Shutting Down the Forums Prior to November 30th

...And then asking a question of those SAME people you dismiss as fanboys? If you don't want to listen to them, don't ask them questions. In this way I disagree with your premise.

Let me preface this by saying I don't feel any ill will towards the OP. I could be wrong but I don't presume malicious intent from his post. With that out of the way, his question that is clearly invalidated by a search for answers? Don't forget, the majority of the opening post was presuming we were organizing negative ad campaigns, and that this forum was our strongest outlet and without it any actions would likely fail.

That point of his post, however, was insisted to be that he wanted to know why NCsoft shouldn't shut the forums down early. If he isn't an NCsoft employee in charge of sunsetting these forums to silence grass roots fan action, then it isn't his concern why fans think NCsoft should or shouldn't shut down the forums (after all, the answer of those that play the game has no relevance to its happening, as they don't decide its fate, someone else does).

If, however, he IS ACTUALLY an NCsoft employee in charge of shutting down the forums to silence grass roots fan action, then it isn't his concern why fans think NCsoft should or shouldn't shut down the forums (after all, the answer of those that play the game has no relevance to its happening, as they don't decide its fate, he does).

It's a statement that will likely only serve to enflame the people its addressed to (intentionally or not), with a hostile atmosphere that deserves to be addressed. It is much like responding to a call for the poster to read the forums and understand the state of the grass roots movement, by dismissing that information as fanboys speculating wildly.

Speaking of such - was the statement in specific? That we don't know the exact time of forum shutdown so it's irrelevant what people are saying? If so that wasn't the point of the statement SatanicHamster was responding to as I read it. It was to say the OP's implied 'what if' question was about something that was already set to happen. Was the statement about fanboys more general, that reading the comments of those who frequent the forums, described as fanboys, was irrelevant? If so then he shouldn't have asked questions of those people anyway and then dismissing criticisms - that he could have found answers to his questions - is not helpful.

If that's true, he was a fool for simply asking the question in the first place - in which case that sarcastic statement is entirely misdirected.

As to the assertions:
"the advertisements of competitive games and the general negativity" - Negativity in these efforts general has been low to my estimation, people have been saying keep hope alive, keep up the work. In the letter drive people are specifically entreated to keep negativity out. As for advertising competitive games, if that is an advertising concern then don't forget, you are SENDING these people away from your company. I don't think making sure they have to find their next game to play elsewhere - stifling that outlet - is really in anyone's PR interest. There may be individual hostility, but that's not really a part of the move to save the game, that's people upset that their little place is being destroyed and venting - hardly a threat to the company.

"If they were shut down NOW, any organized attempts at generating a negative ad campaign or boycott would be severely hampered" - as pointed out much of the grass roots work is already off the forums, so this his only other assertion is also incorrect. Moreover, the grass roots work is not about negative ad campaigns or organized boycotts.

As for me, I read the OP's post as a 'better not bite the hand that feeds you...' statement that ended in a rhetorical question. Backlash happened and the OP then tried to insist the rhetorical question was actually the point, even though no one could answer it. I think he may have been trying to get people to 'just stop complaining', fearing that it would bring an early fall to forum access - which is hardly an evil goal.

In this way I don't see him as a troll, more likely someone with a concern that voiced it poorly. With that said, active consumerism is something I'm a fan of, so I'm very glad - regardless of his original thinking - to see him working making his voice known more actively.

__________________
Currently listening to Our Lady Peace's Spiritual Machines

I'm not really expecting that. Not to be overly negative, but the only thing we are even sort of promised at this point is servers being up until November 30th. It IS entirely possible, and I certainly hope they do, but at this point, even Zwill is gone. I give it another month.

Why would you respond if you didn't bother reading it? Either you are very intently and actively ignoring me and you want everyone to know you are definitely ignoring me and people should recognize that or... perhaps it means Totally Legitimate ; Detailed Response?

Speaking of finding out new things, I didn't know Zwillinger was already gone. That's a bummer, and every day that passes there's another day of job searching for there to be less of the Paragon team to pick back up if the game is saved.

Because he's the best there is at what he does, but what he does isn't very nice.

He's having fun at your expense. He'll keep replying as long as you amuse him. SatHam's pretty hard to counter-troll, so unless you are honestly enjoying the back-and-forth, it's probably in your best interests to drop it.

Oh, and that giant wall o' text you posted?





tl;dr

Perhaps, but then it is quite reasonable to conclude from your summation that yes, he was actively ignoring me because he wants attention for how much he isn't paying attention to me.

I am intrigued though that, with you not even a factor in the conversation, you invite yourself into the same boat, making sure everyone knows you didn't read a post that for your part wasn't directed at you. Which means by your own explanation, you are not nice, and by implication you are a troll, which may or may not be true of him but would definitely be true of you since it's how you feel about such behavior.

And yet you do it, riding someone else's assumed coat tails into an endeavor you yourself demean. What a fascinating sense of self.

I'm *fairly* sure that Zwill said it on the last stream he did a couple weeks ago.

You posted on a public forum. You aren't allowed to dictate who is or isn't allowed to read, comment on or respond to your posts. If you DO want such control, then replies you want to remain private should be relegated to the provided Private Messaging system.

As to whether or not I am nice? I never claimed to be. However, I didn't taKe it on myself to write a huge scathing rebuttal to someone who posted something I felt the need to correct. I didn't post said rebuttal in a public forum, and then complain about people's response to it.

And just to make you feel better, I went back and read your diatribe.

I still have no idea what you're talking about. It seems to be some weird rambling mish-mash of your assumptions of what the OP said, some weird conspiracy theory about NCSoft polling us in secret, and a lot of stuff that I couldn't make heads or tails of.

By the way, what question DID Satanic Hamster ask after calling... someone ... fanboys? The fanboys comment was the last thing he posted before your rant. Even if it was just an error in tense and you were referring to something else... What? I don't see any questions from him. Stating a need doesn't mean that that need must be fulfilled by anyone in this thread.

I want tacos for dinner.

Does that mean that I expect someone in this thread to provide them for me?

Edit: scooped and one-upped in a single pony... er... post.

You don't even need to ask!

But you are most welcome to continue doing so.

I do not want such control. Also, I never claimed to want such control. My actions were simply responses to statements put forth to me. I think you may be confused.

I'm sorry you feel you aren't nice, I hope you take steps to correct the actions which cause you this esteem issue. As to you not posting a rebuttal, it may not have been huge but you did, by your own words and admission you did, remember? it was at the bottom of your last post, tl:dr. Remember, you said it was a response to me to troll me. Moreover, I had no complaint about him responding, I was simply pointing out the possibilities surrounding it. You seem confused.


How fascinating, you went back and by your words you couldn't understand it. No idea what I was talking about. Yet with that lack of understanding you feel armed to say that it is full of assumptions, and a conspiracy theory about NCSoft polling you in secret. How do you reconcile your professed lack of understanding with your then professed understanding of the post?

Regardless, you seem confused. If you'd like me to explain things to you, just point out what confused you and in what way it has done so, I will do my best to help!

tl:dr is not a need.

The question you may be referring to is the question the OP asked. Not all of my statement referred to SatanicHamster.

I would hope it doesn't, but I cannot say that with certainty that you do not expect taco's through the forum. One thing I can say is that any reasoned person that is making a statement in public is doing so for that statement to be heard. In this case, I am hoping you mentioned wanting taco's to make a point about about not getting needs out of forums. A point that - I would add - seems to entirely miss the statement I was making.

I never said I wasn't nice. You sure do make a lot of assumptions about people.

I said no such thing. Prior to this very sentence, none of my posts in this thread contain the word "troll", except in quotes of other posters.

Reading comprehension failure.

I never made any definitive statements about the contents of your post. I stated what I thought "It seems to be". Many things are other than what they seem to be.
Also, claiming that I think I understand part of your post, but can't make heads nor tails of the rest is in no way a contradiction.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
I'd post the picture to go along with it, but I'm posting from my phone, and doing so would be a HUGE hassle that would involve, at the very least, retyping everything in this post so far. Yes, my phone sucks. C'est la vie.

A cursony scanning of the thread will quickly reveal a post by Satanic Hamster that starts with "I need...". Which other post of his could you possibly have been thinking I referred to?

So this:

was directed at the OP, and not Satanic Hamster?

If so, you seem confused. If not, then I ask again, what question did Satanic Hamster ask?

Wanting to be heard is not necessarily the same as wanting the listener to act on the expressed needs or desires.

I never said anything about wanting taco is. You seem confused.

My point was that, just because Satanic Hamster stated that he needed something, does not necessarily mean that he expects that need to be fulfilled by the people reading it. It merely means that he was stating a need, and wanted it to be known. Likewise, I stated my desire for tacos because I want people to know that I want tacos, not because I expect them to rush over to my house and prepare them for me. That would be ridiculous.

Someone missed the point, but it wasn't me. You seem confused.

Totally. If the forums are going to devolve into this kind of utterly pathetic, childish bickering, then maybe they SHOULD be closed down sooner rather than later?

I'd rather remember them as a fun place than what some people are trying to turn them in to.

I take umbrage to that statement! Boys are just as capable of being petty and quarrelsome as.... Hey, wait a minute!

And THAT, ladies and gentlemen, is community in action. You simply cannot BUY that level of unity and support - no matter how hard a corporation may try. It's a lesson NCSoft (and indeed all of today's large games corporations) would do well to consider when they try the "never mind what's in that hand, look what I've got in this one!" trick.

It's the little things, the seemingly taken for granted things, that can have the biggest impact. Remember the old "For want of a nail" proverb?
Well here's my updated version of it...

For want of a share price, CoH was lost.
For want of CoH the community was lost.
For want of a community the foreign market was lost.
For want of a foreign market the new MMO was lost.
For want of a new MMO the investment was lost.
For want of investment the corporation was lost.
And all for the want of a shareholder price.

I never said you weren't nice either. I made a statement about how you feel based on exactly what you said. He said posting tl:dr was because he is not very nice, and he's having fun at my expense. Then you engaged in the exact same behavior.

It was fascinating but true. You behaved in a way that you yourself said was not nice (responding to a post that you didn't bother reading), and you then defended your behavior when I pointed that out by claiming that you never said you were nice. My premise seems sound and you did not offer any rebuttal to my knowledge. It's clear that you feel you are actively engaging in not nice behavior.

Can you find the word troll there? Rather than waiting for a response it's best to simply say that counter-trolling is something one does to a troll, which is what you seemed to be assuming that poor Satanic Hamster was.


I agree, but I'll explain it all for you.

I never made any definitive statements about the contents of your rebuttal, either. I simply said you felt armed to made accusations when you yourself stated that you could not understand the post.

Yes it is.

http://www.idiomeanings.com/idioms/c...r-tails-of-it/

Not understanding some of it may cause you to make assumptions about the parts you erroneously thought you understood. For instance, either not noticing the quote in the first post Satanic_Hamster wrote or not thinking it was relevant to my statement to him seems to have clouded your understanding.

I'm sorry you feel your phone sucks. All said though, you can post from your phone, call me a technophile but that still gets cool points.


I was under the presumption that you would know I was talking about any of the three posts in which I was a party. I made myself a party to his 'fanboys' post, I slogged through the content of his next post, to ultimately digest the full works of his third post.

I can only assume you mean his statement about needing to know when the forums would shut down, which I just looked back at. It is not a part of anything I was referring to.


You remain confused. He was quoting someone, Captain-Electric, as evidenced by his post and the quote up top of it.

American_Knight asked why NCsoft shouldn't shut down the forums early if people continue to complain.

Captain-Electric pointed out the question is moot, if he looked it up before he'd know they already are shutting down the forums early.

Satanic_Hamster sarcastically dismissed such information as fanboys speculating wilding.

I pointed out that if looking up old post info is pointless, than asking the question would be pointless too so that's a bad reason to try to dismiss someone.

Afterward there was nary a taco to be found on the thread. Not yet, mind you.

That is correct! Very good. Also, tl:dr is not a desire. It is a statement that Satanic_Hamster clearly wanted to be heard (in the colloquial sense that he wanted it read and understood in a public medium).

Good sir, I never said anything about wanting taco is either!

The uncommon usage is not necessarily incorrect usage.



Ain't was, for a time, not a word at all. Some people say the language is getting muddied, others say that language is intended to express thought, and should expand to do that thing first and foremost with the only concern for correctness being a minimum of cross-interpretation that might hamper understanding.

I am willing to believe however that you truly did not understand what I said when you saw the apostrophe after the o in taco's.

In the statement right above this one, you thought I meant "taco is" when referring to taco's, when all context clues pointed to the conversation you began regarding the tasty treat. Taco is doesn't even make sense in that context, I will grant you being unable to divine from context clues what I meant but that might only proves to show...all evidence leads to you missing the point in many things. Unless it was sarcasm, and then I invite we swing back around to the point of my statement:

People write things they would like read.

Oh huff puff! This place is still awesome, and shall remain so to the last soul for each their individual part as far as I am concerned. If you are to remember this place - should this community go - remember it kindly for the most POINTLESS of pointlessness, because even if sometimes we do devolve into petty snark...I invite that our flavor of it remains classier than most.

That about sums it up.
<Burns>Excellent.</Burns>

That's right, you ****7!

Although pluralizing with an apostrophe really is incorrect and unnecessarily ambiguous.

Your burns rings through the forum, my friend!

And to Jack_Nomind: except when dealing with possessives it can be quite incorrect, and even though "taco's" has taken a common turn I must admit I only write it that way because someone I confer with now and again does.

Which makes me wonder how often we talk about them. Hmm, well a taco is a grand thing, so all's well that ends well. However as to ambiguous, I don't often run into situations where I was thinking someone meant the contraction form when in fact they meant plural, or vice versa!

+1 I was just going to type this very thing. Shutting these forums down would be a mercy killing at this point.

Or he just wanted to tell you the post was too damn long. Once you post something in an online forum, everyone and their dog has the option of commenting.

*blinks* *stutters*

I-I-I am actually agreeing with FFM here

*blinks*

Ok, that is it, the end of world is upon us. Lay your weapons and and throw yourselves to the floor. This is it.

Armageddon, the apocalypse, gehenna!

Oh woe is I, oh woe is I!


*slap slap slap*

"we shall now return you to your regularly scheduled forum bickering in 3 minutes".

Perhaps that's the NCSoft conspiracy that Roderick was referring to!

And when you respond, people have the option of responding back, that's what happened here. The curiosity wasn't that he commented, I welcome the comments! It was why he behaved in a way that, in the very same post, he derided.

Meh, it's probably just a sarcophagus with a bomb in it.