Trying Mastermind... again...

I've had bad luck with the mastermind class, I enjoy it for a few levels and then get bored to tears. I know that part of my problem was that my first mastermind (which I grudgingly too to 44 before deleting her after almost 3 years of on/off play with her) was a BOT/FF. She couldn't be killed because she couldn't be hit, but it was so incredibly boring to play because I didn't do anything directly.

I spiced it up a little with a Demon/Storm and a Beast/Time, but grew bored of them both (storm in the teens, time in the low 30s). I *think* the reason I became bored with both of these is that I have high level characters (a Defender and a Corruptor) with 'Storm' and 'Time', and have a tough time playing a set more than once.

To that end I have created a Necro/Nature Mastermind that is now level 19. She seems to require me to constantly be doing something to both kill enemies (though indirectly through pet commands), and buff/healing to keep myself and my uglies alive.

Is there anything I should be aware of for this particular combination? It is fun so far, and I like to pretend she walks the line between life and death with these two power sets, which adds a bit of mental fun to the picture.

Any suggestions or comments are welcomed, thanks.

I have not played the combo, but my necro/thermal and necro/dark - the zombies tend to stay together which is VERY good for nature as well.

I made a Necro/Nature as well. Stacking tohit debuffs is always nice, and as Psylenz said Necro is very good at staying together. In fact, as far as staying at range or running into melee is concerned, Necro is nearly perfect. The Grave Knights shoot off a few blasts then run in to hack stuff. The Zombies waste no time running in to puke on stuff. The Lich never runs in because it has a perfect cycle of ranged moves that it can use indefinitely. The Lich also doesn't need healing, due to aforementioned not running in. So everything that does need healing is nicely packed in one spot for it. With Spore Cloud and the zombies you should be able to floor tohit. Wild Growth helps plug up the very noticeable weakness to smashing, lethal, and fire. Overgrowth seems like it'll be great too, with all the damage buffs.

My advice? Pick up the personal attacks. I know a lot of people say not to, but it gives you something to do when you are not busy healing or buffing or debuffing. Honestly, I can't imagine playing a mastermind without the attacks.

Sounds like anything anyone would say wouldn't really help much.

Try another AT.

All I can say is that the wait to hit 50 and get tricked out is worth it for Masterminds. You will enjoy the power.

I haven't had much luck with masterminds either, but I still have a couple ideas in mind that I want to try out. I found that certain MM secondaries (defender primaries) have "more to do" than others.

Kinetics (which isn't a MM secondary but helps me make my case) is sort of my prime example of a demanding powerset for me. With hasten and siphon speed both in effect, and slotting for recharge rate, my non-incarnate kin corruptor barely has time to attack when in a group where I'm prioritizing the kin powerset. It's to the point where I'm kicking myself a little for not making a defender.

That said, I took my ice/storm controller and prioritized recharge rate in the build. Again, with hasten in effect, I'm dropping tornadoes (with the overwhelming force KB to KD IO) , lightning storms, freezing rain, and thunderclap often enough to keep me entertained. I needed the cardiac alpha slot because I was losing the fight against the blue bar. I'm also throwing down ice slick and (from the ice mastery set) ice storm.

For a mastermind, I'd throw in the heat mastery pool, get bonfire, move the KB to KD IO to it (you can only slot 1), and let the tornadoes play kickball. Pets don't complain about abusing KB powers, but your teammates might.

Essentially my suggestion is to take a close look at the secondary sets and see what could keep you busy and entertained given a hasten induced (or even a spiritual alpha slot induced) recharge rate. Toggles and buffs / debuffs that don't stack or take too long to recharge end up being sort of boring if you have nothing else to do.

My first MM was bots / pain dom. I found that the emp and pain healing sets weren't my cup of tea 50 levels later. My next attempt at MM is going to be a beast / storm MM, when I save enough points to get BM. I have yet to establish if nature affinity would be a suitable option for me.

Good Luck!

I think your problem is that EVERY BUILD starts with Mids and you don't see it.

I think if a build is going to be doable you need to see if the math adds up and if it doesn't then you need to see that and figure out what your going to do to shore up it short comings. Incarnates are nice but at most I would only rely on Alpha because it is something that you can unlock immediately and slot up without ever doing a incarnate mission by sending over stuff from other incarnate toons.

When Cardiac came out it was something that saved my AR Device and made it playable and allowing me to keep my range defense cap. The game has changed since then and so has my AR Device for the better. Today I think I have a toon that pretty much has every power slotted to be useful and offer needed set bonuses.

I also think you should go with a main line mastermind builds before trying something like Necro Nature.

Personally, I think Necro is one of the weakest of the melee pets and overall melee pets are weak compared to other pets like Robots, Demons, Thugs.

I have not speced out a Nature build so I'm not sure what it offers set bonus wise. But I am thinking that you can never react fast enough with the heals to keep your pets alive, especially during big fights with EBs and AVs.

I have 1 petless mastermind and I am working on a 2nd which is at lvl 44 atm. Before them I created a Robot traps, Robot FF, Demon Pain, Thugs Dark. The point I'm getting at is, I willingly decide to "Gimp" myself because I do the math. I know the builds can work out. I know they are defense capped or have something going for them.

I don't know if your doing anything like that. So I sense your playing by feel. You notice your running low on endurance so you slot more stamina. If you feel you have stamina slotted up too much then you will start putting enhancement reducers in powers. Unfortunately there just comes a point where your too beat up and worn out trying to balance the build to be fun anymore so it goes in the bit bucket.

You want to try necro nature then create a build and post it. Don't understand the math or game mechanics then read up the links in my signature until you do.

Robot Traps is one of the best combos. You keep the pets out of melee range and taunt the mobs to you. You have enough debuffs and buffs to defense cap yourself and almost your pets. Triage beacon will can offer you about 250% added onto your 300% from set bonus and with enough recharge you can have 2 triage beacons out putting your regen at 800% range. That is 500% for your pets. Poison traps with lockdown proc is a great way to shut down a bunch of mobs.

Of course Robot Dark is comparable to Traps, I just favor Traps.

Er, not to step on your toes Plainguy but the point was to ENJOY the Mastermind, not for it to be min/maxed and 'workable'. I get what you are saying, mind, but it's a mastermind. Any combination is doable. The point is, what can spice it up for the OP so that they actually ENJOY the AT, not what will be best. Course the OP might enjoy that, and I may be totally off base here. *Shrugs*

well, the whole point to play a mastermind is to be a lazy boss.
you standing around, doing *nearly* nothing and stuff got killed, uuhm, sorry, defeated.
the key in the gameplay of mastermind is to be a boss, to be active only and only if your mini team profit from it. that means buffs/debuffs.

so if you get bored with buffing sets then try debuffing one, that will require pro-active gameplay. i can recommend a few.
necro/dark/soul feels more a controller. tentacles+stare is a fake aoe hold. 2 true holds (elite bosses will like it ), heals and other things. you'll be pretty busy playing it.
bots/storm is hard to master but very rewarding. for example put a damage proc in freezing rain and watch the numbers. new enhancements make tornado way less annoying. lightning storm not only do damage, but also "control" even an archvillain, its a mag 50 fear build in. and you can have 2 of them at the same time. and it is also a toggle drop.

I just got my demon/thermal mastermind to level 50 today. I have been on and off with her for like a year. I am glad she is 50 now but I find the set very cumbersome. I liked my concept for her but the mastermind set is a hard play style. I buff my pets with thermal shields get my heal ready to go, attack a mob and splat the demon are dead. I really don't think the minions should die so fast. Make me have a shorter leash and not run off. If you don't want to change the squishiness of the pets and want us to recast the then there empowerments should be automatic on them. I don't when the pets go down I have to re cast the then I have to empowerment them. To much energy to do. I hope there is a plan to make mm better.

Thanks

NA is pretty fresh, so advice on synergies may be a while coming. Could even keep us updated here.

As long as nature is very busy, you should be good okay. I really like traps and storm for mm secondaries because they both play very aggressively. There is always something for you to do, either positioning, or setting up to do some damage. Wish I had more for you.

Actually, I've got no problem doing all those things with one, extremely minimal, build. In fact, I only use one build.

And while a Force Field MM probably can't kill a GM (except maybe Bots, with the massive -reg in the Assault Bot's lasers), it can certainly kill an AV. All MM primaries have enough damage to kill an even con AV.

I didn't say all could take out a GM, did I? Except for Bots, which generally can. I said all could take out an even con AV. Without regen debuffs.

There is a difference between AVs and GMs that you appear to be forgetting.

That doesn't mean -regen is needed to kill an AV. I know I've done it without.

Thanks to all for your input, I haven't had a lot of time to be on the boards, but I'll address what questions I have seen as they pertain to me.

I use MIDs all the time to tweak builds and experiment with what I think will work. I didn't post a build for this particular post because I'm still trying to decide if the AT is worth pursuing. Most of the time I 'wing it' with new characters until level 32 and SOs. Once I am level 33 (so I have some slots in my 32 power) I decide if the character is a 'keeper', and if so I will spend time in MIDs on a build and influence on IOs.

My biggest problem with Masterminds thus far has been the lack of anything to do other than point my pets at something and watch it die. I prefer a more hands on approach to my game play. As an example, my favorite character by far is "Itsy-Bitsy Spider", and he requires me to jump around, launch attacks, and occasionally use map geometry to break up larger groups (like when I accidentally pull 2 groups together running +4/x8 DA stuff).

The "Time" corrupter I mentioned in my original post is a level 50 Dual Pistols/Time with a single Alpha slot enh. The "Storm" Defender was a level 44 (43?) Storm/Nrg that thrived on chaos (good fun, but ultimately deleted to make room long ago before we could have more than 12 toons on a server).

I have managed to get my new Mastermind ("Dr. Death Blossom", Necro/Nature) to level 25 as of the writing of this post. I haven't bothered with a MIDs build yet because I'm not sure I'm going to play it past 32, who knows? I can tell you that I am enjoying the play of this character more than either of my previous attempts at MMs. Is it because this character uses a set I have no previous experience with, or is it because I am required to be active in keeping my pets alive? I can't say for sure, but it definitely feels more like the kind of active build I enjoy.

Again, thanks for all of your input, and if you have any questions directly for me please don't hesitate to ask and I'll get back as soon as I am able.