So, when City of Heroes is saved what will you do?

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

The point of the thread may have been to dream or to hope, but is it any less realistic than revenge fantasy threads, or does it pose any harm when we've already got many dozens of threads full of posters who are pointing out everything you just did? With all due respect (and that's not an empty gesture, hero ) I could list a counter-argument for every single one of your points (like the fact that the City of franchise producer is still negotiating with NCSoft for our game and he has not been told "no" yet), or how a complete divestiture package is likely to come with the game and all related data intact, just like it has almost any time in history when an MMO has changed hands, but the simple fact is, almost every other thread out there is full of those discussions already.

No one is going to die if we don't fill up every single thread on the forums with the same exact arguments, over and over and over and over.

Cryptic completely washed their hands of the game when they left NCSoft. The above rumor was debunked by Jack Emmert himself. In other words, Cryptic would have no say in any of these negotiations. None of this is even remotely related to Cryptic.

We've clashed in the past (heck, I think everyone's clashed with you to some degree), but... this made me laugh. It was perfect.

I'd love to get back the days when the biggest concerns about the game were what ATs need/don't need improvements and why the latest loading screen looks/doesn't look terrible.

As for what I'll actually be doing - why, playing, of course, but also breathing a sigh of relief at avoiding what almost happened.

Until then, I'll be keeping my fingers crossed, sending out messages to who I can (even though it's hard to type with my fingers crossed), and hoping I'll get to breathe that sigh of relief.

I'm not saying it's wrong to hope whatsoever, Captain. I am hopeful that something positive can be worked out for the game's future, but I am not going to indulge false hopes or fantasies.

And you could certainly try and address all my points, but the simple fact is that whereas I'm simply pointing out realistic hypotheticals based on past events and likely outcomes, you're simply arguing from the 'everything will be fine' perspective. It's a fact, plain and simple, that the game cannot and will not be the same game regardless of how positive the outcome is.

And I mean by that player confidence, player numbers, player interest, public interest, consumer interest, corporate interest and corporate investement are going to change here from this point on. Numbers will not magically restore. Numbers will not magically increase.

If the most positive outcome were likely, there would've been more people playing the game before the announcement. That's a simple fact. Regardless of whether the game was performing in the black or not, the numbers were the numbers and the game was leeching numbers just like it had before. This is a simple reality any iteration of the game has to address moving forward.

Sure, CoH might move forward with a core group of intensely loyal customers and continue to be a moderate performer, but the market for MMO's is on increasingly shaky ground. That too is a fact.

These are my ifs, sir. Not doom-crying or wishing ill on the game nor decrying the efforts of those in their attempts to save the game in some form. They're realities and questions that have to be faced and thought about now rather than any thought that a switch will be flicked and the game will be started again. Because it won't.



S.

If it gets saved and if it means an independent decoupled Paragon Studios (or reformed organization of similar developers under a different name), I'd very quickly lay out several hundred bucks in a points purchase in addition to a resubscription.

No. No. No.

This is actually a very dangerous perspective, whether you're trying to stop a local neighborhood business from discontinuing a product, whether you're fighting zoning changes in your city, fighting for government reform, or fighting a big scary corporation's service disruption. Whenever the odds are stacked this high against you, you need to be many in number, very loud, very public, and very newsworthy. And you still might lose. But without those things, you certainly cannot win. For the long version of this, read here. The short version is, with every hint that the franchise producer has thrown our way, he has reminded us of one thing: we are his ammunition. The bulk of this fight rests on our shoulders. Not his.

I'm singling this line out not to dishonestly "selectively quote" you (lame tactic that gets used a lot on these forums), but because I think a lot of what you typed afterward was backing this line up. And it's all worth considering. Probably not in this thread, but okay, now that we're here, what the Hades.

City of Heroes has peaked. No one will argue this. (Although, as unlikely as it is to happen here, I can name two MMOs who saw multiple "peaks" during their lifetimes, Ultima Online and Eve Online, both still alive and kicking and receiving updates.) And I've made no assumptions related to the realities you're forecasting. I think most of us are prepared to "cross that bridge when we get to it," including the franchise producer, obviously, otherwise he wouldn't be batting for us.

But do keep in mind, that assumptions on either side of the fence are only assumptions and nothing more. I've personally seen revivals of resources breath new life into Ultima Online, Eve Online, and City of Heroes long after these properties seemed forgotten. I know other games out there that I haven't played have enjoyed similar "mini-revivals" after their peaks, such as Vanguard and Anarchy Online. A new publisher might just give City of Heroes a steady home to live out its days with no more big issues, or we might see the complete opposite. You don't know what's going to happen if we win, and neither do I.

City of Heroes is still the world's most popular super powered MMORPG. It doesn't need to be peaking to earn millions of dollars every year.

Again, with all due respect, I think some people are coming at this from the angle of, "Well, things end, that's life, and I'm pretty okay with City of Heroes ending now, hey look at me, I got all these years out of it, so I think it may as well just end now." Well, what about the thousands of customers who've only been playing for three years? One year? Six months? And what about our eight-year vets who weren't really gamers to begin with, and can't imagine playing anything else? How about if I could just pick anything that you can't seem to get enough of (go ahead, take a few moments to think of a few things), and snap it away from you for good based on the simple reality that "It's old hat to me, I think you ought to be willing to move on now, too. How's them apples?"

Whenever thousands of customers are involved, you can't overlay your own personality and experience onto the situation before analyzing it, and then call your assumptions reasonable. This isn't about YOU or ME. This has NOTHING to do with YOUR life experiences. The ONLY thing that matters here is the fact that a business is discontinuing a service and a large number of that business's customers are demanding uproariously for the business to reconsider its decision. That's it. Period. "You did X. NO! We want Y!" This does not qualify any customer, ever, for an automatic victory, or even a compromise. But sitting quietly ALWAYS qualifies customers for getting what they demanded: nothing.

It's so nice to know that some things may never change....

Same.


I was getting close to (general gaming) burnout prior to this and was already toying with the notion of reduced playtime; possibly even dropping to Freemium.

Then this hit and punctuated part of the reason behind my burnout; 'Castles of Sand' and such.

In the event that things work out in our favor; I'll probably stick to the short game; 1-35 and spend for character slots and/or other perks.

I haven't got a problem with that, Captain. I'm not blind or even selectively blind to what's making the difference in terms of pressure on NCSoft to even enter negotiations. Honestly, City of Heroes is lucky to be in the situation of utilising social media to champion their cause because even five years ago, this would be a done deal and players would have no recourse.

My statement about the attitude displayed is the one probably the most prevalent on the forums, followed closely behind by 'I'm angry at NCSoft, I want revenge'. Some would argue (and I can speak from personal experience) that these are stages of grief being played out and I'm not going to deny that they are genuine. What I am and will always take issue with is no clarification of these points. I do honestly believe a lot of people will think that the solution will be that the game will be switched back on, without pause, without change, and things will continue unabated. It really genuinely needs to be made clear that there will be casualties. Some people from Paragon Studios will possibly choose to find other employment. Zwillinger himself acknowledged that even if CoH is resurrected under some other banner, he would most likely not be part of Paragon Studios. It's just the nature of the beast.

All I really want is an acknowledgement that the game isn't being reborn, it's being recreated. And not everyone may like the form in which it takes, because by its very nature the game won't be the same. I'd rather have people prepared for that than a storm of rage posting on whatever forums the game migrated to about how much things have changed.

All valid points that I have no issue with. I've contributed to the cause through signing petitions and writing a letter to NCSoft and attending what events where I can. I however accept that people like TonyV are the sorts of people with the right skillset and organisational skills to handle such movements, and I'll simply be present to lend my support against an unfair and unjust handling of a situation.

I would like to say though that I do honestly feel that the era of CoH 1.0 (and that's my subjective viewing of what's happening) is over. I can understand the desire for casual gamers, new players, veteran players and complete newbies to the game to play it. But I'm also not going to sit here and say there aren't alternatives, because to do that would inherently denigrate and demean many stellar games, some even smaller and older than this (Asheron's Call, for instance) that are welcoming, friendly, playable and just as worthy of community support in their own spheres.

Yes, City of Heroes is special because of the passionate community behind it, but we are not unique. And Cap...I mentioned in another thread about not being too upset about this game being gone, because from my perspective and having lost my parents and having experienced that loss, this isn't remotely on the scale from my personal experience. So when you say how would I feel if something else I was passionate about was taken from me and 'how about them apples?' I'd be sad, sir. And if it wasn't able to be returned to me, I'd mourn it. But I have personally mourned far worse, and I survived. And I became a stronger and better person for it and have a deeper understanding of what that means, even if I didnt want the original experience.

I am by no means sitting here and saying my experience makes me morally superior or gives me a sense of entitlement to dictate how people should feel. I would not even dare to be that presumptuous. I also know you're not criticising me personally for my views, because as you say, I backed up what I said.

Ultimately, I'm only responsible for my own emotional reactions and responses to things. I can't control how passionately people will and do feel about losing this game, from one extreme of not being too upset to the other of being emotionally devastated. I've tried only speaking for myself and hopefully have asked politely to step back a little from something terribly emotional to try and get some perspective, as I think that's always a good thing to do, no matter the circumstance.

I think you hit the nail on the head, though. People are on both and all sides of the fence overlaying their personal experiences into this situation, and that brings its share of problems. I didn't start making any comments until I worked out somewhat how I felt about the news and the reactions to it, and I feel comfortable in the space in which I'm doing it.

I think it'd be nice if more people did the same if for no other reason than their own peace of mind.



S.

This, minus the arguing with people on the forums.

Oh, that would be *fantastic*. Seriously.

Mike

/skipped the thread from here to just reply to that.
//Assumption: the office is the one at Paragon Studios in the first place.
///For all I know, it could be a new job elsewhere... lil' sad for that, but hey, you gotta work, so it's still fairly fantastic, I'd say.
////Goodness, now I just don't know if I've saved this post or not.... You all probably know what I mean... I guess... I'm just gonna exit stage right now...