Black Scorpion's Guide to Farewell Posts
By
Angry_Citizen,
Posted on: 2012-10-16 17:56 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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One cause of this is that if you log out during a TF (which includes any kind of AE mission, Ouro mission, etc.) the game considers you still logged in. You appear in the global friends list as apparently logged in but with no actual status.|
Originally Posted by Lobster
For years(?) there has been some kind of bug with the character age recording. I can't tell you what triggers it, but the result seems to be that the characters age (in hours) gets shifted one decimal point. So say a character that I just *coughPLd* will be 67 hours old. I didn't mind this so much for new alts...but it made it impossible to find out how much time I put into some of my old alts.
Any idea what was going on here? I reported this bug at least twice and I'm pretty sure the response both times was "there is no bug". |
You can test this by creating a level 1 character, starting an AE arc, logging out and then coming back in a day to see how "old" the character is.
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Wow. I'm gonna be honest, I was not expecting an answer. Thank you!|
Originally Posted by Black Scorpion
I'm guessing the stat being checked was total time, and the method you were checking that was clicking on an NPC and being told your total time that way. (if this is inaccurate let me know and I'll try to think about how that was done instead). It was pretty much just a count of seconds stored on your character and updated each time your character was saved to the db. If that count was accurate in the db, then the output method probably had some sort of bug - that was probably traceable. If the count was not correct in the db, then there was some sort of subtle db container bug - and that usually rated a complete table flip on the "scale of how hard this bug is going to be to fix" meter.
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Yes, I just checked via click on an "m-pc" (npc with name starting with M). I always wondered why there wasn't an easier way to get at that info...
I guess, if it was a db bug, it's a good thing the bug didn't spill over into anything else (noticeable!) then
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Originally Posted by rodion
One cause of this is that if you log out during a TF (which includes any kind of AE mission, Ouro mission, etc.) the game considers you still logged in. You appear in the global friends list as apparently logged in but with no actual status.
You can test this by creating a level 1 character, starting an AE arc, logging out and then coming back in a day to see how "old" the character is. |
(Also, I always wondered about those ghosts in the global list, thank you!)
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Hey! He wasn't a dog or a wolf. He was a coyote. His name was Whispering Coyote. You're remembering bits of his dialogue, which went like this:|
Originally Posted by Energizing_Ion
Uh, how about 'no'....
Maybe it was just me but Warburg seemed to have the "take more than 5 feet away from me and I'll stop following you" code (and no I didn't have stealth/invis on). There were some missions you could invis/stealth on, run a good distance away and the AI was still following you. Others....yeeesh...the stupid wolf dog in NW (Kii kiii or whatever) was almost the worst. *Takes 2 steps* I don't know where you are!?! help! *kicks dog...I'm right here!* Kii kii! |
Whispering Coyote: Ki-yi! We did it! Ki-yi!
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Originally Posted by Angry_Citizen
Wha.. what? That's not what I remember. Stealth didn't matter to them at all - I remember, because I ganked many stalkers who were running warburg codes with hide on. I also remember them following very well.
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Thanks BS we will miss you - currently under the weather so going to bed in a minute - but wanted to see if a miricale had happened 
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... Wait... Im having a flashback now...|
Originally Posted by Black Scorpion
And I am also pretty sure they contributed to streakbreaker, so it was probably undesired that such things were happening off "powers system trickery" like the above.
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I may remember this loosely, but I think when Dark Melee got ported for Tankers, someone complained that the streak breaker had to be broken...
Arcanaville, like always, did her usual math magic and determined that not to be true, that all statistics pointed for streak breaker to be working properly...
Is there a chance she never tested it against crowds and that the complaint was right: streak breaker was not working for tankers since it was wasted on invisible taunt checks???
Is another possibility that I just remember everything wrong ?
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I don't believe I posted a streakbreaker test within that context. The streakbreaker doesn't really work as expected with tanker single target attacks because they are not really single target attacks and, as Black Scorpion states, roll tohit rolls against multiple targets.|
Originally Posted by Starsman
... Wait... Im having a flashback now...
I may remember this loosely, but I think when Dark Melee got ported for Tankers, someone complained that the streak breaker had to be broken... Arcanaville, like always, did her usual math magic and determined that not to be true, that all statistics pointed for streak breaker to be working properly... Is there a chance she never tested it against crowds and that the complaint was right: streak breaker was not working for tankers since it was wasted on invisible taunt checks??? Is another possibility that I just remember everything wrong ? |
Something many players don't necessarily fully appreciate is that the gauntlet effect in tanker attacks is not autohit: it has to actually make a successful tohit roll against the target, albeit with a 20% bonus to the tohit roll. Those rolls count because, to be frank, there's no specific reason for them not to count. It may be an undesirable behavior, but to change it would require an explicit exemption somehow coded into the streakbreaker; this is not a case of the streakbreaker "not working."
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There are a few reasons I'd have liked to see a full AT/Powerset respec:|
Originally Posted by Black Scorpion
Technically, if we had done it it would likely have been similar to a respec/second build process but with resetting even more decisions on the part of character creation. 50% of the work would have been in UI at least. Likely it would have been presented a high value MTX to cover the amount of work that would need to go into it, but even then it was likely to be too rare to pay for itself, I imagine. (And the opportunity costs of someone full respeccing instead of making an alt also came up in discussions)
Design wise, it also wasn't being pushed for because a) it did have a high technical cost, and b) we didn't want to diminish the value of alts. If we had managed to get more of an account wide inventory concept, a lot of the reason to full respec would have gone away, in my opinion, and I tended to push more on that angle because it seemed a closer goal. |
First, some characters were made in concept and then kind of shoved into what CoH allowed at that moment. I knew someone with a character that was just supposed to be "tough", but Invulnerability was the only thing that approximated that. Then Willpower came out. She had to delete and recreate the character, losing all her badges (including irreplaceable ones like anniversary badges, SG join dates, and prestige totals). Another long-time player that I knew of, wanted to be a water blaster, and made due with Energy Blast the entire time. I don't even think that player was still around by the time Water Blast came out, but if they were, they'd have had to remake the character, losing 8 years of history to be how they were intended to be in the beginning. I had an Inv/SS Tanker and an SS/Inv Brute that should have been the opposite (the former being more reckless and stronger, the latter being more methodical and tougher), but that wasn't possible until Going Rogue. Once Going Rogue came, I couldn't just rename them and have them switch sides, either, because they didn't share the same origin type. So, it would have been nice to have that option to "fix" characters instead of remaking them and losing everything they had (I still haven't finished getting all the accolades that I had on the remade former Tanker, now Hero Brute).
Second, if you did it using alternate builds, it would have allowed people to make character concepts that were more versatile than CoH allowed, with no balance impact (since you can only swap at trainers). I knew one player that had a character that was supposed to be a weaponmaster, and she had 3 or 4 different versions of him with a slight name misspelling to represent it. That being said, I'd have preferred this version require you to actually level up that alternate build without losing the original build's level, not instantly have a level 50 whatever/whatever, as I think that would reduce their total play time and allow them to burn their interest out much faster. I don't think I, personally, would have used that, as my concepts are usually pretty narrow, and the Primary/Secondary/Pool/Epic format provided everything I needed.
Third, some people just don't care about alts, and only want one character. When those people hit the maximum power level, with no more progression, it can be just a matter of time before they lose interest in the game. Being able to take that one character and use it to progress in another build would create a lot of replay value for them. It's not something I'd do, as I'm concept driven, and am not the type to make a "Liquid" character and just give him whatever powers I feel like having at the moment, but I think there's a significant portion of the population that would do that.
Anyway, it's cool that you even considered it. Thanks for the response!
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I understand, and actually I should say it was not really your error (and again, I may remember it very wrong) but I think I recall the poster claiming that he had too many misses in a row, more than he "should" if the system was working as we know it should (since streakbreaker prevents too many misses in a row.) |
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I don't believe I posted a streakbreaker test within that context. The streakbreaker doesn't really work as expected with tanker single target attacks because they are not really single target attacks and, as Black Scorpion states, roll tohit rolls against multiple targets.
Something many players don't necessarily fully appreciate is that the gauntlet effect in tanker attacks is not autohit: it has to actually make a successful tohit roll against the target, albeit with a 20% bonus to the tohit roll. Those rolls count because, to be frank, there's no specific reason for them not to count. It may be an undesirable behavior, but to change it would require an explicit exemption somehow coded into the streakbreaker; this is not a case of the streakbreaker "not working." |
I'm just thinking the user might have been doing his testing with at least two enemies in range (perhaps never mentioning it,) hiding the actions of the streakbreaker.
The only reason I remember the incident, as vaguely as I do, is because it was the last time I personally saw a "accuracy been nerfed!" thread.
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Almost certainly a bug with a misplaced door volume or some such, or an unfinished easter egg plaque. Game thinks your cursor is over an interactable, but there's nothing actually hooked up to it. If it had the door prop it would have done the generic "You Cannot Enter." Would have to look at the map itself in the editor to know why.
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Originally Posted by Interface
Thanks for the info. This, right here, embodies two of the best things about CoH; that the devs were constantly coming up with more quality of life improvements, and that they actually talk to to the players. Most game designers seem to think the players should be thanking them for taking their money.
If you're still there, there's one tiny thing that's been bothering me for months now. In Studio 55, on the middle floor is a small off the way bar with a pair of restroom doors. Over the ladies' room door is a select volume (the cursor turns to a blue hand), although clicking it does nothing. http://i.imgur.com/8KkEP.jpg What was planned for this? Would Bobcat run over and attack if a male character clicks it? An unmarked mission where Snakes slither out of the toilets? Personally, I was envisioning a Deus Ex type scenario the next time you talk to Calvin Scott. "By the way, $name, stay out of the ladies restroom. That kind of activity embarrasses the Resistance more than it does you." |
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I'd have to look at when they got put into the map files for a more accurate guess, but some point (pre I15) Praetoria was just a 1-7 early game experience, so them being Rift Enclosure exits makes sense. Strange they would have shown up so early, though.
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Originally Posted by Codewalker
Thanks for posting all this, Black Scorpion. Some very interesting insights here.
Speaking of odd things in maps, any idea what (if anything) was planned for the hidden, normally inaccessible portal warehouses in King's Row and Port Oakes? The ones in Talos and Sharkhead that only Praetorians can get into kind of make sense if they were intended to be Rift Enclosure transit points before that got scrapped, or possibly the destination for the Go to Primal Earth mission, even if the door isn't the same place as the transition missions drop you off at. |
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We had no effective means of counting pet management, so as part of the design we gave a AT weighting factor to MMs (and a lesser one to some other ATs IIRC). We tuned it up several times, but it became difficult to judge if it was at a good place or not because a lot of the feedback was mixed between how it had been and how it was after the changes. I would have been interested to know if it was still happening after about the first or second patch following Keyes, which is when we increased the MM weighting factor. Sorry for the lousy player experience on that.
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Originally Posted by MrsAlphaOne
AAH but it was completely broken when it came to Masterminds. They did not calculate Pet involvement. My husband ran a Merc/FF MM during Itrials and if he wasn't constantly spamming bubbles he got the "Thanks for coming" Table. Even if he was actively managing his pets and not guarding and charging.
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The actual point where MARTY would kick in and stop you was extremely, extremely high, by design. Lower (but still high) rates drew our attention, but didn't engage the panic button. As we resolved the biggest systemic issues, we would have reevaluated the rates over time.
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Originally Posted by Rent_
Black Scorpion, can you tell me a bit about MARTY? What did you Devs consider 'too fast' for powerlevelling? And when would the XP start to be restricted. I was still powerlevelling characters quite fast and never noticed any reduced XP.
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Thank you for everything!
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thanks for the answer! Makes total sense now.
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Indeed. Very few things in this game ever infuriated me. I mean, hell, it's a game, right?. But I wanted to murder those Scientists just about every time I went for a nuke, even if I was playing a hero. In contrast, most mission hostages would only follow you if you weren't hidden, but they were almost never as flaky as the Warburg ones about actually following you over uneven terrain. (They were flaky, but not that flaky.)
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Originally Posted by Ironblade
The scientists in Warburg were really odd. Unlike most escorts, they could follow you perfectly well while you were invisible. But they could also get stuck on the tiniest piece of rubble in the street.
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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
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Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Is this enough info?|
Originally Posted by Black Scorpion
Almost certainly a bug with a misplaced door volume or some such, or an unfinished easter egg plaque. Game thinks your cursor is over an interactable, but there's nothing actually hooked up to it. If it had the door prop it would have done the generic "You Cannot Enter." Would have to look at the map itself in the editor to know why.
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I'm not sure why Studio 55 gets so dark in there, but it looks like a collision wall in the plaques layer.
Thank you for everything!
Thanks, Scorpion. ALL the devs were wonderful, but you were one of the ones who stood out for trying to make the entire game experience better for all players. We appreciate everything you put into this game, and hearing some of the things you had planned to address puts a smile on my even with circumstances being what they are. I hope you land at a studio where you're truly appreciated, because you did one amazing job while you were here.
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Some of us are crazy and log every single trial result....|
Originally Posted by Black Scorpion
We had no effective means of counting pet management, so as part of the design we gave a AT weighting factor to MMs (and a lesser one to some other ATs IIRC). We tuned it up several times, but it became difficult to judge if it was at a good place or not because a lot of the feedback was mixed between how it had been and how it was after the changes. I would have been interested to know if it was still happening after about the first or second patch following Keyes, which is when we increased the MM weighting factor. Sorry for the lousy player experience on that.
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Myself and a few others posted our data several times, I don't think I ever saw a dev comment specifically on it.
FWIW, after the 3rd or 4th 'bump', MM rewards did seem to get a bit more normal.
Before the first fix, my MMs got ~70% commons for BAF and Lam. After the 2nd or 3rd it was down to ~50% commons. My closing, complete (include pre & post-patch #s) average was ~55% commons for mms, over all trials. One flukey (?) stalker had the same average, every other AT was < 35% commons.
Thanks for continually striving towards parity
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Thanks for the info. My rants about how MMs weren't being balanced correctly with regard to rewards is now vindicated! |
Originally Posted by Black Scorpion
We had no effective means of counting pet management, so as part of the design we gave a AT weighting factor to MMs (and a lesser one to some other ATs IIRC). We tuned it up several times, but it became difficult to judge if it was at a good place or not because a lot of the feedback was mixed between how it had been and how it was after the changes. I would have been interested to know if it was still happening after about the first or second patch following Keyes, which is when we increased the MM weighting factor. Sorry for the lousy player experience on that.
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BTW... what was the deal with different reward tables for Praetorian events? I had solo toons that completed them successfully and sometimes did get the high reward table and sometimes not. I swore up and down that they weren't working right for MM, also.
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Thanks for the info. My rants about how MMs weren't being balanced correctly with regard to rewards is now vindicated!
BTW... what was the deal with different reward tables for Praetorian events? I had solo toons that completed them successfully and sometimes did get the high reward table and sometimes not. I swore up and down that they weren't working right for MM, also. |
It was not just the MMs. Characters with good AoE damage were much faster at unlocking both Lore and Destiny. A low damage defender could be as slow as an MM. Hard to draw a direct comparison, to many variables, I ran my Fire blaster and Ice blaster back to back. Half way through the 7th Lambda, fire blaster gets the unlock, it was at the end of the 8th for the Icer. Same with my defenders, all the ones with AoEs leveled through the incarnate XP faster than those that did not. I remember reading a statement about tagging the mobs had no affect, I disagree, nothing like fireball to speed things up.
When did you experience that ResplendentMs?
When the trials first launched, the IXP was split evenly among team members, however it was not split evenly between the teams within the league. It was using the same rewards dividing code that it did outside of a league, just like if the teams were independent and attacking each other's mobs in Perez Park.
So if the team you were on did lots of damage to lots of mobs (say it had several fire blasters), you'd get a lot more IXP. Same thing in a BAF if you assigned team roles -- if team 3 got assigned to deal with ambushes while 1 and 2 stayed on the AVs, team 3 got much more IXP.
Eventually it was changed to split the IXP evenly among the entire league. It was around the time the second wave of trials came out IIRC.
I have no data to back it up, but always had the feeling that better drops on the trials came the more aggro I could generate. My fire/shield scrapper t4'd really quickly and gets awesome drops compared to my fire/traps corr even though the corr is extremely efficient in trials(I assume its because of the reliance on dropping "pets").
I realize it is ridiculous, but I swear that is how it feels. Much like Dark Melee always felt like it was missing back when I played it.
I've leveled character through the iTrials from day one till now. Just my observation, AoEs mattered. It was more consistent on the Lambda than the BAF. The BAF having 2 basic strategies, tennis court or north wall. Also, hard to convince me the AT did not matter. Ran 25 trials with my Warshade before I got my first rare drop. I could not believe one BAF run despite using my WS, the dwarf since it has taunt, to pull the AVs, fought the whole, got %5 on the xp bar, minimum rewards, probably because of the fluffies. Even on a UG after, the rare, very rare guaranty, got an uncommon, sent bug report, no help. After a bunch more UGs, had to break down very rares just to get the rares to build T3s. Like SinisterDirge, I have no real data, did keep track of what it took for some characters not all, so it only comes under personal observations.
Black Scorpion, can you tell me a bit about MARTY? What did you Devs consider 'too fast' for powerlevelling? And when would the XP start to be restricted. I was still powerlevelling characters quite fast and never noticed any reduced XP.
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