Am I the only one not upset?
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2012-09-19 20:32 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Not just CoX. Shutting down argument is the way things are done these days. The more likely the point of view is correct the faster it has to be stifled.
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Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
Not trolling and communication 101, which I did take, did not deal with online internet COX game forum communication at all which seem to have it's own set of rules that change on whim and only apply to certain people.One thing I do beleive in which many in this forum do not seem to believe in, is freedom of speech.
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Yea, I suppose. WoW isnt any better nor worse. But I have had none of these issues on CO forums. Besides a few COX transplants over there saying how CO is doing it wrong and how it should be more like COX. And a few CO members "shooting down" any new COX refugee transplant they see. Disgruntled ex-COX player? Some of them are. Some of them heard about the crap this forum was talking about that game and how they would never go over there and such and now the sink is sinking, some went without hesitation. Then of course you have a few of them like some of the forum people here. But no where near as many in sheer numbers or ratio.
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Originally Posted by PPCGunner
Not just CoX. Shutting down argument is the way things are done these days. The more likely the point of view is correct the faster it has to be stifled.
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-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard.  Never change, E_L! |
You people do understand that freedom of speech only protects you from governmental retribution for sharing your opinions, right?
It doesn't mean that you can share any half-backed line of BS without being called out on it.
If someone decides to share with me their opinion that climate change isn't affected by humanity, that the earth is only 6000 years old, that man was pulled whole from the clay by some deity or that women aren't capable of becoming pregnant from "real ****," I'm going to mock them, belittle them and shut them down with facts until they shut up or leave.
People need to quit pretending that baseless opinions should be granted the same weight of respect that opinions based on logic and rationality are granted. And people really need to quit throwing out freedom of speech when they don't actually understand what it protects them from.
Be well, people of CoH.
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It isn't freedom of speech we are talking about. It's the inability of people to withstand challenges to their belief system without falling apart and reacting badly.
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
You people do understand that freedom of speech only protects you from governmental retribution for sharing your opinions, right?
It doesn't mean that you can share any half-backed line of BS without being called out on it. |
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Originally Posted by PPCGunner
It isn't freedom of speech we are talking about. It's the inability of people to withstand challenges to their belief system without falling apart and reacting badly.
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| One thing I do beleive in which many in this forum do not seem to believe in, is freedom of speech. |
As for reacting badly, folks react poorly when insulted. It's human nature. Either avoid insulting people, as the OP failed to do or the reactions that EL is harping on wouldn't exist, or deal with the reactions when they come. But please, do so without whining about imaginary attacks on one's freedom of speech.
Be well, people of CoH.
Responding to the original post's question:
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I am not upset by CoH's closing. The sudden announcement did surprise me, but even though I have/had a fondness for the game, I was not upset to hear that the game is shutting down. The niche of the game that I most enjoyed has been dead for a long time, but I still casually followed ongoing development on the case that it would ever again be addressed (I note this in response to the posts throughout the thread questioning why those who don't play/enjoy the game are even present on these forums at all). To quote from Positron's Issue 13 Letter to the Players:|
Originally Posted by BricksTown Thug15
Am I the only one not upset?
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Originally Posted by Positron
PvP from now on will be on our priority list. If something isn't working out, we'll be in there tweaking it and making it work, for the entire future of the product, not just Issue 13.
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City of Heroes has had a very slow (but persistent) decline over the years, and one would be foolish to attempt to pin responsibility for this decline on any one factor, but I've always felt that the development team's general lack of regard for systems that facilitate ongoing player-driven content and interaction was a poor strategy. Systems like base building, PvP and PvP zones, base raiding, and mission architect were all relatively quickly abandoned to decay, but it's systems like these that can really harness the unique potential of the MMO genre: players as content. That's my own backseat-developer retrospective assessment of the game, anyway.
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There is a good example. I didn't edit the whole quote and I thought I made my position clear. This is why I never bothered to deal with these boards in the past. You always see people being forced to spend incredible amounts of effort defending issues that have nothing to do with what they were saying. When they were able to move forward you would see the threads vanished. |
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
So why'd you quote his statement that ends with a sentence about freedom of speech?
As for reacting badly, folks react poorly when insulted. It's human nature. Either avoid insulting people, as the OP failed to do or the reactions that EL is harping on wouldn't exist, or deal with the reactions when they come. But please, do so without whining about imaginary attacks on one's freedom of speech. |
Let me toss a question at you, if you think about this it may just blow your mind. There is a real obvious reason why the game is being killed that hasn't been talked about at all. What is it ?
Oh, share with the class. What's the big and obvious reason that the game is being killed that no one has brought up yet? Blow my mind!
Be well, people of CoH.
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You see communication involves both sides trying to understand the other's point of view. I can't make the effort for you.
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Oh, share with the class. What's the big and obvious reason that the game is being killed that no one has brought up yet? Blow my mind!
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I was being serious. What's your thought? What hasn't been covered in all the other "why'd they kill CoH" threads? I'm honestly curious.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Yeah, I'm curious, too, because I've heard theories ranging from the stunningly obvious to serious tinfoil hattery. What has that range of discussion missed?
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
I was being serious. What's your thought? What hasn't been covered in all the other "why'd they kill CoH" threads? I'm honestly curious.
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@Glass Goblin - Writer, brainstormer, storyteller, hero
Though nothing will drive them away
We can beat them, just for one day
We can be heroes, just for one day
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It's extremely likely you're incorrect on two counts in this sentence, although I won't rule out three. So I'm also curious.|
Originally Posted by PPCGunner
There is a real obvious reason why the game is being killed that hasn't been talked about at all.
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(Although I will say, there are obvious answers like, "because going to war with Korea over it would be silly" or "because material resources are finite" that in fact haven't been discussed. In which case I have a response already selected.)
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Ok then, I'm talking about the protection of government thing. Yet, if it falls within the rules of the forums, which is written, then it should be fair game. And just because someone can and you think their view is BS and half baked, and you think your views are always 100% genius, doesnt mean you have to go out of your way to call it BS. That is the root of what I'm talking about. People like you who think their view is always 100% correct and untouchable while anyopne's elses that dont fall with that exact same view is BS. And that is the downfall of this community. I bet if we was stil raking in 9 million a quarter instead of a measely 2 million, this may not even be an issue of the end. Any ways what is certain is that this iteration of the game is done. The next iteration of the game probably will not last long either if the attitude does not change. How if you and people that think like you even going to develop a game if you are not even open to actual ideas outside your own. Maybe a few will play and maybe a few more will check it out. Think if the devs was not open to ideas as they was this game probably would of been gone. If you and people like you are planning on starting out like that then the game will not last 8 years and I can gurantee that if you cant be open to simple ideas that are different from your views. |
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
You people do understand that freedom of speech only protects you from governmental retribution for sharing your opinions, right?
It doesn't mean that you can share any half-backed line of BS without being called out on it. If someone decides to share with me their opinion that climate change isn't affected by humanity, that the earth is only 6000 years old, that man was pulled whole from the clay by some deity or that women aren't capable of becoming pregnant from "real ****," I'm going to mock them, belittle them and shut them down with facts until they shut up or leave. People need to quit pretending that baseless opinions should be granted the same weight of respect that opinions based on logic and rationality are granted. And people really need to quit throwing out freedom of speech when they don't actually understand what it protects them from. |
Even if you cant understand the other person views, doesnt make it BS. I dont get why you have to the anology that "Oh my opinion is right and thus is fact, while anyone else that dont fall in line with my view is totally abstract." just because you cant understand it, doesnt make it BS. It's just another way of looking at things. And at this rate, you people might get exactly what yu want just like the griefers in PVP got what they want. They wanted like minded people only be willing to play. In the end, like the PVP in this game, it was ghost town. What ever COX wanna be game you all come up with next, have at it and hope it last as long as possible so you cant keep your closed mindness and "I'm better than thou" attitude within that game and out of other games where the community is more open. Hell, WoW as nuts as they are, are more open minded there. CO is good too. Oh no, not COX and their closed mindness that cant see nor understand anything outside their view.
Whether or not you actually listen, I hope that no one puts money into the new iteration of the game, unless some company picks it up whole and have the actual mindset to listen to other ideas that are different from their own. If it going to be player financed by some of these guys, I have a feeling that group of players and investors will be in for a great loss until they can get off their high horse and understand there might be some other ideas out there or else, the game will never be made with the mindset many of these people display.
-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
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Thank you.
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Originally Posted by PPCGunner
You see communication involves both sides trying to understand the other's point of view. I can't make the effort for you.
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-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
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Ok how do you know the OP isnt reacting to being insulted? Hm? So then what, you insult back? and they insult back? and then you insult back? So tell me this, when is it suppose to end or is it suppose to be a forever ending insult fest?|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
So why'd you quote his statement that ends with a sentence about freedom of speech?
As for reacting badly, folks react poorly when insulted. It's human nature. Either avoid insulting people, as the OP failed to do or the reactions that EL is harping on wouldn't exist, or deal with the reactions when they come. But please, do so without whining about imaginary attacks on one's freedom of speech. |
ARe you one of those cocky vets? or one of the noobs? The way you are talking and insulting people seems to fit the bill. The truth hurts dont it?
See I can respond to insults with insults that is the easy part. But the hard part is communication here. because it seems that no one ever just want to SHUT THE **** UP AND LISTEN!
-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
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Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
See I can respond to insults with insults that is the easy part. But the hard part is communication here. because it seems that no one ever just want to SHUT THE **** UP AND LISTEN!
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Correct. I don't have to but I enjoy doing it from time to time.|
Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
And just because someone can and you think their view is BS and half baked, and you think your views are always 100% genius, doesnt mean you have to go out of your way to call it BS.
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| That is the root of what I'm talking about. People like you who think their view is always 100% correct and untouchable while anyopne's elses that dont fall with that exact same view is BS. And that is the downfall of this community. |
At least half of my 30000 posts were added to this forum in my first few years hanging out here and doing my damnedest to help out folks in the tech forum so that they could go on to loving the game instead of fighting bothersome tech issues. I just started a thread in the scrapper forum about using degenerative or reactive and received a lot of useful information without any BS at all.
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| I bet if we was stil raking in 9 million a quarter instead of a measely 2 million, this may not even be an issue of the end. Any ways what is certain is that this iteration of the game is done. The next iteration of the game probably will not last long either if the attitude does not change. How if you and people that think like you even going to develop a game if you are not even open to actual ideas outside your own. |
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| Maybe a few will play and maybe a few more will check it out. Think if the devs was not open to ideas as they was this game probably would of been gone. If you and people like you are planning on starting out like that then the game will not last 8 years and I can gurantee that if you cant be open to simple ideas that are different from your views. |
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| Even if you cant understand the other person views, doesnt make it BS. |
Other ideas are good when they're well thought out and worthwhile. Listening to the players is a good thing. Listening to garbage is a waste of time. Defending people that intentionally start crap for no other reason but to start crap and insult people is a waste of time.
All opinions are NOT equal and never will be.
The opinion that it's ok to piss on and mock those saddened by the loss of something is a baseless and idiotic opinion and THAT is what this thread is actually about.
It's not about the cliquishness of the forums. Cliques exists everywhere and this place is no exception. But to blame the closure of this game on the forums? That's just stupid.
Be well, people of CoH.
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I have no doubt that the OP responded poorly to being attacked for his post. That, too, would be normal behavior. When does it stop? By not starting **** in the first place. By thinking about the consequences of our words and actions before throwing them out there. I've done so with every post in this thread and will continue on that path until I get my point across or get bored trying.|
Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
Ok how do you know the OP isnt reacting to being insulted? Hm? So then what, you insult back? and they insult back? and then you insult back? So tell me this, when is it suppose to end or is it suppose to be a forever ending insult fest?
ARe you one of those cocky vets? or one of the noobs? The way you are talking and insulting people seems to fit the bill. The truth hurts dont it? See I can respond to insults with insults that is the easy part. But the hard part is communication here. because it seems that no one ever just want to SHUT THE **** UP AND LISTEN! |
I was cocky long before this game came around. Truth NEVER hurts me. I thrive on it. I thank people when they prove me wrong. I learn from such interactions. You have failed at every turn on that front so far.
You've given us no reason to listen to you. You've said nothing worthwhile yet. As soon as you do, I'll listen.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Tell you what I'll try to reach out myself on this.|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
I was being serious. What's your thought? What hasn't been covered in all the other "why'd they kill CoH" threads? I'm honestly curious.
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You have two broad categories for things that killed the game
1. No Harm, No Foul, Inevitable things that no one could do anything about.
Sub Categories.
A. Game was just too old
B. MMO market was tanking
C. Bad economy.
D. Other things that make no sense at all (Changes in the healthcare system)
There is how the game was doing and how others were. You draw your conclusions on that. I don't see a smoking gun.
Edit: CoX On its own
2. Actions by people or groups of people directly connected to the game.
A. The players taken as a group.
B. NCsoft as a corporation
C. The Developers of the game.
D. Outside group not enumerated.
A.) The players in the game not posting on the forums ? Not hardly. Even at this late date the player base is still organizing events trying to make the game as much fun as possible. I don't know another game with build tools or a wiki that's as good as ours. People quitting over the forums ? Not likely.
That leaves D, B,C. D is just a catch all. So we have NCSoft killed the game or Paragon Studios Killed the game.
Either is possible, NCsoft definitely declared it dead and made the funeral arrangements but did they kill the game ?
I was hoping for a blown mind... if you want me to throw out opinions on why CoH never got bigger and slowly fell to the point that NCSoft decided to write it all off, here's a couple to ponder:
Lack of advertising is at the top of my list.
The mishandling of the AE exploits that culminated in a tirade from the lead developer and all of the game account bannings that occurred shortly thereafter.
Jack Emmert's poor PR skills.
Horrific repetitiveness in mission objectives. (This was always a plus for me as all I ever wanted from this game was hordes of bad guys to cut down. EDIT and correction: I also wanted comparable rewards for time/effort for soloing instead of being shoehorned/guided/forced into teaming. This was, after all, the reason that CoH lost MY money.)
Player antipathy from ED, the GDN and the PvP nerfs of I-13.
Really, the list goes on and on but for, so I'm told, 100000 people, this was the best game around. It was profitable. Maybe it will be again but I'm not holding my breath. I'll just playing until I can't anymore, keep posting here until I can't anymore and remain very thankful to the player that made it possible for me to be VIP again until the end.
Be well, people of CoH.
I, too, was underwhelmed, like Bill. These reasons were already pointed out as the possibles. Mind isn't blown. Disappointing, as I'd duct-taped my head just in case. Now I'm gonna be hurtin' taking it off, and for that? Thanks. Thanks a lot.
Mike
August 31, 2012. A Day that will Live in Infamy. Or Information. Possibly Influence. Well, Inf, anyway. Thank you, Paragon Studios, for what you did, and the enjoyment and camaraderie you brought.
This is houtex, aka Mike, signing off the forums. G'night all. - 10/26/2012
Well... perhaps I was premature about that whole 'signing off' thing... - 11-9-2012
I'm not sure why people assume that those that didn't care about the game stopped playing immediately on 9/1/12. Really, some of the friends who I haven't seen since then were very passionate about the game. I think some can't bring themselves to play because it hurts too much.
I said in my "90 Days" thread, that I can't get too emotionally worked up about a game. Sure, I've played it far too much, and I wanted to play it a lot longer. I was shocked when the news broke. I hope it gets saved or returns in some fashion. But I never expected to play it forever, and it will do me good to do other things. I just want to have fun in the game while I still can.
I used to play Second Life a lot more than I have in the last 3-4 years. I had good friends, we had a house on the water, secret caves, an underwater tiki bar... I spent a lot of time building parts of it, and it was really cool and I had fun hanging out with my friends there. All of that's gone now, and I'm not in close contact with most of those friends -- I can still log into SL but most of those friends moved on to something else (which... guess I did too).
I played EQ for 3 years on the Test Server, I had a very tight guild of friends and to this day I still occasionally post to our guild message board even though the guild has been defunct for nearly 10 years. I can't really go back to those characters and friendships either.
Nothing lasts forever. I had more invested in this game than any other, it was nearly the perfect game for me, and I wish it wasn't coming to an end so soon or so abruptly. I'll be sad, but I'll survive. I've done almost everything I could have wanted in the game, so I don't have a lot of regrets at least. ^_^
If I can find another game that allows most of what this game did that I liked, I'll be happy. If it's put out by some of the people who put out this game, I'll be even happier. Some of the things I want: A) Up-front character customization, B) The ability to group at any level, C) The ability to take on many enemies at once and in general feel cool and powerful, D) no camping, E) a market place I enjoy, F) Excellent communication tools, G) Great animations. That's for starters. ^_^
my lil RWZ Challenge vid
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Really, so everything that killed the game was the result of events 5 or more years ago ?
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
I was hoping for a blown mind... if you want me to throw out opinions on why CoH never got bigger and slowly fell to the point that NCSoft decided to write it all off, here's a couple to ponder:
Lack of advertising is at the top of my list. The mishandling of the AE exploits that culminated in a tirade from the lead developer and all of the game account bannings that occurred shortly thereafter. Jack Emmert's poor PR skills. Horrific repetitiveness in mission objectives. (This was always a plus for me as all I ever wanted from this game was hordes of bad guys to cut down. EDIT and correction: I also wanted comparable rewards for time/effort for soloing instead of being shoehorned/guided/forced into teaming. This was, after all, the reason that CoH lost MY money.) Player antipathy from ED, the GDN and the PvP nerfs of I-13. Really, the list goes on and on but for, so I'm told, 100000 people, this was the best game around. It was profitable. Maybe it will be again but I'm not holding my breath. I'll just playing until I can't anymore, keep posting here until I can't anymore and remain very thankful to the player that made it possible for me to be VIP again until the end. |
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No, not everything. Throw freedom in there. Throw in how ridiculous it was to use a shard system for alpha and a thread system for the rest.|
Originally Posted by PPCGunner
Really, so everything that killed the game was the result of events 5 or more years ago ?
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What else have you got? You're the one that stated you had the mind blowing answer. Spit it out.
Be well, people of CoH.
The in-game community is in stark contrast compared to these forums, imo, and it is because I ignored what went on here that I continued to enjoy the game for so long. Do your best to ignore anything here and remember how much enjoyment the game brought you. It will be missed.