechg(40) Rechg(40)
41) --> Indomitable Will==> Rechg(41) Rechg(43) Rechg(43) DefBuf(43) DefBuf(45)
44) --> Mind Over Body==> DmgRes(44) DmgRes(45) DmgRes(45) EndRdx(46) EndRdx(46)
47) --> Psionic Tornado==> Acc(47) Acc(48) Dmg(48) Dmg(48)
49) --> Aid Self==> Heal(49) Heal(50) Heal(50) IntRdx(50)
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01) --> Sprint==> Empty(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Empty(1)
01) --> Containment==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Empty(2)

There are a few things I would change:

O2 boost – its not that great might be best to drop it for something more useful

Snow storm – 2 end red and 1 slow/recharge is enough

Freezing rain – 3 recharge, 2-3 def debuff and 0-1 end red would be better slotting

Tornado – it’s nice to have in pvp

Aid self – you should slot this 3 heal 2 int 1 recharge.

EPP – I would change to primal it has some nice powers in it for pvp. Power boost is great to have and power blast would give you some extra damage.

You may also want to put 3 jump in hurdle and combat jumping for good combat movement.

get rid of lighting storm its [censored] now. get rid of psionic tornado and get psyhich blast if you want that epic. slot nsow storn 3 end reduce 3 slows. rest listen to protector.

Hello matey

some notes from a fellow member of the Frost family:

Don't bother with def buffs in steamy mist, 3x resistance and 2x end reducers is optimal, i reckon. The def part of SM was nerfed all to hell a while back.

Arctic air is good in pvp, but hurricane is better and the two don't work well together, as the 'cane will push them out of the AA. They both cost painfull amounts of endurance, and endurance management is the biggest problem for ice/storm in PVP, in my experience. In fact, slot for end reducers wherever you can.

Don't put any extra slots in stimulant (I don't think it even takes heals) Consider getting aid other and dropping stimulant and o2 boost, allowing an extra power pick so you can...

TAKE TORNADO!!! it is a very good power in pvp. It hits almost anything with just one acc in it and is effective against anyone. If they have no knockback and mez resist they are helpless in its power, and if they do (i.e. melee toons) it sticks to them like a whirly terrier, does some decent damage over time and just annoys the hell out of people. It doesn'y work on fliers of course, but then you have snowstorm...

I slot mine for recharge and damage, although disorients also work well. Psi tornado on the other hand is not so great (as has been mentioned), you'll find the blast better I think.

Consider the ice epic rather than psi. Although psi is good, and the mez resist from IW looks good on paper, you will still need to carry a shedload of BFs as it never seems to be up when you need it most. Ice, on the other hand, gives an arguably better blast, defence based armor (which is not good for everyone in pvp but stacks nicely with the acc debuff from hurricane so can work for stormies) and hibernate, which will make you VERY hard to kill. Having tried both, I will be respeccing back into ice as soon as I8 goes live and I get my hands on the veteran respec(s).

Finally: I love lightning storm. There are loads of ways to use it for both offense and defense in PVP, and it looks cool. Why be a stormy if you don't take your storm? For more details on how it can be used, i suggest an after dinner discussion over port and cigars. How about next Tuesday?

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Arctic air is good in pvp, but hurricane is better and the two don't work well together, as the 'cane will push them out of the AA. They both cost painfull amounts of endurance, and endurance management is the biggest problem for ice/storm in PVP, in my experience. In fact, slot for end reducers wherever you can.

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Most people have knockback resistance in PvP (they'd better!) so that isnt that much of an issue but as you said costs looooads of end so be careful using this unless you have an emp or kin backing you up.

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TAKE TORNADO!!! it is a very good power in pvp. It hits almost anything with just one acc in it and is effective against anyone. If they have no knockback and mez resist they are helpless in its power, and if they do (i.e. melee toons) it sticks to them like a whirly terrier, does some decent damage over time and just annoys the hell out of people. It doesn'y work on fliers of course, but then you have snowstorm...

I slot mine for recharge and damage, although disorients also work well.

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Tornado doesnt take acc does it? not the last time i checked anyway? Tornado is brilliant for PvP as it has a massive def debuff.....it can negate PFF for gods sake!


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Finally: I love lightning storm. There are loads of ways to use it for both offense and defense in PVP, and it looks cool. Why be a stormy if you don't take your storm? For more details on how it can be used, i suggest an after dinner discussion over port and cigars. How about next Tuesday?

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Lightning Storm lost its appeal after the toggledrop nerf

Now it's , as Psydock says, next to useless. Stationary pet which dmg isnt that great and since it can't (well it can but the chance utter [censored]) drop toggles you would definately want to skip it....still very good in PvE though.

You're right about no accs in tornado, Archy, i just checked. Not sure why I thought that it could

You're also right to say Lighting storm is not nearly as good as it was before the toggle drop nerf, but it still has it's uses for an ice/storm, I reckon, against some opponents. The knockback alone can be a lifesaver. Not all squishies in the zones have knockback protection, even some stalkers don't have it. If you're into serious arena matches i suppose most will, but not necesarily in the zones which I believe is where Inspector Frost is most likely to be pvp-ing. Which is also the basis for my comments about hurricane and AA

There are other, equally situational ways to use it, even if it's just as a distraction. You can set it up before a fight and it keeps the damage going at no additional end cost while you attend to other things. And the damage isn't *that* bad, especially as it is now buffable.

Part of what makes ice/storm awkward to fight against is the sheer chaos, with jack, tornados, snowstorms, rain & mist to contend with. LS adds to the psychological distraction!

You may not find my arguments convincing, and I can see why you feel dissapointed having had it before the nerfs and comparing it to what it is now, but I'm keeping my LS anyway, it's too much fun to drop.

Port and cigars sounds great and maybe some chin stroking as well.
Went for the power boost and blast root just for a change as i've not tried it seems to work really well tho the psi armour is missed for its extra protection. Tornado is great and I kept it.
Ended up leaving LS out tho i do miss it as it does look so good and moody!
Not actually practised much PvP yet so maybe while u puffing cigars i can freeze u out!

Ok, but only if you stroke your own chin. Mine's off limits.

Yeah primal is great, conserve power is lovely for a stormy.

Powerboost is also great, but doesn't work on slows, so it's not *as* great for ice/storm as it is for some other sets. I've tried all the EPPs, and they're all good tbh. They make the villain patron pools look rubbish.

By the way, I was in RV tonight and my LS saved me from a stalker more than once. It belts them as soon as they come out of hide, way quicker than you can react, and it knocked him flying! It was also hitting for ~100 a pop, which is not too bad at all. I love my storm!

*edited for sense*

agree that LS can be quite useful in PvP if it suits your playstyle....I'm always moving so LS is useless for me.

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Arctic air is good in pvp, but hurricane is better and the two don't work well together, as the 'cane will push them out of the AA. They both cost painfull amounts of endurance, and endurance management is the biggest problem for ice/storm in PVP, in my experience. In fact, slot for end reducers wherever you can.

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Most people have knockback resistance in PvP (they'd better!) so that isnt that much of an issue

[/ QUOTE ]KB, yes, but not repel

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Arctic air is good in pvp, but hurricane is better and the two don't work well together, as the 'cane will push them out of the AA. They both cost painfull amounts of endurance, and endurance management is the biggest problem for ice/storm in PVP, in my experience. In fact, slot for end reducers wherever you can.

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Most people have knockback resistance in PvP (they'd better!) so that isnt that much of an issue

[/ QUOTE ]KB, yes, but not repel

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I can run up and get a melee hit on someone running Hurricane as long as i get a small run up, no sprint, no superspeed, just one SO in swift.

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Arctic air is good in pvp, but hurricane is better and the two don't work well together, as the 'cane will push them out of the AA. They both cost painfull amounts of endurance, and endurance management is the biggest problem for ice/storm in PVP, in my experience. In fact, slot for end reducers wherever you can.

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Most people have knockback resistance in PvP (they'd better!) so that isnt that much of an issue

[/ QUOTE ]KB, yes, but not repel

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True, but the repel effect is neglible now as anyone with sprint (oh...thats everyone!!) can get a hit in before they're repelled.

You lack 2 very important powers.

Your single target and AoE immob.

and skip LS. Its just bad.

The single target immob is essential for PvP for setting up containment on melee toons, but the AoE isn't essential and getting both certainly isn't. The end cost of the AOE is very high for what it does, and the only time you're likely to find it useful in PvP is against MMs.

And if you're arguing against a power pick, merely saying 'it's just bad' comes across as glib and dismissive rather than informed and persuasive.

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The single target immob is essential for PvP for setting up containment on melee toons, but the AoE isn't essential and getting both certainly isn't. The end cost of the AOE is very high for what it does, and the only time you're likely to find it useful in PvP is against MMs.

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You can set up containment MUCH faster with both the immobs, which is your PvP bread and butter. Immobs are the best way to set up containment in PvP, so more is never bad. Never.

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And if you're arguing against a power pick, merely saying 'it's just bad' comes across as glib and dismissive rather than informed and persuasive.

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But it is. Pre-nerf, the toggle knocking meant it was very uefull in keeping yourself protected from certain things, as well as dropping travel powers off of people. The damage isn't very good, there's no toggle drops with it, and it's stationary. If you're just standing still not doing much (Oh hey, assasin strike) then I guess it'd be ok, but personally, movement is king in PvP, so it's not the best.

My two cents.

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The single target immob is essential for PvP for setting up containment on melee toons, but the AoE isn't essential and getting both certainly isn't. The end cost of the AOE is very high for what it does, and the only time you're likely to find it useful in PvP is against MMs.

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Taking both immobs is for faster stacking against things like scraps, tanks, brutes and such....nothing to do with MMs.
Fighting MMs is easy on a ice/storm: Lay down ice slick and go to town.

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And if you're arguing against a power pick, merely saying 'it's just bad' comes across as glib and dismissive rather than informed and persuasive.

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NBs just stating what others have already said in the thread....no need to repeat it.

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You lack 2 very important powers.

Your single target and AoE immob.

and skip LS. Its just bad.

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I have block of ice listed on hero planner and did in fact take AoE hold as well as I still play PvE and it works well with tornado.

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And if you're arguing against a power pick, merely saying 'it's just bad' comes across as glib and dismissive rather than informed and persuasive.

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But it is. Pre-nerf, the toggle knocking meant it was very uefull in keeping yourself protected from certain things, as well as dropping travel powers off of people. The damage isn't very good, there's no toggle drops with it, and it's stationary. If you're just standing still not doing much (Oh hey, assasin strike) then I guess it'd be ok, but personally, movement is king in PvP, so it's not the best.

My two cents.

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Which is giving good reasons for your opinion, and is far more persuasive than saying 'it's just bad'. Sorry if I sounded snappish, but having my fairly reasonable opinion dismissed out of hand I find a bit vexing

I wasn't trying to claim it's the best power available, just worth having.

Eh, you may be right, it may not be a worthwhile power for certain playstyles or for organised team PvP in the arena. But in the zones I have had reason to like having it in my build.

You don't have to be totaly stationary to use it as part of a trap. Set one up near the ground in a likely spot, drop a tornado, stealth up, and fly/jump in a holding pattern around it. Once you spot an opponent and engage it goes to work for you. Since you have so many slows, opponents tend to stay close enough for long enough for the damage to justify the end cost. The damage is ok, though not great. It has been enough to save my hide numerous times.

Or you could TP a squishy onto an iceslick with a tornado, Jack and LS already summoned. It adds to DPS without extra end output after the initial summon and without you having to think about it, thus freeing up power activation time during combat and attention space in your head for all the other things you could be doing.

A lot of an ice/storm's best powers are location based anyway, getting your opponents to come to you makes sense, it doesn't mean you're just sitting there doing nothing. And it doesn't have to be your only tactic. But if you are chasing after them rather than having them come to you, then your tornado & jack are lagging behind you and may never catch up. Either that or you have to cast them in once you get there, which is not end efficient.

Also, LS will also be more appreciated, I believe, once base raids become more common (here's hoping they do!)

But I'm really not trying to persuade anyone to take LS if they don't want to, just saying that in my experience it's not without uses, to say nothing of being dead funny when the knockback works. (I'd take it for the comedy value alone, so I suppose I'm biased).

As far as the immobs go, you may be right that both is best, but one is better than neither and if you only go for one i'd pick the single target. The AoE costs a *lot* of end, or a lot of slots for end reducers, and the ST immob recycles almost as fast as you can cast it with hasten and good slotting.

Fortunately there is room for various builds in CoH, and it would be boring if everyone built their toons the same. The best advice really is to tke your respec to the test server and try it a few builds for yourself with a willing friend or two. A job I'm always happy to help with

Im pretty sure you havnt played against a PvP controller.

You dont by any chance have a lvl50 toon on defiant?

I havnt played CoH for 3-4 months so Im a bit rusty. I also need to respec my fire/storm. Anyway give me chance to prove why you need both immobs. Give me an arena challange, you know rated rules.

My only 50 is on Union, and I pvp mostly in the zones, therefore mostly against villains. I'd be the first to admit that my arena experience is more limited than I'd like, which is why I've been talking about zones, which is where the OP will mostly be playing, and my comments were directed at him rather than the pvp community at large.

I don't doubt that your build is very effective in 1 v 1 arena matches.

I'd pay good Inf to see that fight.

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You lack 2 very important powers.

Your single target and AoE immob.

and skip LS. Its just bad.

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I have block of ice listed on hero planner and did in fact take AoE hold as well as I still play PvE and it works well with tornado.

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The AoE hold is pretty much worthless in PvP. The recharge is too slow. Im sorry, I thought you wanted a PvP build, not a hybrid.

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You lack 2 very important powers.

Your single target and AoE immob.

and skip LS. Its just bad.

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I have block of ice listed on hero planner and did in fact take AoE hold as well as I still play PvE and it works well with tornado.

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The AoE hold is pretty much worthless in PvP. The recharge is too slow. Im sorry, I thought you wanted a PvP build, not a hybrid.

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erm i did want information on a PvP build its just that you said i had missed 2 holds and the posted build did in fact have block of ice listed. So i was a little confused as to your post but not to worry. Also i meant that i have picked the AoE immob not the hold(glacier) as stated. Anyway this thread is getting a little confused and my actual respec bears little resemblance to the build posted for comment. It does appear however that people have lots of views and playstyles for the ice storm set as it is an excellent set with so much to choose from.

Yes, the thread got a bit derailed but to put my personal views into perspective here's my personal PvP build for my Ice/Storm:

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Name: Arch Sector
Level: 50
Archetype: Controller
Primary: Ice Control
Secondary: Storm Summoning
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01) --> Chilblain==> Acc(1) Acc(3) Rechg(3) Rechg(5) Immob(5) Immob(7)
01) --> Gale==> Acc(1)
02) --> Block of Ice==> Acc(2) Acc(7) Rechg(9) Rechg(9) Hold(11) Hold(11)
04) --> Snow Storm==> EndRdx(4) EndRdx(13) EndRdx(43) Slow(46) Rechg(50)
06) --> Combat Jumping==> Jump(6) Jump(13) Jump(40)
08) --> Aid Other==> Heal(8)
10) --> Hurdle==> Jump(10) Jump(15) Jump(17)
12) --> Ice Slick==> Rechg(12) Rechg(15) Rechg(17) EndRdx(46)
14) --> Super Jump==> Jump(14) EndRdx(48)
16) --> Swift==> Run(16)
18) --> Freezing Rain==> Rechg(18) Rechg(19) Rechg(19) EndRdx(21) EndRdx(31) DefDeBuf(31)
20) --> Stamina==> EndMod(20) EndMod(21) EndMod(23)
22) --> Aid Self==> Heal(22) Heal(23) Heal(25) Rechg(25) IntRdx(27) IntRdx(27)
24) --> Hurricane==> EnzymExp(24) EnzymExp(29) LysosExp(29)
26) --> Acrobatics==> EndRdx(26) EndRdx(31)
28) --> Hasten==> Rechg(28) Rechg(33) Rechg(33)
30) --> Super Speed==> Run(30) EndRdx(33)
32) --> Steamy Mist==> EndRdx(32) EndRdx(34) DmgRes(34) DmgRes(34) DmgRes(36)
35) --> Tornado==> Dmg(35) Dmg(36) Dmg(36) EndRdx(37) Rechg(37) Rechg(37)
38) --> Shiver==> Acc(38) Acc(39) Rechg(39) Rechg(39) Slow(40) EndRdx(40)
41) --> Power Blast==> NucleExp(41) Acc(42) Dmg(42) Dmg(42) Rechg(43) Rechg(43)
44) --> Temp Invulnerability==> EndRdx(44) EndRdx(45) DmgRes(45) DmgRes(45) DmgRes(46)
47) --> Power Boost==> Rechg(47) Rechg(48) Rechg(48)
49) --> Conserve Power==> Rechg(49) Rechg(50) Rechg(50)
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01) --> Sprint==> EndRdx(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Empty(1)
01) --> Containment==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Empty(2)
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Archies build is focussed on slows which is also very good.

My own preferance is kill, kill, kill which means fire epic and both immobs. Thats playstyle.

What we both have in common is we maximize for the effect we want to do. We dont try to get as much utility as posible.

But there is also a lot of powers which are so good, you should pretty much always take them. A build without self heal cant funktion in 1on1's.

What is the main problems of ice storm?
Endurance, low dmg (for a controller) and no self heal.

Archy's solution gives a better endurance management than what I would go for. I go for more dmg than arch would. But we both cover one of the downfall of ice storm.

Here is my own fire/storm build. I would pretty much copy that into a Ice build.

Name:
Level: 50
Archetype: Controller
Primary: Fire Control
Secondary: Storm Summoning
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01) --> Ring of Fire==> Acc(1) Acc(3) Rechg(3) Rechg(5) EndRdx(5) EndRdx(7)
01) --> Gale==> Acc(1)
02) --> Char==> Acc(2) Acc(7) Hold(9) Hold(9) Rechg(11) Rechg(11)
04) --> Fire Cages==> Acc(4) Acc(13) Rechg(13) Rechg(15) EndRdx(15) EndRdx(17)
06) --> Smoke==> Acc(6) Acc(17) EndRdx(19) EndRdx(19) Rechg(21) Rechg(21)
08) --> Snow Storm==> EndRdx(8) EndRdx(23)
10) --> Steamy Mist==> EndRdx(10) EndRdx(23) EndRdx(25)
12) --> Combat Jumping==> Jump(12) Jump(25)
14) --> Super Jump==> EndRdx(14)
16) --> Freezing Rain==> EndRdx(16) EndRdx(27) Rechg(27) Rechg(29) Rechg(29)
18) --> Swift==> Run(18)
20) --> Hurricane==> LysosExp(20) EnzymExp(31) TH_DeBuf(31) EndRdx(31)
22) --> Hurdle==> Jump(22) Jump(46) Jump(50)
24) --> Stamina==> EndMod(24) EndMod(33) EndMod(33)
26) --> Acrobatics==> EndRdx(26) EndRdx(33)
28) --> Hasten==> Rechg(28) Rechg(34) Rechg(34)
30) --> Aid Other==> Heal(30)
32) --> Fire Imps==> Dmg(32) Dmg(34) Dmg(36) Acc(36) Rechg(36)
35) --> Tornado==> EndRdx(35) EndRdx(37) Dmg(37) Dmg(37) Dmg(39) Rechg(39)
38) --> Aid Self==> Heal(38) Heal(39) Heal(40) Rechg(40) IntRdx(40) IntRdx(42)
41) --> Fire Blast==> Acc(41) Acc(42) Dmg(42) Dmg(43) Dmg(43) Rechg(43)
44) --> Fire Ball==> Acc(44) Acc(45) Dmg(45) Dmg(45) Dmg(46) EndRdx(46)
47) --> Fire Shield==> DmgRes(47) DmgRes(48) DmgRes(48) EndRdx(48) EndRdx(50)
49) --> Super Speed==> EndRdx(49) Run(50)