So, when City of Heroes is saved what will you do?
I'll probably do the usual stuff - re-sub, make a celebratory character, drink lots of beer etc
I'll also buy a copy of GW2, as the only way that this game will be able to continue is if NCsoft allow it to happen basically.
If they do, I'll be true to my word and continue to buy NCsoft products, and GW2 would be something that I would have bought under normal circumstances.
Proud member of FOXBASE ALPHA and coalition associates.
Hero 50's - 25
Villain 50's - 1
I don't really understand the question, because the premise is flawed. NCSoft doesn't want the game, and the players because of how that decision was handled don't want NCSoft.
Therefore, should the game be saved, it'll be on new servers in a new building, possibly independent and not reported on these forums which will be gone. In addition to that, any iteration of the game will not be CoH as you know it. It cannot. If NCSoft considers the game engine proprietary software, then a new engine needs to be coded. If NCSoft considers that the physical hardware of the game cannot be removed and relocated, all characters will be deleted. Even if Titan Network's program to save characters is used on a broad and extensive basis, it will take significant time to re-establish all those characters with all those badges, all those rewards and all those benefits back onto servers. There is a ridiculous amounts of ifs in this situation and it's frankly naive to think a switch will be flipped and CoH will continue as is. This whole notion really needs to be disabused from people's perspectives. |
![Smile](images/smilies/smile.gif)
No one is going to die if we don't fill up every single thread on the forums with the same exact arguments, over and over and over and over.
Cryptic completely washed their hands of the game when they left NCSoft. The above rumor was debunked by Jack Emmert himself. In other words, Cryptic would have no say in any of these negotiations. None of this is even remotely related to Cryptic.
@Captain-Electric � Detective Marvel � The Sapien Spider � Moravec Man � The Old Norseman
Dark-Eyes � Doctor Serpentine � Stonecaster � Skymaiden � The Blue Jaguar
Guide to Altitis � A Comic for New Players � The Lore Project � Intro to extraterrestrials in CoH
All the usual caveats about "whenever, however, whoever"...
But...
1) Subscribe for a 12 month stretch on my main account. Maybe the same on my second.
2) Write to NCsoft to say thank you for allowing it.
3) Get Hybrid unlocked on my main.
4) Level my main villain to 50 (finally) and incarnate him.
The wisdom of Shadowe: Ghostraptor: The Shadowe is wise ...; FFM: Shadowe is no longer wise.
![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
![Wink](images/smilies/wink.gif)
I'd love to get back the days when the biggest concerns about the game were what ATs need/don't need improvements and why the latest loading screen looks/doesn't look terrible.
As for what I'll actually be doing - why, playing, of course, but also breathing a sigh of relief at avoiding what almost happened.
Until then, I'll be keeping my fingers crossed, sending out messages to who I can (even though it's hard to type with my fingers crossed), and hoping I'll get to breathe that sigh of relief.
The point of the thread may have been to dream or to hope, but is it any less realistic than revenge fantasy threads, or does it pose any harm when we've already got many dozens of threads full of posters who are pointing out everything you just did? With all due respect (and that's not an empty gesture, hero
![]() No one is going to die if we don't fill up every single thread on the forums with the same exact arguments, over and over and over and over. |
And you could certainly try and address all my points, but the simple fact is that whereas I'm simply pointing out realistic hypotheticals based on past events and likely outcomes, you're simply arguing from the 'everything will be fine' perspective. It's a fact, plain and simple, that the game cannot and will not be the same game regardless of how positive the outcome is.
And I mean by that player confidence, player numbers, player interest, public interest, consumer interest, corporate interest and corporate investement are going to change here from this point on. Numbers will not magically restore. Numbers will not magically increase.
If the most positive outcome were likely, there would've been more people playing the game before the announcement. That's a simple fact. Regardless of whether the game was performing in the black or not, the numbers were the numbers and the game was leeching numbers just like it had before. This is a simple reality any iteration of the game has to address moving forward.
Sure, CoH might move forward with a core group of intensely loyal customers and continue to be a moderate performer, but the market for MMO's is on increasingly shaky ground. That too is a fact.
These are my ifs, sir. Not doom-crying or wishing ill on the game nor decrying the efforts of those in their attempts to save the game in some form. They're realities and questions that have to be faced and thought about now rather than any thought that a switch will be flicked and the game will be started again. Because it won't.
S.
Part of Sister Flame's Clickey-Clack Posse
Just an FYI, I don't have time to enter a protracted debate about this, so all I'm aiming to do here is correct a couple of misunderstandings.
you're simply arguing from the 'everything will be fine' perspective.
|
This is actually a very dangerous perspective, whether you're trying to stop a local neighborhood business from discontinuing a product, whether you're fighting zoning changes in your city, fighting for government reform, or fighting a big scary corporation's service disruption. Whenever the odds are stacked this high against you, you need to be many in number, very loud, very public, and very newsworthy. And you still might lose. But without those things, you certainly cannot win. For the long version of this, read here. The short version is, with every hint that the franchise producer has thrown our way, he has reminded us of one thing: we are his ammunition. The bulk of this fight rests on our shoulders. Not his.
It's a fact, plain and simple, that the game cannot and will not be the same game regardless of how positive the outcome is.
|
City of Heroes has peaked. No one will argue this. (Although, as unlikely as it is to happen here, I can name two MMOs who saw multiple "peaks" during their lifetimes, Ultima Online and Eve Online, both still alive and kicking and receiving updates.) And I've made no assumptions related to the realities you're forecasting. I think most of us are prepared to "cross that bridge when we get to it," including the franchise producer, obviously, otherwise he wouldn't be batting for us.
But do keep in mind, that assumptions on either side of the fence are only assumptions and nothing more. I've personally seen revivals of resources breath new life into Ultima Online, Eve Online, and City of Heroes long after these properties seemed forgotten. I know other games out there that I haven't played have enjoyed similar "mini-revivals" after their peaks, such as Vanguard and Anarchy Online. A new publisher might just give City of Heroes a steady home to live out its days with no more big issues, or we might see the complete opposite. You don't know what's going to happen if we win, and neither do I.
City of Heroes is still the world's most popular super powered MMORPG. It doesn't need to be peaking to earn millions of dollars every year.
Again, with all due respect, I think some people are coming at this from the angle of, "Well, things end, that's life, and I'm pretty okay with City of Heroes ending now, hey look at me, I got all these years out of it, so I think it may as well just end now." Well, what about the thousands of customers who've only been playing for three years? One year? Six months? And what about our eight-year vets who weren't really gamers to begin with, and can't imagine playing anything else? How about if I could just pick anything that you can't seem to get enough of (go ahead, take a few moments to think of a few things), and snap it away from you for good based on the simple reality that "It's old hat to me, I think you ought to be willing to move on now, too. How's them apples?"
Whenever thousands of customers are involved, you can't overlay your own personality and experience onto the situation before analyzing it, and then call your assumptions reasonable. This isn't about YOU or ME. This has NOTHING to do with YOUR life experiences. The ONLY thing that matters here is the fact that a business is discontinuing a service and a large number of that business's customers are demanding uproariously for the business to reconsider its decision. That's it. Period. "You did X. NO! We want Y!" This does not qualify any customer, ever, for an automatic victory, or even a compromise. But sitting quietly ALWAYS qualifies customers for getting what they demanded: nothing.
@Captain-Electric � Detective Marvel � The Sapien Spider � Moravec Man � The Old Norseman
Dark-Eyes � Doctor Serpentine � Stonecaster � Skymaiden � The Blue Jaguar
Guide to Altitis � A Comic for New Players � The Lore Project � Intro to extraterrestrials in CoH
To answer SuperOZ's question.
I'd get ready to answer the next threat to Paragon's safety with whatever hero I could make... It's a simplistic answer, but I'm a simple kind of guy when it comes down to it... |
Probably resume ******** about Inventions and reroll the last of my Blasters, a 42 Archery/Devices.
Then make another thread trying to figure out how to give Samuel Tow, the character, a decent Inventions build so he can deal with Dark Astoria. *edit* And tell all my old CoH buddies to come back, of course. |
It's so nice to know that some things may never change....
Altoholic - but a Blaster at Heart!
Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
"You gave us a world where we could fly. I can't thank you enough for that."
Continue my sub as usual (or however they want me to do that) and be the VIP I am.
And play it.
And be thankful.
Mike
/hopin' the Devs and Mods can be part of it if possible, of course, too.
//Oh, and continue to make new and strangely powered combinations and be successful at it.
///Still lookin' for that AoEinator type character... Not enough End to do it so far...
August 31, 2012. A Day that will Live in Infamy. Or Information. Possibly Influence. Well, Inf, anyway. Thank you, Paragon Studios, for what you did, and the enjoyment and camaraderie you brought.
This is houtex, aka Mike, signing off the forums. G'night all. - 10/26/2012
Well... perhaps I was premature about that whole 'signing off' thing... - 11-9-2012
Resubscribe, argue with people on the forums, flip out and kill ****.
Be well, people of CoH.
![](http://pages.suddenlink.net/dmweb/sig1.jpg)
If it gets saved I'll be forced to make a difficult decision about whether or not to stick with it.
|
I was getting close to (general gaming) burnout prior to this and was already toying with the notion of reduced playtime; possibly even dropping to Freemium.
Then this hit and punctuated part of the reason behind my burnout; 'Castles of Sand' and such.
In the event that things work out in our favor; I'll probably stick to the short game; 1-35 and spend for character slots and/or other perks.
Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars
![Big Grin](images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
Just an FYI, I don't have time to enter a protracted debate about this, so all I'm aiming to do here is correct a couple of misunderstandings.
No. No. No. This is actually a very dangerous perspective, whether you're trying to stop a local neighborhood business from discontinuing a product, whether you're fighting zoning changes in your city, fighting for government reform, or fighting a big scary corporation's service disruption. Whenever the odds are stacked this high against you, you need to be many in number, very loud, very public, and very newsworthy. And you still might lose. But without those things, you certainly cannot win. For the long version of this, read here. The short version is, with every hint that the franchise producer has thrown our way, he has reminded us of one thing: we are his ammunition. The bulk of this fight rests on our shoulders. Not his. |
My statement about the attitude displayed is the one probably the most prevalent on the forums, followed closely behind by 'I'm angry at NCSoft, I want revenge'. Some would argue (and I can speak from personal experience) that these are stages of grief being played out and I'm not going to deny that they are genuine. What I am and will always take issue with is no clarification of these points. I do honestly believe a lot of people will think that the solution will be that the game will be switched back on, without pause, without change, and things will continue unabated. It really genuinely needs to be made clear that there will be casualties. Some people from Paragon Studios will possibly choose to find other employment. Zwillinger himself acknowledged that even if CoH is resurrected under some other banner, he would most likely not be part of Paragon Studios. It's just the nature of the beast.
All I really want is an acknowledgement that the game isn't being reborn, it's being recreated. And not everyone may like the form in which it takes, because by its very nature the game won't be the same. I'd rather have people prepared for that than a storm of rage posting on whatever forums the game migrated to about how much things have changed.
I'm singling this line out not to dishonestly "selectively quote" you (lame tactic that gets used a lot on these forums), but because I think a lot of what you typed afterward was backing this line up. And it's all worth considering. Probably not in this thread, but okay, now that we're here, what the Hades.
City of Heroes has peaked. No one will argue this. (Although, as unlikely as it is to happen here, I can name two MMOs who saw multiple "peaks" during their lifetimes, Ultima Online and Eve Online, both still alive and kicking and receiving updates.) And I've made no assumptions related to the realities you're forecasting. I think most of us are prepared to "cross that bridge when we get to it," including the franchise producer, obviously, otherwise he wouldn't be batting for us. But do keep in mind, that assumptions on either side of the fence are only assumptions and nothing more. I've personally seen revivals of resources breath new life into Ultima Online, Eve Online, and City of Heroes long after these properties seemed forgotten. I know other games out there that I haven't played have enjoyed similar "mini-revivals" after their peaks, such as Vanguard and Anarchy Online. A new publisher might just give City of Heroes a steady home to live out its days with no more big issues, or we might see the complete opposite. You don't know what's going to happen if we win, and neither do I. City of Heroes is still the world's most popular super powered MMORPG. It doesn't need to be peaking to earn millions of dollars every year. Again, with all due respect, I think some people are coming at this from the angle of, "Well, things end, that's life, and I'm pretty okay with City of Heroes ending now, hey look at me, I got all these years out of it, so I think it may as well just end now." Well, what about the thousands of customers who've only been playing for three years? One year? Six months? And what about our eight-year vets who weren't really gamers to begin with, and can't imagine playing anything else? How about if I could just pick anything that you can't seem to get enough of (go ahead, take a few moments to think of a few things), and snap it away from you for good based on the simple reality that "It's old hat to me, I think you ought to be willing to move on now, too. How's them apples?" Whenever thousands of customers are involved, you can't overlay your own personality and experience onto the situation before analyzing it, and then call your assumptions reasonable. This isn't about YOU or ME. This has NOTHING to do with YOUR life experiences. The ONLY thing that matters here is the fact that a business is discontinuing a service and a large number of that business's customers are demanding uproariously for the business to reconsider its decision. That's it. Period. "You did X. NO! We want Y!" This does not qualify any customer, ever, for an automatic victory, or even a compromise. But sitting quietly ALWAYS qualifies customers for getting what they demanded: nothing. |
I would like to say though that I do honestly feel that the era of CoH 1.0 (and that's my subjective viewing of what's happening) is over. I can understand the desire for casual gamers, new players, veteran players and complete newbies to the game to play it. But I'm also not going to sit here and say there aren't alternatives, because to do that would inherently denigrate and demean many stellar games, some even smaller and older than this (Asheron's Call, for instance) that are welcoming, friendly, playable and just as worthy of community support in their own spheres.
Yes, City of Heroes is special because of the passionate community behind it, but we are not unique. And Cap...I mentioned in another thread about not being too upset about this game being gone, because from my perspective and having lost my parents and having experienced that loss, this isn't remotely on the scale from my personal experience. So when you say how would I feel if something else I was passionate about was taken from me and 'how about them apples?' I'd be sad, sir. And if it wasn't able to be returned to me, I'd mourn it. But I have personally mourned far worse, and I survived. And I became a stronger and better person for it and have a deeper understanding of what that means, even if I didnt want the original experience.
I am by no means sitting here and saying my experience makes me morally superior or gives me a sense of entitlement to dictate how people should feel. I would not even dare to be that presumptuous. I also know you're not criticising me personally for my views, because as you say, I backed up what I said.
Ultimately, I'm only responsible for my own emotional reactions and responses to things. I can't control how passionately people will and do feel about losing this game, from one extreme of not being too upset to the other of being emotionally devastated. I've tried only speaking for myself and hopefully have asked politely to step back a little from something terribly emotional to try and get some perspective, as I think that's always a good thing to do, no matter the circumstance.
I think you hit the nail on the head, though. People are on both and all sides of the fence overlaying their personal experiences into this situation, and that brings its share of problems. I didn't start making any comments until I worked out somewhat how I felt about the news and the reactions to it, and I feel comfortable in the space in which I'm doing it.
I think it'd be nice if more people did the same if for no other reason than their own peace of mind.
S.
Part of Sister Flame's Clickey-Clack Posse
Remake the toons and play it like its a new game of
![](http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll291/EndNewt/City%20of%20X/BannerASDFStyle.png)
Unpacking my boxes in my office.
-Hosun "Black Pebble" Lee
Help me beat Dr. Aeon! Follow me on Twitter.
https://twitter.com/hosunl
Go back to on/off forum posting, and do whatever I feel like in game, instead of spending a lot of forum time cheerleading. Speaking of which.
Reminder! The game is not saved yet! The first Positron's Ally event is tonight!
Also consider sending NCsoft an e-mail urging them to sell the game if you haven't yet. They set up an e-mail just for us at COHSunset@ncsoft.com
Is it a black hole? I don't know! I sent one anyway.
Tell anyone who doesn't know about these. And the Titan Forum is also a good source of organization/stuff to do.
Culex's resistance guide
Give the news to my kids, and there would be much joyful noise.
Global name: @k26dp
Mike
/skipped the thread from here to just reply to that.
//Assumption: the office is the one at Paragon Studios in the first place.
![Smile](images/smilies/smile.gif)
///For all I know, it could be a new job elsewhere... lil' sad for that, but hey, you gotta work, so it's still fairly fantastic, I'd say.
////Goodness, now I just don't know if I've saved this post or not.... You all probably know what I mean... I guess... I'm just gonna exit stage right now...
August 31, 2012. A Day that will Live in Infamy. Or Information. Possibly Influence. Well, Inf, anyway. Thank you, Paragon Studios, for what you did, and the enjoyment and camaraderie you brought.
This is houtex, aka Mike, signing off the forums. G'night all. - 10/26/2012
Well... perhaps I was premature about that whole 'signing off' thing... - 11-9-2012
Resub as I had planned and continue playing as before.
@bpphantom
The Defenders of Paragon
KGB Special Section 8
Make a Water Blast/Ice Manipulation Blaster named "Resurgence" and play him to 50 and Incarnate him out before doing anything else.
American Dawg, Starblaze, Neanderthal Joe, Shining Dawn, Tokamak Dragon, Stinger Incarnate, Burning Tyger, Dover Tornado, Big Roach, Dark Paladin, Archmage Wylde, Kings Row Hornet, Prancing Deer
Avogadro, Science Lord
Edgar Nightcraft, Doc Cicada, Chupa Macabre, Dr Forchtenstein, Blood Shrew
Resub and get back into the action by trying to take over the multiverse....yup you guessed it...Villain at heart.
Create a VIP account for my GF's daughter so we could play together.
Followed by much happiness and dancing!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xo-tWlETq8w
"You wear a mask to hide who you are, I wear a mask to show who I am"
Arc ID 91456: The Zombie Apocalypse Task Force:poster 1, poster 2
![](http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd198/XxBudweiser8xX/554602_4382542800284_2089915220_n.jpg)
CLICK THE ABOVE LINK TO HELP DO YOUR PART TO SAVE C.O.H!!!!!
I would continue doing what I have always done. Sub to VIP, buy Paragon Points, hang with my great friends, collect art and maybe take a trip down to Mountain View and help Paragon Studios unpack their boxes.
"You wear a mask to hide who you are, I wear a mask to show who I am"
Arc ID 91456: The Zombie Apocalypse Task Force:poster 1, poster 2
![](http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd198/XxBudweiser8xX/554602_4382542800284_2089915220_n.jpg)
CLICK THE ABOVE LINK TO HELP DO YOUR PART TO SAVE C.O.H!!!!!
Probably resume ******** about Inventions and reroll the last of my Blasters, a 42 Archery/Devices.
Then make another thread trying to figure out how to give Samuel Tow, the character, a decent Inventions build so he can deal with Dark Astoria.
*edit*
And tell all my old CoH buddies to come back, of course.