Am I the only one not upset?

Absolutely. I think Arcanaville's right about demorecord being one of our biggest untapped potentials; I also think that recovering or otherwise revitalizing the SG base system was another huge thing that kept getting pushed to the side because of the enormity of the task. Integrating player content into a whole framework -- player-created cutscenes in missions using demorecord scripting, as a small example -- would have been a major coup, even if we didn't see the benefits right away.

And base raids. Man, I was never really into PvP either pre- or post- i13, but it could have been glorious. That's another thing like ED where they really should have rolled out the changes more or less right alongside the new tech.

Heh. Yeah, there were a few times I really wanted to send Posi or somebody a copy of Designing Virtual Worlds with careful highlighting. But... it's always been a question of finite person-hours.

Yeah, I thought about that and not sure if even a funeral and this game's situation is easily comparable, although some aspects are.

See, the deceased=this game
Family=I assume would be the players
Forum=?public place that came with the game to express thoughts?
Funeral=usually private, and even then usually only certain people and or certain amount of people that is usually already pre-chosen.

But given that the OP has probably more and maybe less investment in this game, and maybe even paid money at one point, can say what he said. And another thing is that this is not a person that is dying here either. It's a game. Nonetheless, some people have emotional attachment to it, some more emotional attachment then they probably ever can show to a dead person, and to them it's like being at a funeral. That is why most funerals are private and the news are only told to friends and family. Even the ones that are public usually have an invite only to speak there and or must submit what you plan to say prior.

Unfortunately and fortunately, they did not keep the news of this game's death within the inner circles. They did not set aside a private area to grieve for the loss of the game, I guess TitanNetwork probably comes as close as possible to it right now as I think TonyV and his ilk have pretty tight leash on the ideas and stuff that is posted there and thus if this thread was there would of been removed within minutes and the OP probably would been banned for life there.

To me this is like of those places that is open to the public that non-smokers also enjoys, but smokers go there as well and light up. Is it right for a non-smoker to tell them to not to smoke? Depending on the side, you get different answers. I dont think this forum has a non-smoking section only aka--only hopfeul positive thoughts are allowed section. All a person can do is stay away especially if they are across the way blazing up a Camel. If they invade your space, by all means tell them to go away. But it's disrespectful to walk across the park and tell them they better stop smoking when they have every right to be there just as much as you.

Everyone can just keep the comments to themselves of course. That would be the easy thing that would never create problems or frictions between differing views. Yet, when it's an area where it's allowed to think that "I can express myself and what I feel.", it is probably not an exclusive to any one's person way of thinking. All people that is able to post probably think that.


I guess the real root is, and maybe in the next iteration of the forum it may be solved, how exactly do you keep some way of ideas flowing yet the same, to prevent precieved disrespect, and by who's standards should it follow?

Or better yet for those that felt disrespected by the OP, how should he have worded that he basically hated his experience here and dont care if the game ends and he feels nothing without it coming off as disrespect? Some might say that he should keep it to himself but isnt that the point of the forum? To be able to express yourself? Or did I miss the point and the point is to post only if you agree with "people with the most friends" or backers and what they say you are suppose to say and think?

Originally Posted by mauk2 Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words. "Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L!

All this does is prevent people having to see ideas with which they disagree.

You seem to want only the freedom to agree in a rational manner, not freedom of speech.

Without conflicting ideas, human society would crumble.

Yea I see what you are saying. On the other hand that same anger is driving some folks away. It really do come off as off putting at times, especially when prior to the announcement, a post like the OP probably would of been flatly ignored by most people. I still probably would of responded because I feel and have seen i game exactly what he is talking about anf of course it gave him a bad taste in the mouth. Maybe he saw this as last chance to get it off his chest.

Alot of people are getting things off their chest and unfortunately they are not all going to be peachy positive things. One of the reasons lately that I'm wishing more and more there was actual private forum channels, that way people, especially the emotionally fragile right now, can have an enclosed support without worrying about seeing comments like the OP, and the OP can still express himself here, a forum he also have an investment in, without offending the emotional.

Is there any place here that is appropriate to express yourself that may not be high in hope positive, peachy wonderland? I'm not saying that there is nothing wrong with that as that is what keeps the fight alive but when it gets to a point that a person cannot simply say, "Meh, I did not enjoy myself here much." without being attacked by someone that felt attacked by that statement, maybe something about that should be done or thought of to fix that in the next iteration that is being planned?

While on one hand he speaks of centralizing efforts then on the other hand he disrespects anyone that doesnt share the view. At least that is how he coming off to me. With seems to make his idea of centralizing efforts is thinking like he do, speaking like ,he do, and doing exactly what ever he thinks will save this game in the order that he thinks will save this game and anyone that dont agree to that exact format is against him and his people.
If he is really serious about the game and leader the effort I would think he wouldnt even have the time to come off of his TitanNetwork thing to bother with a poster that didnt share his view. Originally I was thinking "oh yeah, we have a chance now to have another iteration of COX where ideas can flow and stuff." Then after a while, I started to notice that more and more, the same players that love to censor anyone that didnt fit their view is over there on titan trying to save this game, many at the forefront. Then when TonyV made that post of his, I realize that it just wasnt a few of the "citizens" but the leader himself. I'm not willing to trade the COX way of open talk with the devs and other higher ups with a dictatorship that is just a minature WoW. That is "I, the one in charge, like this idea, and EVERYONE will like it too!" Unless you have WoW's bank, that way of thinking will sink a game in a matter of months. *trying so hard to avoid a hitler compare as he was too charismatic, people loved him, supported him, he rallied the people to rebuild Germany, and then we seen how that turned out." but it fits with TonyV's postings.

But like I said I hope he succeed and will even throw in everything I have to help the effort if need be, although not in TonyV's name or for his glory, but more so that him and his people have a place to go so that they wont be a danger to other games and they are happy with their own game.

Originally Posted by mauk2 Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words. "Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L!

Yeah, I want freedom of speech. But not sure how it would exactly work anyways over all especially in the direspect portion. With freedom to say what ever you want someone is bound to be disrespected, yet shouldnt people be protected from disrespect? But how can that be done without suppressing speech and disrespecting them? These are things I dont know. Was hoping someone eventually throw some ideas of how this, even in theory, could work.

And about those people that seek to suppress any idea that do not fit with theirs. But isnt suppressing those people that suppress other's ideas doing the exact thing?

Or should we all just learn to deal with it all? *mere questions in the head*

Originally Posted by mauk2 Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words. "Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L!

Dont think he said that he does not get why other peopel are ot upset. I think in his first line he says that he knows people are upset about the game closing and rightfully so. Not sure how you got that out of the OP.

Originally Posted by mauk2 Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words. "Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L!

You're right really. I was being overly scathing because his attitude annoys me. There wasn't a point in his post, other then to stir up ire and see if he could find anyone to support his viewpoint. The second one is normal and I can't fault him for it, but the first reasoning just aggrivates me. Pouring salt on the wound if you will.

ah.

Originally Posted by mauk2 Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words. "Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L!

Just a slight tangent here - but funerals are not really designed for the recently dearly-departed. So your desire that people be honest is really not the point (and you won't be there to see it anyway, even as a spirit watching your own funeral.)

Funerals are for the comfort of those still living - the widow, the children, the best friends, etc.

So standing in front of the room giving your "honest" opinion that the deceased was not a nice guy anyway, so don't be too upset that he's gone is realy just cruel to those who are mourning.

Some of them will get really ticked off - and will respond with anger and cries of "why are you being such a ******?"

I agree with Ad Astra. I think you kind of miss the point of funerals, and therefore possibly expressions of grief in general.

People don't go to funerals to gripe. They go to show respect for the deceased. Who are they showing respect to? Some of them believe they're showing it to the soul of the deceased, looking on from the afterlife. Most, though, (also) recognize that they're showing it to (a) the other attendees and (b) themselves.

People who didn't respect you at all generally would never show up at your funeral, because doing so is considered a show of respect. If someone does have enough respect to show up, they usually recognize that the other people there are there because they were close to the deceased, and are grieving that the person is gone. For that to be the case, the deceased had to have characteristics someone liked, and those are the characteristics the mourners will be missing, not the annoying ones.

So showing up at the funeral and going up to the podium and being harsh about the person's faults is likely going to upset those gathered, because even if they know about those things, they're not why they've come.

If someone was a truly flawed person, there are ways to acknowledge that when you speak of them to the bereaved without laying it bare. They'll all know what you mean. But out of respect to those who are hurting over the loss, it's not really kind to be all like "but yeah, I'm not going to miss them."

There's a thread about things people won't miss about CoH. I posted a moderately long list - I know CoH is hardly perfect. But I was never going to stop playing CoH over those flaws, and I'd be overjoyed to have the opportunity to have to deal with them after November 30. There's way more about this game that I enjoy than that I don't, or I wouldn't have played it for 8+ years.

Ultimately, the OP does feel like he's pissing in my Cheerios a bit, because for all that he expresses support for the idea that CoH's players are justified in trying to save it, he turns around near the end of his post and more or less says he doesn't really think CoH is all that. As someone smarting from the pending loss of my favorite hobby and on-line social activity, that's not something I feel like being reminded of. "Do unto others" has a popular corollary - people expect others to show them the same respect they would offer. I would not speak ill of the dead at their funeral out of respect for the mourners, and I would expect the same courtesy when I am mourning. While no one's died here, the same principle applies.

Having been to far too many funerals, it's pretty annoying to hear that people had endless wonderful traits that could only be found with an autopsy.

Which is precisely why I've long held the position that I will do unto others AS they do unto me or mine while being sure to enter every environment with kindness and respect as the default until given reason to change course.

I've been trying to stay away from the funeral metaphor. Besides, this isn't really a funeral yet -- it's more like a deathwatch.

I only approached the funeral metaphor because of all the discussion about how some of the posters here wanted folks "to be honest" at their own funerals, the good and the bad, but mostly the bad (by inference).

I also see it as a deathwatch. Someone here on the forums (I can't recall who ATM) when asked why they continue to play, even though the game is shutting down, compared it to watching a beloved pet dying - he wouldn't igmore the pet just because it's dying, he would spend as much time as he could with the pet for as long as he could.

hmm the feelings run that deep huh.

yea, I see what you are saying. I guess I dont get the anology between the game and a funeral though.

I mean unlike a funeral, like I said, access to the podium is controlled, people go to pay their respects. But in this case, the forum isnt the funeral. It was already an open floor to speak of the game and things. Although most people avoided the critical stuff due to the fact that the game is ending, and some people probably went the route of just another day, and some might be here to get their last rib shots in. I mean if the game was not going down the tube, and the OP said what he said, it would have been just another comment, and another thread. Now what has changed that it feeling like pissing someone cheerios? If it would of been ok, since, say aug 28th, what make it so inappropriate today? I mean even with a dying person, if you threaten to kill them and said that you wished they died, isnt it kind of odd to come back when they really get gravely ill and say "Oh I always respected you, and I hope you dont die." I mean which is smoke and whic is not. If the person wasnt dying, that person probably wouldnt bother to even offer so much an apology, but when they do all of a sudden they want to be nice? When they could of been the same level of nice all along? I just dont get it nor understand. BUt I think your explanation is a little bit more insight on how deep the emotional attachment of this game actually goes. Didnt realize it was on the level of a family member dying. I guess that is why many family's grieve for their deceased loved ones in a more private setting. This is like trying to hold a funeral where the deceased used to play cards and wondering why a few have nothing nice to say and or asking for the money they are owed. Lacking of a delicate touch, true, but this is the public forum and unfortunately everyone isnt going to have the sentiments.

Originally Posted by mauk2 Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words. "Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L!

lol.

Originally Posted by mauk2 Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words. "Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L!

Yea I think I would carry on as normal. WAIT BEFORE YOU JUMP OUT YOUR SEAT!!!.

And carrying on by normal I mean I would always love the pet through out the life as if it was it's last from the day I get it to the end. No one knows when the end will come so I treat everyday with my dog as if I'm going to hug it and then it will run out the door and get flattened by a semi. And that is how I do with people to and just about anything.

Originally Posted by mauk2 Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words. "Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L!

My condolences Bill, I also lost a pet to stupid pancreatic cancer, my big loving and lovable orange marmalade tomcat Calvin.



The mental picture I had when you posted about spending time with Bella stuck with me.

Chances are good there are some people there who need to hear it that way.

Quoting part of the original post because it's what set this thread off. This is just a typical "this game sucks" post. Posting that a game sucks on that game's forums is usually not going to be met with applause. The "noobs" and "snobs" dig is just the mark of someone looking for a fight.

True, but now I'm trying to focus it on puppy & kitteh pictures. Derailing trolls can be fun!

Words to live by.
Words that are also fun to live by!

And alas, I don't have time to upload any pictures of any of my cats from years past.