The Best Time of My Life


Aggelakis

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Pebble View Post
The in-game economy was a monster. That's more of a question for the dev team, but from my recollection, it was a pretty herculean task to try and fix the inflation. It couldn't be done in one shot. Several attempts were made, which is one of the reasons why there was a high INF cost to various Incarnate unlocks. But it would have required much more extensive analysis and work to implement permanent, meaningful changes.

We did know who the richest players were. There was some research done into market behavior, but the tools to allow for the really cool analysis were built into issue 24.

And no index that we kept track of on a regular basis.
I would love to know who they were.

I'd love to know, at least if not, how much they had.

I suspected I was one of the richest at one point before marketeering became a big deal (because I had quite a few billions before anyone was really talking about having that much), but I'm curious if there was some quiet marketeer who may have had even more than the whales we know about...


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Pebble View Post
... the tools to allow for the really cool analysis were built into issue 24.

Damn you, I24!!!!!


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Originally Posted by Dispari View Post
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.

 

Posted

I've never cared for the big $$ sinks to solve video game inflation, because, as Arcanaville pointed out, they rarely impact the big fish and can really impede the small fish.
(Perhaps this is all 'no-duh' territory, but I've never really discussed the topic much)
The problem I have with doing the above is the nature of in-game moneys:

First of all, because games are inherently for fun and the further impeding of people who play less often, who don't chase after in-game money as much as others... impedes their fun (when encountering sizable money sinks). Which, eventually impedes all players' fun (everybody's fun bounces off of each other in these community games).

The cause is mostly that you basically have tireless virtual workers that can put out productive efforts unlike any mortal... but that is generally only if you want to spend your game time doing as such. And, no matter how quickly you might earn money playing casually... the people playing above that (and the people pushing way, way, way beyond that) are making it just as easy multiplied by a large integer.

Now, especially within CoH, the diversity of legitimate playstyles and approaches counters the nature of penalizing players for not approaching the game with the goal of optimal income earning.

Now, I, personally, never found the inflation in this game to be very hurtful. And I have been a player that doesn't run TFs very often, doesn't ever farm, usually only plays a few hours a week and when I play more often, tend to spend a lot of that time not really earning things quickly (I might be role-playing for hours or I might just be playing through a story arc very slowly). Perhaps I didn't encounter money problems because I didn't chase after IOs, so I wasn't spending all that much on my enhancements (I usually just created highest level standard IOs).
And, at least you could really turn quick profits with just a little bit of smarts on the market.
Most importantly, I seemed to earn plenty from just simply playing (very causally).
Although, my wife believes (and points out regularly) that my main, Electric-Knight, was exceedingly fortunate in all of the recipes and salvages that I'd get in missions and sell for millions. *shrug*
It's hard to say... I did have a lot more than her, but I don't honestly know how much of it was luck (She's not reading this, is she??) and how much may have been better money management.

In-Game economics are just a whacky thing to me and always have been.
I understand the concept of the fairness in work more, get more, but I think the bottom line always has to be (from the designers): What measurements of time+accomplishments are we using for the baseline of keeping it fun for everyone?
And then, everything above that is just fat cat city.
The tricky part is not really wanting too many people to fall below that level, otherwise it's just unmanageable doubleplus unfun for those players, I'd imagine.

Anyway, the inflated economy worked well for me, despite me not being a fat cat (although, winning a billion Inf in a huge cross-server costume contest did make my final results look a little fatter. Still, I never even tapped into that).

Actually, I'm more curious about what was actually low and what was average than I am about what was the richest.


@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"
-Dylan

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Equation View Post
.....
If you ever wanna get froyo, look me up, my treat.
Sure. There's always room for froyo.


-Hosun "Black Pebble" Lee
Help me beat Dr. Aeon! Follow me on Twitter.
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leandro View Post
I have a question: why the heck were so many things in the Paragon Market untradable?
There were many reasons, depending on the item.

1) Reducing RMT. Allowing for a direct conversion between $$ and in-game currency makes it easier for gold sellers. COH didn't have the RMT issues a lot of other games did, and that made monitoring abuse much more simplified. This could potentially have made that work far more complicated.

2) Exclusivity. There were certain items we wanted to have available in the store only. We want you to feel that the store items had value.

3) Technology. There were many more items where for a variety of reasons, we couldn't implement the technology to allow for trades. Super Packs being one of them. But hey, guess what we were working on for Issue 24..... (I mean I DID raise the question at the last Pummit, if anyone was paying attention to the Paragon Market panel. It wasn't a rhetorical question....)


-Hosun "Black Pebble" Lee
Help me beat Dr. Aeon! Follow me on Twitter.
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Posted

I have been loving the new demorecord tools BP
Wish I had known about all this stuff sooner.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Pebble View Post
... But hey, guess what we were working on for Issue 24..... (I mean I DID raise the question at the last Pummit, if anyone was paying attention to the Paragon Market panel. It wasn't a rhetorical question....)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...9B3Ceg#t=1148s

So this would have been a huge impact on market.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Pebble View Post
1) Reducing RMT. Allowing for a direct conversion between $$ and in-game currency makes it easier for gold sellers. COH didn't have the RMT issues a lot of other games did, and that made monitoring abuse much more simplified. This could potentially have made that work far more complicated.
I promise I'm not being intentionally obtuse, but can you elaborate?

I get it, a RMT seller can buy a $10 item worth a billion influence, sell it on the market and then try to sell that influence for more than $10 (let's say $12) and make a profit.

Except *any player* can _also_ take the $10, buy the item, and sell it for a billion influence. Why would a person spend $12 for a billion inf from a RMT, when they can spend the same $10 in the legit game store and get a billion inf that way?

(Yes, prices fluctuate and it's conceivable that the RMTers could buy items when they're at low prices and sell them when they're high. But knowing this game, chances are there's some item that would always be at the 2 billion cap and it would become the reference price for everyone, because it just can't get any higher.)


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leandro View Post
I promise I'm not being intentionally obtuse, but can you elaborate?

I get it, a RMT seller can buy a $10 item worth a billion influence, sell it on the market and then try to sell that influence for more than $10 (let's say $12) and make a profit.

Except *any player* can _also_ take the $10, buy the item, and sell it for a billion influence. Why would a person spend $12 for a billion inf from a RMT, when they can spend the same $10 in the legit game store and get a billion inf that way?

(Yes, prices fluctuate and it's conceivable that the RMTers could buy items when they're at low prices and sell them when they're high. But knowing this game, chances are there's some item that would always be at the 2 billion cap and it would become the reference price for everyone, because it just can't get any higher.)
As a rule, the easier it is to convert things freely, the easier it is for RMT to occur. Also, the less paths there are to perform RMT, the easier it becomes to detect and track. And being atomic, items can be tracked and even revoked in theory much easier than influence, which is fungible and not atomic: one sale can quickly spread through lots of transactions and end up in hundreds of different hands.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
As a rule, the easier it is to convert things freely, the easier it is for RMT to occur. Also, the less paths there are to perform RMT, the easier it becomes to detect and track. And being atomic, items can be tracked and even revoked in theory much easier than influence, which is fungible and not atomic: one sale can quickly spread through lots of transactions and end up in hundreds of different hands.
How does that translate to, say, Star Trek Online, where players can freely trade the actual in-game currency itself (Cryptic Points before, ZEN now)? What do they do differently that they can say, "sure, sell the points for dilithium, or any store item for energy credits, it's fine"?

OT: I should tell you that your signature led me to know Misfile, and I got a friend addicted to it as well.


www.SaveCOH.com: Calls to Action and Events Calendar
This is what 3700 heroes in a single zone looks like.
Thanks to @EnsonsDeath for the GVE code that made me VIP again!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leandro View Post
I promise I'm not being intentionally obtuse, but can you elaborate?

I get it, a RMT seller can buy a $10 item worth a billion influence, sell it on the market and then try to sell that influence for more than $10 (let's say $12) and make a profit.

Except *any player* can _also_ take the $10, buy the item, and sell it for a billion influence. Why would a person spend $12 for a billion inf from a RMT, when they can spend the same $10 in the legit game store and get a billion inf that way?

(Yes, prices fluctuate and it's conceivable that the RMTers could buy items when they're at low prices and sell them when they're high. But knowing this game, chances are there's some item that would always be at the 2 billion cap and it would become the reference price for everyone, because it just can't get any higher.)
Unfortunately, I think that the answer is that there are many lazy and stupid people. I and certainly don't mean to imply you, Arcanaville, or anyone in else in this thread fall into either category.

Thomas Edison had a favorite quote that he posted on his wall:
Quote:
There is no expedient to which a man will not resort to avoid the real labor of thinking.
Sir Joshua Reynolds


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leandro View Post
How does that translate to, say, Star Trek Online, where players can freely trade the actual in-game currency itself (Cryptic Points before, ZEN now)? What do they do differently that they can say, "sure, sell the points for dilithium, or any store item for energy credits, it's fine"?

OT: I should tell you that your signature led me to know Misfile, and I got a friend addicted to it as well.

Those games dont have the same RMT problems becasue the cash and Items are not worth as much to actualy do it as much.

The reason for this is simple, Someone could buy from some website so many Energy Credits as it is for startrek, but the actual in game functions allow players to do that already...thus the RMTs have a huge competition. And since most games are played by people who feel they need to win at all costs(ie the object of anygame is to win)...then the RMT outside groups will invaribly lose to the players.

This was something NC lost out on understanding.

They didnt understand that if they wanted to eliminate the price fixing by players they needed to have alternate ways to get the same items being price fixed.
Thus eliminating the value of the items.

Like for example the ingredients for crafting Invention origins...they stupidly decided to make the mission architect give less tickets..and instead uped the exp gained from it.
Thus they made it so players could power level and skip up levels with never playing the game and basicaly making it easier for players to price fix and inflate prices onthe auction house. If they had eliminated the exp gain...and upped the tickets instead...then the prices would fall real fast as the value for the items wasnt important and also made the speedy power leveling slowed.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatRock View Post
I <bleep>ing love the CoH economy.

No other game has such a level of control. And such a level of Ebil.

Release the top richest players list!
I can't for a couple reasons.

1) I don't have access to that data anymore, or the tool to generate that data.

2) There are probably privacy issues involved that would cause really puppies to weep and hamsters to explode if such a thing happened.


I do know I wasn't on that list!


-Hosun "Black Pebble" Lee
Help me beat Dr. Aeon! Follow me on Twitter.
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Posted

There's also the fact that at least some of us have more or less liquidated our fortunes.



Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight View Post
Is there a way to either see your current CAM POS and PYR settings during demo playback and/or is there a way to actually edit/save demos during demo playback?
Yes: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?p=4411091

Only for the POS, though. The PYR is stored in a weird way. But you can take two POS measurements and calculate a PYR from that.


www.SaveCOH.com: Calls to Action and Events Calendar
This is what 3700 heroes in a single zone looks like.
Thanks to @EnsonsDeath for the GVE code that made me VIP again!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Pebble View Post
would cause really puppies to weep and hamsters to explode if such a thing happened.
That's never stopped you before Black Pebble. Are you losing your ... touch?


It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Pebble View Post
I'll see your touch and raise you a glow:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vpzvhhr_ok


Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
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Posted

Oh, one question I been meaning to answer.

Why Didn't We Do Name Purges?

We all really did want to do a name purge. But there were a few major issues.


Technical Reason
The biggest being we didn't have any way of doing it. There IS no name purge tool. The first (and last) time we did it was by using an incredibly unstable ad-hoc script, which caused a ton of issues when it was finally done. You guys may not have seen it, but it broke a lot of things in the account database. Even if we wanted to run it again, we couldn't as the databases had changed too much since then.

So then the question came to how do we create a brand-new tool? It may seem like it's "just data," but keep in mind it's incredibly disorganized data. And it was stored in systems that were designed by folks who were no longer at the studio.

What should have been a simple task ended up becoming an enormous challenge, one which would have required significant resources to pull off, which would have come at the expense of content. Having a small team meant that EVERYTHING was a trade-off.


Business Reason
We also had a hard time figuring out best time to do it. With both Going Rogue and Freedom, we knew a lot of former players would come back. If they came back and found that they lost their name though, they'd be a lot less likely to stick around. Their name was an important part of their character.

So the trick was finding the right time when we had development resources AND we weren't getting a constant flood of returning players.

We're still figuring out when that time would be.


-Hosun "Black Pebble" Lee
Help me beat Dr. Aeon! Follow me on Twitter.
https://twitter.com/hosunl

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Pebble View Post
Oh, one question I been meaning to answer.

Why Didn't We Do Name Purges?

We all really did want to do a name purge. But there were a few major issues.


Technical Reason
The biggest being we didn't have any way of doing it. There IS no name purge tool. The first (and last) time we did it was by using an incredibly unstable ad-hoc script, which caused a ton of issues when it was finally done. You guys may not have seen it, but it broke a lot of things in the account database. Even if we wanted to run it again, we couldn't as the databases had changed too much since then.

So then the question came to how do we create a brand-new tool? It may seem like it's "just data," but keep in mind it's incredibly disorganized data. And it was stored in systems that were designed by folks who were no longer at the studio.

What should have been a simple task ended up becoming an enormous challenge, one which would have required significant resources to pull off, which would have come at the expense of content. Having a small team meant that EVERYTHING was a trade-off.


Business Reason
We also had a hard time figuring out best time to do it. With both Going Rogue and Freedom, we knew a lot of former players would come back. If they came back and found that they lost their name though, they'd be a lot less likely to stick around. Their name was an important part of their character.

So the trick was finding the right time when we had development resources AND we weren't getting a constant flood of returning players.

We're still figuring out when that time would be.
Haha!
Excellent information, once again. Thank you for sharing it.
Hearing about the data problems makes so much more sense now, as to why that limited script was not run for so long a stretch.

The business aspect, of course, was obvious... and then especially so when Freedom was announced.

I never had much of a problem with names, but it was indeed frustrating to know that a few names I would have preferred were on accounts so old that they had no global name and/or never seemed to have logged in during my entire time here.

Regardless, this was never a big issue for me. Just one I had my own opinions about... and I'm glad to hear a little bit more information about it.


Question:
Who will be the first Paragon Studio employee to write a best-selling tell all book?


@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"
-Dylan

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Pebble View Post
I wouldn't say this was "the best," considering I engineered the Flowbee-haircut of Positron.

It may be "craziest" though.
I was really hoping that the "craziest" would be something like, "I have an idea. Let's pretend like NCsoft is shutting down Paragon Studios and sunsetting the game to get everyone to appreciate it a lot more. We'll make a lot of headlines in the press, and when all is said and done, we'll have a TON of more subscribers and people will be more loyal than ever! I'll be we'll get SO many people posting how much they love us and the game, it will be marketing gold for decades!"

...


We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.
(If you love this game as much as I do, please read that post.)

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight View Post
Question:
Who will be the first Paragon Studio employee to write a best-selling tell all book?
There's a multi-volume set in there for the one that wants to write it.


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