Please change Penny Yin's costume.
By
Agent White,
Posted on: 2012-08-10 06:15 in Suggestions and Ideas
The more I look at the design pic of Penny the more I want all those as costume pieces!
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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I agree with Lothic Penny's outfit isn't a favorite by any means but I can't see putting any sort of priority on a redisgn with other things that need work. |
Originally Posted by Lothic
Yeah I'm not an extreme fan of Penny's new outfit, but don't think it's really worth anyone's effort to change it. There are far too many other things I'd rather have the Devs work on right now.
After thinking about it for a minute I wonder if Penny's new outfit was inspired by any artwork leftover from the Korean "City of Hero" game. It does sort of look more like the kind of outfit you'd see in an Asian inspired MMO. *shrugs* |
Someone else mentioned Penny is growing up.. from the second SSA we see she is still growing.. She teases Manticore using his first name and apparently played some joke on him. In retrospect.. since the guy just recently had to kill is own wife to save paragon City that could qulify as being rather tacky and uncalled for on Penny's part. But she is a young woman now.. spreading her wings, so to speak, and looking to show the world she's grown up.
If you'd like some Real World examples of blossoming females and the shocking fashions they wore... Let's start with Britney Spears former Disney Tv star that suddenly appeared first in a skimpy schoolgirl outfit and later in even less clothing with a huge snake drapped over her shoulders. Do I even need to mention the sort of stuff Linsey Lohan paraded around in or the outrageous things she's done trying to shed her good girl image? Can't even think of the girl's name now but she was on Saved by the Bell and pretty much ruined her carreer making that horrible flick where she was a stripper in Las Vegas.. At the time i can just imagine she thought it was her was to prove to the world she was all grown up and ready for big girl roles.
Penny's outfit isnt great but it isn't obscene either. Relax I'm sure her dad gives her plenty of grief about it LOL
�We�re always the good guys. In D&D, we�re lawful good. In City of Heroes we�re the heroes. In Grand Theft Auto we pay the prostitutes promptly and never hit them with a bat.� � Leonard
�Those women are prostitutes? You said they were raising money for stem cell research!� � Sheldon
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Yeah, that's pretty much exactly what I mean. I really don't want Penny to be comparable to "Paragon City's Lindsey Lohan."|
Originally Posted by Wicked_Wendy
some Real World examples of blossoming females... Britney Spears ...Linsey Lohan... that horrible flick where she was a stripper in Las Vegas...
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In fact, I don't think you could have made that argument for me any better.
Let's all not forget about the Clockwork King. You know, that ill-tempered archvillain with his own army of robots standing ready to pancake you up if you so much as sneeze on Penny Yin?
Yeah. I'm sure the risk of getting mauled to death by ticked-off Clockwork would be plenty of incentive NOT to tell Penelope Yin that her costume sucks. Which might be why her costume sucks. And why she's kind of a spoiled brat.
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"Showgirls", starring Elizabeth Berkley. Another Paul Verhoeven masterpiece of modern cinema.|
Originally Posted by Wicked_Wendy
Can't even think of the girl's name now but she was on Saved by the Bell and pretty much ruined her carreer making that horrible flick where she was a stripper in Las Vegas.. At the time i can just imagine she thought it was her was to prove to the world she was all grown up and ready for big girl roles.
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Add sarcasm to taste.
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I can't think of anyone I know who watched it for "plot". |
Originally Posted by Elf_Sniper
Another Paul Verhoeven masterpiece of modern cinema.
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As for her actions on Manticore... let's not forget he had Kalinda rummage through there, too, so congrats on behaving like Recluse's pet Fortunata. Besides, what the hell were you looking for in his brain? The best I could think of would be "looking to see if Sis P. is hiding in there".
Out of Character: Lose the face plate-thingy and tone down all of the strapping and I could tolerate it. It very much looks like something a late-teens early 20's woman would slap together. I think what may be throwing us off is that they didn't narrow her waist just a hair on her in game model (while keeping her waist and bust size realistic) before tossing her in to a more mature outfit. Not much would be needed but it would make the over the top look a little less jarring.
In Character: It gets funny. I don't do much on-board RP, but I have a running list of what my character would do/think at any given bit of plot. So my vigilante pre-teen character is thinking 'No, they just let me in the door again, so I shouldn't do the judge and jury thing even if I'm cool with it'. Okay, uhm, "Sorry, you're under arrest for your attack." Back at the base Penny does the teenage girl thing of talking to someone about the person trying to talk to her ((Seriously Penny, we stopped doing that in high school.)) and implies my character is lacking a vital quality that would make her 'human'. *big sad eyes* *sniffle* *gets mad* "Ha! Well you have the same boob size and waist thickness as a 12 year old!" *goes to get pat on the head and told she did good by Manticore*
re: Britney, Lindsay, et al - this is by no means a recent phenomenon. Consider Annette Funicello, who went pretty much straight from The Mickey Mouse Club to cavorting on beach blankets in (what were for the time, rather less so these days) daringly cut swimsuits. Or Sherry Jackson, adorable co-star of Make Room For Daddy, who demonstrated she'd grown up (and how!) by appearing on Star Trek in one of Bill Theiss' most (in)famous costumes, which was basically just bell bottoms and some wide suspenders. No doubt there are even older examples; these are just the ones I'm personally familiar with.
It is probable that as long as there are people, there will be adolescents/young adults asserting and exploring their newfound sexuality (often in ways that they themselves will later admit, with the benefit of hindsight and experience, to have been embarrassingly clueless and/or tacky). And there will always be scandalized and (over)protective adults to tell them to go put some clothes on right now, young lady!
My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City
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This^|
Originally Posted by BrandX
The more I look at the design pic of Penny the more I want all those as costume pieces!
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*Changes the title of this thread to "Please give us Penny Yin's costume"
--RESTRAINT. We definitely wanted Penelope to look sleek, womanly, and attractive but in an age-appropriate way. Hence the almost complete coverage of her bodysuit. Plenty of curves, but she definitely looks well equipped and ready for combat.
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That part confuses me. What does he even mean by age appropriate?
Can't show more skin because she's...in her twenties?
There's great costumes that cover up all of many superheroes. Rogue's is simple and does just that. I usually think she has one of the best costumes around (usually is key here).
But 1) I've seen teens wear less 2) The idea that she's in her 20's means she can't show more skin if she wants because...it's not age appropriate?
That line of thinking sounds more like "We think some people are so pancaking easily offended by some costumes we didn't want to have her show much if any skin."
Again, no complaints about costume that cover up every bit of skin. I just hate that, that comment made it sound like that was the reasoning.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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I'd say making Penny one of the "signature" heroes of the game and plastering her trollface on the login screen would have demanded at least some more scrutiny and aesthetics first. To paraphrase Yahtzee, deliberately bad is still bad, and that's been the "face" of the game since I23 launched. You don't put something that's intentionally bad - by David's own admission, no less - on the front cover of your game unless you're trying to be edgy, and a niche game about super heroes trying to be edgy is pretty much the height of poor judgement.|
Originally Posted by Megajoule
It is probable that as long as there are people, there will be adolescents/young adults asserting and exploring their newfound sexuality (often in ways that they themselves will later admit, with the benefit of hindsight and experience, to have been embarrassingly clueless and/or tacky). And there will always be scandalized and (over)protective adults to tell them to go put some clothes on right now, young lady!
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I wouldn't really mind Penny if she were just one of Twinshot's clowns - those guys are pretty much badly designed across the board, with Twinshot herself taking the prize for her horrible elbow-length sleeves - but you don't see people clamouring to judge them. Sure, they show up far more often than they should, but they're still second-stringers. Penny is the signature character that Sister Psyche had to die to make room for. She's on the loading screen and a lot of the promotional material. You can't just make her costume intentionally bad to depict a young woman's lack of experience and exceedingly poor judgement when you're using her as the face of the game.
Say what you will about the Statesman - he was corny, his costume was ugly and the character was underdeveloper - but he represented what the game stood for: Reimagining comic books in a more "contemporary" environment, but still retaining the roots of the genre. In a sense, having about the worst example of a "tights" super hero in a world where his kind is just about extinct works as the game's face, because it shows the clash of the old and the new. Penny's "I fell over backwards into my belts closet" costume doesn't say anything about the game.
Basically, if you're going to make a character important and signature, then you HAVE to put more care in their design and you HAVE to run this design through more people than just the one artist designing it. Not necessarily through the forums, obviously, but you have to run it through someone in the studio who isn't afraid to tell people their baby is ugly... Literally, in this case.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I'm fine with the costume.
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Hey, here's an idea about a new Penelope Yin costume:
PSYCHIC, MAGICAL SCHOOLGIRL, FOLKS!
(Okay, this is just a gag post dude to my "What if Penelope modeled her costume off of Magical Girls. Though I can imagine everyone deciding they'd have no issue about 20+ year old penelope yin dressing like she was still in highschool... Or like Cardcaptor Sakura.)
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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But Mr. Yin is from China, not Japan. :P
(Penny Yin as a magical girl would be pretty funny, though.)
Sam:
Are you kidding? Penny's costume is so representative of comics, it (almost literally) hurts! It's distilled Nineties! And if a look at my comic store's racks tells me anything, it's that the Nineties Are Back with the Big Two. Hooray, 20-year cycle!
You (and I) may find it tasteless, but I defy you to tell me that Penny's face paint, spine-twisting fan-serving posture, and pouch-tastic outfit aren't authentic. I'm half-tempted to have one of my con-going friends commission a sketch of her by Jim Lee or the Liefeld himself to complete the circle.
(Hey, no one ever said this game was only going to cover the good parts of the genre.)
My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City
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What I'm saying is that the game has its roots in a sort of different age of comic books. I can't say if it's good or bad, just that who the face of the game is should be picked a little more carefully than "let's kill Jack's creations because old stuff is old" as it was here. I'm not saying the 90s didn't happen or we should forget them or anything like that. I'm just not sure "exactly like the 90s" is a good face for the game. Sure, the Statesman wasn't ideal, either, with his overly-rustic goofy tights costume, but there ought to be a middle ground.|
Originally Posted by Megajoule
Sam:
Are you kidding? Penny's costume is so representative of comics, it (almost literally) hurts! It's distilled Nineties! And if a look at my comic store's racks tells me anything, it's that the Nineties Are Back with the Big Two. Hooray, 20-year cycle! |
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Also, here's why I came to post. I watched yesterday's Linkara video on Catwoman: Guardian of Gotham and I was reminded about the primary reason I don't like Penny Yin's costume - it's made to resemble a much more revealing one without actually being as revealing. That version of Catwoman is such a great example of this I want to post it for comparison:
[img]http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/4/40763-6318-45985-1-catwoman-guardian-o_large.jpg[/quote]
Just have a quick glance at that and tell me what it looks like. What it IS is a woman in a horrible black-and-purple costume. What it LOOKS LIKE because of how the colours and details are arranged, is a dominatrix wearing a thong corset with her boobs plopped out. When you have a corset strapped to thigh-high high-heel boots via garter belts and leather sleeves belted to each other with a bare chest, it doesn't matter if you wear that over pink long johns - what it looks like is a woman wearing bondage gear one way or the other.
Why I bring this up is this is the primary reason I dislike Penny's costume on a principle level. Her pants look like thigh-high high-heel boots over panties and her top looks like a corset. I don't know who's so enamoured with corsets on the Dev team, but this is pretty much the cornerstone of the whole problem with Gunslinger and Steampunk and Barbarian, the costume sets.
To me, either Penny shouldn't have been made into such a high-profile character and used as promotional material, or she should have been given a better costume that got run through a few sets of eyes.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Well she is asian|
Originally Posted by Lothic
Yeah I'm not an extreme fan of Penny's new outfit, but don't think it's really worth anyone's effort to change it. There are far too many other things I'd rather have the Devs work on right now.
After thinking about it for a minute I wonder if Penny's new outfit was inspired by any artwork leftover from the Korean "City of Hero" game. It does sort of look more like the kind of outfit you'd see in an Asian inspired MMO. *shrugs* |
I don't think we need to change her costume, I am with alot of people when I say its rather Meh, but I don't feel that sense of the willies the OP does, its JUST A GAME!
The thing I don't get is why is she still basically a kid/ young teen (I assume 10-13 since DOES have boobs) in fault line and clearly much older ine every other part of the game? Some one tried to tell me it was cause you are basically playing out years of time from her arch till her TF which is really rather silly since the levels for each respectively isn't that far off. So really if any thing they need to change that contact to the older her, or to a new contact or something and relegate the original version to the Oro portal cause right now for that reason Fault line feels like it is trapped in a time paradox.
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Apparently, she was always supposed to be 18 in the Faultline arcs, and is 23 'now' - i.e. when she replaces Sister Psyche in the Phalanx. That boggled me a little, but when I went back ad read the Faultline arcs there wasn't anything specifically that contradicted it. I guess she's just a slightly immature 18.
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Originally Posted by Xenophage
The thing I don't get is why is she still basically a kid/ young teen (I assume 10-13 since DOES have boobs) in fault line
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Defiant @Grouchybeast
Death is part of my attack chain.
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Yes. That's exactly what these costumes are meant to look like/imply/evoke. You have figured it out. I congratulate you on your perspicacity, sir!|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Just have a quick glance at that and tell me what it looks like. What it IS is a woman in a horrible black-and-purple costume. What it LOOKS LIKE because of how the colours and details are arranged, is a dominatrix wearing a thong corset with her boobs plopped out. When you have a corset strapped to thigh-high high-heel boots via garter belts and leather sleeves belted to each other with a bare chest, it doesn't matter if you wear that over pink long johns - what it looks like is a woman wearing bondage gear one way or the other.
Why I bring this up is this is the primary reason I dislike Penny's costume on a principle level. Her pants look like thigh-high high-heel boots over panties and her top looks like a corset. |
Should they? Should this be the featured character of the new issues, the "face" of the game as you say? That's another question. But as your first link proves, you can't say that Penny's new costume (or Sister Psyche's before her) doesn't fit the source material. It's every bit as impractical, titillating, objectifying, sexist, and potentially offensive!
(Heck, it's a step up from Shalice's green lingerie as far as actual amount of skin shown.
)
My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City
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okay fair enough, that still doesn't solve the time paradox
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Originally Posted by Grouchybeast
Apparently, she was always supposed to be 18 in the Faultline arcs, and is 23 'now' - i.e. when she replaces Sister Psyche in the Phalanx. That boggled me a little, but when I went back ad read the Faultline arcs there wasn't anything specifically that contradicted it. I guess she's just a slightly immature 18.
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There's a place for sexy heroines and shirtless heroes. I a) don't think Penny is a particularly good target for that, given how we were introduced to her b) don't find her costume sexy anyway (although as it's drawn in the splash art it's certainly objectifying -- the concept art is tamer and the in-game costume is kind of flat), and c) as has been pointed out, she's a young lady; we don't even need to recton this, she can just change it and say it was a bad idea.
I respect the work Noble Savage did, but the final presentation has slowly grated on me. I don't really have the opportunity to do it now but sometime in the next couple days I think I'll put up a few in-game costume generator ideas. My freehand skills are sadly lacking. ;p
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I agree with the "not particularly sexy" statement but the argument that she is a young lady is EXACTLY why she is scantily clad if she is as stated above about 23 she is prime age to dress rather scantily.|
Originally Posted by Jack_NoMind
There's a place for sexy heroines and shirtless heroes. I a) don't think Penny is a particularly good target for that, given how we were introduced to her b) don't find her costume sexy anyway (although as it's drawn in the splash art it's certainly objectifying -- the concept art is tamer and the in-game costume is kind of flat), and c) as has been pointed out, she's a young lady; we don't even need to recton this, she can just change it and say it was a bad idea.
I respect the work Noble Savage did, but the final presentation has slowly grated on me. I don't really have the opportunity to do it now but sometime in the next couple days I think I'll put up a few in-game costume generator ideas. My freehand skills are sadly lacking. ;p |
Also as stated before there are a million other things the Devs need to work on that are way more important, like story line, new costume pieces more power sets etc.
I am sorry you find the new yin disturbing, but you seem to be alone in that feeling and even the others who agree it should be changed for w/e other reasons they have have pointed out it is such a low priority.
but lets argue for a moment the Devs do get a moment to change her costume just to please what is clearly a minority I actually have a solution to this Dilemma and that would be a penelope yin costume contest the winners design to be voted upon by the forum goers or on facebook or w/e.
Like I said though I am sure it is super low on the priority list if at all.
as far as the comments about how sexist or revealing or w/e her costume or Sis P.'s is/was I will point out a few inescapable facts:
1) there are ALOT and I do mean ALOT of costume pieces we are given that allow for much more revealing costumes then Yin's or Sisters and I have seen people using them
2) While there a good number of modestly dressed super heroins in comic books there are also alot of them that are quite scantly dressed, but both in game and in comics its nothing the average 13 year old hasn't seen if they have ever seen the WWE, an issue of Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue, FHM, Lowrider Magazine, a PC gamer etc etc ... you get the point.
If we are going to start fixing NPC costumes based on how "Kinky" or "titillating" they are we'd have to kind of start with Mother mayhem and silver mantis.
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Quick! Stop typing and finish the surgery!|
Originally Posted by Xenophage
Also as stated before there are a million other things the Devs need to work on that are way more important, like story line, new costume pieces more power sets etc.
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...I'm not saying Noble Savage doesn't have other important things to do, of course. But I personally promise you that asking him to sketch up a couple more costumes for Penny isn't going to slow down the release of any new powersets, storylines, or even costume packs.
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| I am sorry you find the new yin disturbing, but you seem to be alone in that feeling |
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| If we are going to start fixing NPC costumes based on how "Kinky" or "titillating" they are we'd have to kind of start with Mother mayhem and silver mantis. |
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I can swear it was proven already that the "spine bending" done with Penny was already proven to be possible, and that everyone complaining about it was wrong.|
Originally Posted by Megajoule
Sam:
Are you kidding? Penny's costume is so representative of comics, it (almost literally) hurts! It's distilled Nineties! And if a look at my comic store's racks tells me anything, it's that the Nineties Are Back with the Big Two. Hooray, 20-year cycle! You (and I) may find it tasteless, but I defy you to tell me that Penny's face paint, spine-twisting fan-serving posture, and pouch-tastic outfit aren't authentic. I'm half-tempted to have one of my con-going friends commission a sketch of her by Jim Lee or the Liefeld himself to complete the circle. (Hey, no one ever said this game was only going to cover the good parts of the genre.) |
It wasn't a picture of Wonder Woman giving a full front chest view at the same time as her butt.
*rolls eyes*
How that little bit seems to get overdone.
Also, the 90's were not bad in comics.
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The BrandX Collection
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The problem with this idea, is that in CoH, it's all to common of a hero outfit.
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Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel
Hey, here's an idea about a new Penelope Yin costume:
PSYCHIC, MAGICAL SCHOOLGIRL, FOLKS! (Okay, this is just a gag post dude to my "What if Penelope modeled her costume off of Magical Girls. Though I can imagine everyone deciding they'd have no issue about 20+ year old penelope yin dressing like she was still in highschool... Or like Cardcaptor Sakura.) |
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The BrandX Collection
This is the downside of everything coming back 20 years later. Maybe we should be grateful that she still has feet.
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