Amusing GW2 review - light profanity
I bought GW2. Yes, I distrust NCSoft but I really liked GW1, so I thought Arenanet deserved for me to try their new game.
I'm now sorry that I bought it. GW2 has almost nothing in common, mechanically, with GW1. I don't mind that in theory, but GW2 is not casual friendly and that I can't live with.
Going up levels is taking me a long time, and there are 80 levels rather than the quick 20 from GW1. I'm hitting walls with all my characters where I'm only level 8 but the next storyline or area is level 11+, so I can't progress. There are no NPC heroes to adventure with you, and all the quests take part in the shared MMO world instead of an instance, therefore you get griefing. (They've made most griefing impossible but where it can occur it still does.) Worst of all, quick arcade reflexes are a core component of combat; if you hate blocking in CO, you'll despise the absolutely necessary evade mechanic in GW2.
Everything is an extreme money sink. The crafting system is fakakta and useless. Fast travel costs money. Every ten levels there's a huge expenditure just to get access to traits. Equipment degrades and needs repair. Yet the rewards and drops are a pittance. Everyone's a pauper in this game; there are too many mandatory sinks to ever get above water.
Class balance is bad, although I trust that will be fixed. Role balance is non-existent; there are no roles. They advertise this as if it's a good thing, but it's not. When a game says there are no tanks, healers, or damage dealers, what they mean is that no class can do any of them adequately. Healing sucks, there is no aggro control so tanking is impossible, so damage is all you can do. From what I hear in the forums every high-level combat involves either kiting or zerging back from death; there are no other viable strategies.
And all that only considers the PvE game. Much of the game's focus is on PvP, which I will never play.
If GW2 is successful, it will be due to hardcore players who like PvP. (In other words, Korean-style players.) I predict that casual players will abandon this game in droves after they realize what a chore it can be. I don't know how they took GW1's extremely casual play and turned it into this punishment-fest.
Now, GW2 is polished and user-friendly and 'ergonomic', and many of those gameplay improvements originated in CoH. But simplifying tedious tasks does not make a game casual-friendly. It just makes life better for your hardcore players. The casual appeal of a game rests solely on the *gameplay*. Leveling should be easy, equipment should be plentiful and optional, and there should be rewarding strategies that are simple to learn.
I don't think I'll be playing GW2 for long, unless I get desperate for social contact. Maybe I should turn off the computer and go to town once in a while. I hear there are people there.
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New Webcomic -- Genocide Man
Life is funny. Death is funnier. Mass slaughter can be hilarious.
Wow, your experience is so the opposite of mine I'm sorry you're having such a hard time of it On of my characters hit 52 last night and I haven't even been "trying" to level - I've been juggling playtime between six character, all of whom are over 20 except one (we just rolled them and need to RP them out into the world before we can "play" them properly.) Not to mention, spending a lot of time RPing.
I really don't think PvP is "central" to the game, but I'm glad it's well-built and I've enjoyed trying it. I'm looking forward to trying out the dungeons, which are much more about thinking and skill than just tank-and-spanks since there's no roles and no taunt mechanic (which I personally love - I kite-tank a lot of things on my elementalist!)
There's no heroes to adventure with you because other people sort of fill that role. I'm not sure how other folks are griefing you? Since everything's shared?
The crafting system is not useless. It's great for making gear. It's not great for *selling* gear, but I've been wearing crafted gear all the way up and I very rarely find drops that are better.
Class balance is not bad. How many classes did you play?
GW2 is EXTREMELY casual-friendly. You can log on for an hour, do a mission/heart, run around some, and log out and still feel like you got things done. Much like COH. Leveling is way quicker and easier than COH since there's no ramp. Equipment IS plentiful - heart vendor karma gear is a good substitute for crafted gear, and green drops are also plentiful. If you want, you can literally equip yourself with a full set of green gear every 5 levels from the AH for supercheap.
There's not an extreme layout every 10 levels for traits. You buy your first trait book at level 10 (for 10 silver) and your second at level 40 (for 1g) and then your last at either 60 or 80.
Money is easy to make if you sell your drops to vendors. It's even easier if you take all those crafting mats you're not using and put them on the AH. They sell like crazy.
I'm really sorry about your experience though, I know the game isn't all things for all people. If there's anything I can help with, I'd be glad to do that though if you decide to give it another go.
I have to agree with Feycat its a 180 ° from my experience, I am at lvl 30 just exploring all the 1-17 (Starting zones)areas and doing hearts(quest) and have not finished the human area yet.
You dont have to be that quick on reflexes but learning how your opponents move is important. Feycat explain's it better then I could anyway, but sorry you are not having fun.
Edit: also what do you consider griefing?
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Wow, your experience is so the opposite of mine I'm sorry you're having such a hard time of it
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There's no heroes to adventure with you because other people sort of fill that role. I'm not sure how other folks are griefing you? Since everything's shared? |
Griefing is rare in GW2 only because it's difficult, but I've seen it happen where ever it's possible. People run up and kill the enemies you've been beating on. (That doesn't lose you any xp, which is good, but sometimes I'm just fighting to test a weapon loadout.) In heart quests where you're supposed to capture an animal alive, people will run up and kill the animal to screw with you.
Then there are the skill tests, some of which trigger the appearance of an aggressive boss-level enemy you're supposed to kill. Griefers wait until a lower level player walks by then they trigger the boss ambush, who lays waste to everyone around him while the griefer escapes. I'm surprised Arenanet overlooked these; I'm hopeful they'll be fixed to aggro only on the triggering player.
The crafting system is not useless. It's great for making gear. It's not great for *selling* gear, but I've been wearing crafted gear all the way up and I very rarely find drops that are better. |
To make an earring -- the easiest jewelry to create in the game -- requires a gemstone and 8 copper ores. Every ore sells for 2cp, but you have to buy a tool to dig them out so that it costs you about 1cp just to dig out each ore. So you're putting in about 24cp (and about 80 pounds!) of copper plus a gemstone, to make a single earring that will sell for around 10cp.
I don't blame the Tyrians for valuing earrings at 1/3rd their material costs -- who would want to buy or wear an 80 pound earring anyway? Other craft skills are worse. Cooking is insane. The game is just plain stingy.
Class balance is not bad. How many classes did you play? |
(The Necro is another rant. I love pet classes. I loved, LOVED my GW1 necromancer. But I check out the guides for GW2 and they all say pet AI is so terrible that minion strategies are unplayable. Necros are all using condition builds. I wept, then decided not to play a pet class.)
GW2 is EXTREMELY casual-friendly. You can log on for an hour, do a mission/heart, run around some, and log out and still feel like you got things done. Much like COH. Leveling is way quicker and easier than COH since there's no ramp. Equipment IS plentiful - heart vendor karma gear is a good substitute for crafted gear, and green drops are also plentiful. If you want, you can literally equip yourself with a full set of green gear every 5 levels from the AH for supercheap. |
I'm okay with low-level equipment, but my characters are either underleveled or dirt poor. My mesmer is level 8, unable to do his next storyline quest at level 11, and he's completed all the hearts in his area. My engineer got to level 11 by crafting bags and armor for all my other characters; although he got xp from crafting, because of the money he lost he cannot afford his level 11 traits. Let's not talk about my poor guardian, who I chose to explore cooking.
There's not an extreme layout every 10 levels for traits. You buy your first trait book at level 10 (for 10 silver) and your second at level 40 (for 1g) and then your last at either 60 or 80. Money is easy to make if you sell your drops to vendors. It's even easier if you take all those crafting mats you're not using and put them on the AH. They sell like crazy. |
Don't get me wrong, it's not a bad game as these games go. It's just not very good for casual players.
Casual players *want* games with clear roles, so they can jump in and have fun. Every character I have in GW2 must be able to tank, heal, *and* deal damage, and I'm sick of figuring out how to do those best, or even if it's possible to do them well enough to matter. The forums agree that the best strategies available are kiting and zerging. That's a sign that the game design has failed; kiting is exploiting AI, while zerging is exploiting a death recovery system.
I also don't want to pinch every penny in order to buy things that are basic and necessary. And casual players want a game with smooth leveling all the way through -- you say GW2 has no ramp, but most of my characters have hit a hard wall at level 8.
I've played about 40 hours so far, spread between 5 characters. That might not seem like a lot to you, but it's a lot for me. In that amount of time I could easily have all those characters over level 20 in CoH, and probably close to 20 (max level) in GW1.
It's a fine game, it's just not meant for casual players and so probably not for me. (In contrast, CO *is* meant for casual players but is not for me because it's not a good game. )
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New Webcomic -- Genocide Man
Life is funny. Death is funnier. Mass slaughter can be hilarious.
I'm not having a hard time of it, I'm just not having a fun time of it. I can go out and farm Moas if I really want to level, but I don't want to do that.
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Psychotic misanthrope here; I seldom team. I'll join PUGs for task forces in CoH, and I'll work with people for events in GW2, but I'm not a team kinda guy.
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Griefing is rare in GW2 only because it's difficult, but I've seen it happen where ever it's possible. People run up and kill the enemies you've been beating on. (That doesn't lose you any xp, which is good, but sometimes I'm just fighting to test a weapon loadout.) In heart quests where you're supposed to capture an animal alive, people will run up and kill the animal to screw with you.
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Then there are the skill tests, some of which trigger the appearance of an aggressive boss-level enemy you're supposed to kill. Griefers wait until a lower level player walks by then they trigger the boss ambush, who lays waste to everyone around him while the griefer escapes. I'm surprised Arenanet overlooked these; I'm hopeful they'll be fixed to aggro only on the triggering player.
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You're right, the gear you craft is good to use. The problem is that it's useless to sell and a ridiculous money sink that ruins immersion.
To make an earring -- the easiest jewelry to create in the game -- requires a gemstone and 8 copper ores. Every ore sells for 2cp, but you have to buy a tool to dig them out so that it costs you about 1cp just to dig out each ore. So you're putting in about 24cp (and about 80 pounds!) of copper plus a gemstone, to make a single earring that will sell for around 10cp. I don't blame the Tyrians for valuing earrings at 1/3rd their material costs -- who would want to buy or wear an 80 pound earring anyway? Other craft skills are worse. Cooking is insane. The game is just plain stingy. |
I have an Elementalist, Guardian, Engineer, Mesmer, and Thief, all from 8-11th level. I'm getting most of my information about class balance from the forums; it's universally acknowledged that in PvE, Warriors rule, Eles and Necros drool, the rest fall in between. There's a different unbalanced ranking in PvP.
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(The Necro is another rant. I love pet classes. I loved, LOVED my GW1 necromancer. But I check out the guides for GW2 and they all say pet AI is so terrible that minion strategies are unplayable. Necros are all using condition builds. I wept, then decided not to play a pet class.)
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And seriously, if you're not interested in PvP? Why would you care if other classes might do something a little faster or "better" than what you're playing? It's like COH - play what you enjoy, and enjoy what you play. Every single class can contribute, solo, and in groups. Promise!
I can't access the AH; it's a blank screen every time I try. They've had a lot of downtime.
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I'm okay with low-level equipment, but my characters are either underleveled or dirt poor. My mesmer is level 8, unable to do his next storyline quest at level 11, and he's completed all the hearts in his area. My engineer got to level 11 by crafting bags and armor for all my other characters; although he got xp from crafting, because of the money he lost he cannot afford his level 11 traits. Let's not talk about my poor guardian, who I chose to explore cooking.
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Sell your junk drops, and all the greens and blues you're not planning on using. Salvage all whites with a basic kit. Sell all your crafting drops on the AH. You will have a LOT of money with very little effort, easily enough to buy what you need for leveling.
Don't get me wrong, it's not a bad game as these games go. It's just not very good for casual players.
Casual players *want* games with clear roles, so they can jump in and have fun. Every character I have in GW2 must be able to tank, heal, *and* deal damage, and I'm sick of figuring out how to do those best, or even if it's possible to do them well enough to matter. The forums agree that the best strategies available are kiting and zerging. That's a sign that the game design has failed; kiting is exploiting AI, while zerging is exploiting a death recovery system. |
Kiting is NOT exploiting the AI. It's the intended method of play. Just because it's different doesn't make it bad. Personally, I find combat in COH extremely boring and un-dynamic, lacking real OOMF, since playing GW2. Standing still and firing off skills as they come off cooldown while you wallow in long-term buffs is pretty static. Constant movement, watching the enemy's animations, and choosing which short-term buff or heal to use when, to me, is a much more exciting and dynamic system. Not everyone will like it, but it's a good system.
I also don't want to pinch every penny in order to buy things that are basic and necessary. And casual players want a game with smooth leveling all the way through -- you say GW2 has no ramp, but most of my characters have hit a hard wall at level 8.
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And they chose to make money hard to get for extras, but for basics, it's really not hard. Crafting is an extra - and luckily, the Trading Post makes it so you don't need to craft if you don't enjoy it. Personally, I'm kinda loving a game without the insane $$ bloat that both COH and WoW suffer from.
I've played about 40 hours so far, spread between 5 characters. That might not seem like a lot to you, but it's a lot for me. In that amount of time I could easily have all those characters over level 20 in CoH, and probably close to 20 (max level) in GW1.
It's a fine game, it's just not meant for casual players and so probably not for me. (In contrast, CO *is* meant for casual players but is not for me because it's not a good game. ) |
Kiting is NOT exploiting the AI. It's the intended method of play. Just because it's different doesn't make it bad. Personally, I find combat in COH extremely boring and un-dynamic, lacking real OOMF, since playing GW2. Standing still and firing off skills as they come off cooldown while you wallow in long-term buffs is pretty static. Constant movement, watching the enemy's animations, and choosing which short-term buff or heal to use when, to me, is a much more exciting and dynamic system.
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I play a thief in GW2 and I Love the consent movement in and out of range, fighting with dual daggers or sword/dagger up close and flipping away while I switch to my dual pistols/bow/dagger, it is the most fun I have had in a MMO since I first tried CoH.
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And seriously, if you're not interested in PvP? Why would you care if other classes might do something a little faster or "better" than what you're playing? It's like COH - play what you enjoy, and enjoy what you play. Every single class can contribute, solo, and in groups. Promise!
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The AH has been working for a solid week now. They had a lot of downtime in the first week of the game. |
If you're poor, don't craft. |
Kiting is NOT exploiting the AI. It's the intended method of play. |
Personally, I find combat in COH extremely boring and un-dynamic, lacking real OOMF, since playing GW2. Standing still and firing off skills as they come off cooldown while you wallow in long-term buffs is pretty static. Constant movement, watching the enemy's animations, and choosing which short-term buff or heal to use when, to me, is a much more exciting and dynamic system. Not everyone will like it, but it's a good system. |
It's true though. There's a very slight xp ramp until 30, and then it stops. It's about 1 hour of play per level, all the way up. I suspect that you're not doing all the events and explorations in a zone, because there's really no slowing down or stopping unless you choose to stop. |
At a minimum, I'd expect the storyline quests to provide a smooth leveling path for those who just want to see the story. GW1 did it that way. But no. I'm forced to do heart tasks, craft, and now maybe farm also.
And they chose to make money hard to get for extras, but for basics, it's really not hard. |
I'll be playing GW2 at least until next week, when Borderlands 2 comes out and reignites my single-player FPS obsessions. It's what I'm going to play after I tire of BL2 that worries me. I always used to come back to CoH; this time I won't be able to.
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New Webcomic -- Genocide Man
Life is funny. Death is funnier. Mass slaughter can be hilarious.
I play a thief in GW2 and I Love the consent movement in and out of range, fighting with dual daggers or sword/dagger up close and flipping away while I switch to my dual pistols/bow/dagger, it is the most fun I have had in a MMO since I first tried CoH.
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Maybe the problem is age? I'm 44 years old, and my reflexes and eyesight aren't what they used to be. I can't make split-second twitches in response to small/faint/quick animation cues anymore. I understand how to dodge in GW2, I just don't have the reflexes to do it competently. If there was a class where dodging was not required that would be okay, but there isn't -- everyone has to have hyped-up twitch reflexes. That's fine for the young and hardcore, but the old and casual players are being driven away.
...
New Webcomic -- Genocide Man
Life is funny. Death is funnier. Mass slaughter can be hilarious.
I have the same issue but in a different game, DC Universe Online. I'm just not a twitch gamer anymore. In fact the devs were nice enough to give some of the enemies and bosses in DCUO some better AI, meaning they now more actively block and interrupt your attacks, thanks devs.
Don't mess with Texas!
--moo
Originally Posted by RemusShepherd
I'll be playing GW2 at least until next week, when Borderlands 2 comes out and reignites my single-player FPS obsessions. It's what I'm going to play after I tire of BL2 that worries me. I always used to come back to CoH; this time I won't be able to.
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Originally Posted by RemusShepherd
I'm 44 years old, and my reflexes and eyesight aren't what they used to be
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New Webcomic -- Genocide Man
Life is funny. Death is funnier. Mass slaughter can be hilarious.
My twitch skills were awful when I was young, let alone now. I lasted about 45 seconds when I tried to play Doom.
Suggestions:
Super Packs Done Right
Influence Sink: IO Level Mod/Recrafting
Random Merit Rolls: Scale cost by Toon Level
I suck at twitch. I have none. I'm always the girl getting headshot and crouching my way across the battlefield opening maps and handing out rations...
/Dara O'Briain
One thing I got to say that I picked up over this thread: adding a number to the end of globals is ridiculous!
If you going to do that may as well just force unique globals.
My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom
Going up levels is taking me a long time, and there are 80 levels rather than the quick 20 from GW1. I'm hitting walls with all my characters where I'm only level 8 but the next storyline or area is level 11+, so I can't progress. There are no NPC heroes to adventure with you, and all the quests take part in the shared MMO world instead of an instance, therefore you get griefing. (They've made most griefing impossible but where it can occur it still does.) Worst of all, quick arcade reflexes are a core component of combat; if you hate blocking in CO, you'll despise the absolutely necessary evade mechanic in GW2.
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Also, I have never purchased or crafted any bags in GW2 - I've gotten everything automatically and have never even filled half my inventory space yet. No 'inventory tetris' so far, thanks to the brilliant collectible deposit ability from anywhere.
My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom
Ah, here is where knowledge comes in. Your personal storyline is intentionally given level gaps so you can explore and do other missions. The missions in the game are the hearts on the map. I have never seen any 'griefing' in the game yet as there is no such thing as kill-stealing - you don't split xp/drops at all - everyone gets everything so everyone is encouraged to help everyone else. I actually haven't used the dodge mechanics yet, believe it or not. Maybe it's my class but I haven't had any need to dodge so far. Granted, I am only level 20ish so maybe it becomes more necessary.
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Speaking for myself, I consistently find myself so wrapped up in exploring zones, completing open world missions, and unlocking waypoints and ressurection points to earn the special exploration rewards that when I finally get around to doing my personal storyline I'm never less than 10+ levels higher than the mission itself.
And I've never had to "farm" moas or anything else to level up. If you "have" to resort to farming to level up your playing the game wrong.
I actually haven't used the dodge mechanics yet, believe it or not. Maybe it's my class but I haven't had any need to dodge so far. Granted, I am only level 20ish so maybe it becomes more necessary.
Also, I have never purchased or crafted any bags in GW2 - I've gotten everything automatically and have never even filled half my inventory space yet. No 'inventory tetris' so far, thanks to the brilliant collectible deposit ability from anywhere. |
To me it sounds like Remus is ignoring all the other content except the personal storyline.
Speaking for myself, I consistently find myself so wrapped up in exploring zones, completing open world missions, and unlocking waypoints and ressurection points to earn the special exploration rewards that when I finally get around to doing my personal storyline I'm never less than 10+ levels higher than the mission itself. And I've never had to "farm" moas or anything else to level up. If you "have" to resort to farming to level up your playing the game wrong. |
Actually, the way Haunt and I have been handling it is to follow the personal storyline until it's red and 2-5 levels above us (when we hit a combat episode we can't handle and lol ourselves outta there for a bit) and then go world questing until we're a level or 2 above the storyline, then go for it again. It's actually been really successful for us, we're getting gobs of xp, good drops, and still not "missing out" on any zone.
That's something I REALLY love about GW2 that always bummed me out in other games. I really WANTED to go from Praetoria straight to Faultline. But I couldn't. Because you can't start the Faultline arc at 20, you're too high. You have to go through Oro to do it, which for me broke the "immersion." I love, love, love not having to worry about hitting up an instance, TF, other zone, what-have-you making me "miss out" on story or zone stuff.
My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom
To me it sounds like Remus is ignoring all the other content except the personal storyline.
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But tonight I did get my characters up to level 10 and made some progress. Some of them still have hard walls, where the only missions or hearts I can find are 14+. I scraped together enough silvers to get two characters their trait kits. Died a lot in a few events where everyone was zerging.
The trading house was open early in the evening -- it crashed sometime around 8 EST and didn't come back. I sold some stuff but the prices aren't a big improvement over vendors.
Like I said it's a fine game, but it has flaws. Leveling's too slow, content is unevenly distributed, money is way too hard to come by, and combat is twitchy and unfun. All in my opinion, of course.
...
New Webcomic -- Genocide Man
Life is funny. Death is funnier. Mass slaughter can be hilarious.
To be clear, I have no direct experience with GW2,
All crafting materials that drop not only go into the collectibles tab, but are all clearly labeled on mouseover as to what craft they're used for and what skill level. All of them are used for multiple craftings.
Whenever I hit a vendor, they have a "sell all junk" button, so all grey items immediately give me their money without me having to look at them. Then I sell all the magic blue/green drops I've gotten and don't want to use (global AH means that there's 8 million green axes on it, so selling it's a waste of time since people are selling at a loss, too dumb to understand the AH cut :P) then salvage (take apart) all the white drops and salvage mats that are in my bag. I hit "deposit all collectibles" and go on my merry way with pretty much empty bags. Takes about a minute and with 8 slot bags in all my bagslots, my inventory almost never fills up between vendors.
It's actually pretty great.