Praetorian Zone Events, Badges, and Healers

But the devs also gave you a secondary FULL of attacks. They didn't limit you to 1, you did.

Something about an Empath buffbot + full Medicine =

Originally Posted by EarthWyrm But I do understand that there is an internet rule that any bad idea must be presented by someone at least twice a year to remind everyone who hasn't already read every previous thread on the topic precisely why the idea is bad.

Not in my case; I have put recharge reductions into all three to get the recharges down.

And yes, I do have the medicine pool.

And the Barrier Incarnate power.

Originally Posted by EarthWyrm But I do understand that there is an internet rule that any bad idea must be presented by someone at least twice a year to remind everyone who hasn't already read every previous thread on the topic precisely why the idea is bad.

EMP/Energy, and it's too late to change. I have too many badges to start over.


You probably are recalling correctly. Apparently, what is happening is my autopower is NOT counting toware my total. I am not, however, "standing there with an attack on auto and occasionally mashing heal other." My typical "attack chain" looks like this:
Going into battle: Power Build Up, Hasten, Recovery Aura, Regeneration Aura, Conserve Power, Aim. In battle, buff with Fortitude, Adrenaline Boost, Clear Mind, and as recharge allows, Support Radial Embodiment. Heal with Heal Other, Healing Aura, Absorb Pain, and as recharge allows, Rebirth Partial Radial Invocation. Autoattack with Power Bolt, and as recharge allows, Warworks Partial Radial Improved Ally and Cryonic Core Final Judgement. These are my main battle powers. Not to mention monitor EVERYBODY's health, recall friend and Resurrect and Rescusitate as necessary. So, no, I'm not "occasionally mashing heal other."

Originally Posted by EarthWyrm But I do understand that there is an internet rule that any bad idea must be presented by someone at least twice a year to remind everyone who hasn't already read every previous thread on the topic precisely why the idea is bad.

Saying it again, just in case it was missed.

Originally Posted by EarthWyrm But I do understand that there is an internet rule that any bad idea must be presented by someone at least twice a year to remind everyone who hasn't already read every previous thread on the topic precisely why the idea is bad.

No. The argument is that your build is sub-optimal FOR THE GAME YOU ARE PLAYING. Don't compare with other people. Compare to the fact that the game AS DESIGNED is not awarding you that badge because your build doesn't really work well for the event AS DESIGNED.

Okay, so it's a special purpose build. Fine. I understand you don't solo with it. Okay. But badge-hunting is clearly also an issue FOR THAT BUILD.


BTW, I came across your other thread first and made a much longer post there with two suggestions on how to fix the problem (having pets and having someone buff you) and an offer to help if you're on Infinity.

I've never killed anything in this that didn't count toward the totals, at least on purpose, and I've gotten the badge on plenty of characters.

note that I said I was going for the emote, I dont know if it is on the same reward table

Gotcha AG. But, according to Zombie Man, in City of Heroes Forums > removed forum sections > Issue 19 Alpha Strike Open Beta: Announcements, Chatter, & Discussion
GUIDE: Issue 19 Open Beta


Rewards for participation in the zone events will be based on the amount of participation, and not just damage done -- (de)buffing and heals are tracked. By some unknown metric, you will be given either the Top Tier or the Lower Tier Reward Table upon completion.

Removing all the arguements about my build, my question is, why isn't the badge in the Lower Tier Reward Table, instead of the Top Tier?

And as to why I use Aim: If I didn't, I'd never hit anything with my autopower.

Originally Posted by EarthWyrm But I do understand that there is an internet rule that any bad idea must be presented by someone at least twice a year to remind everyone who hasn't already read every previous thread on the topic precisely why the idea is bad.

Great. But that doesn't necessarily mean you're playing a defender/controller/corruptor well.

Any idiot can sit there and rock aura and heal a couple dozen HP worth of wounds with a couple jillion points of heals. It doesn't mean you're necessarily contributing (or not contributing a much as you could).

Take my FF/Arch defender. Do I spend all my time with my **** in my hand going "Your defense is buffed, job done!"

Nope. I toss out the personal shields, pop my big bubble(s) and then proceed to make enemies resemble hedgehogs (roughly 99% of my time is spent attacking).

Then the people you're teaming with are morons. Plain and simple.
Yes, you MIGHT be helping people who're playing with severely broken builds to be somewhat competitive. But for people with sensible builds or people rocking optimized builds, you're not helping them all that much.

But you're telling us that the rewards system is telling you that you're not doing enough to qualify.

Great. But what are you doing when people don't need healing?

Great. But what are you doing when people don't need to be rezzed?

Great. And what are you doing when they don't need to have their endurance buffed?

In short. What are you doing the other 99% of the time?

Demonstrably false.
There are things you can't solo. And the participation metric takes into account your attacks as well. If you don't attack, or don't attack enough, you're not participating.

Yet you're failing to get a reward table for participating by doing "what you do".

Yay. But if you're not also contributing damage output, you're not fully contributing to the team. Sure, you my only contribute another 5% of total damage output for the team. But that's the GM/AV/etc dying 5% faster.

And on decent teams, you just wait...and wait...and wait...

An SR scrapper taking only one secondary MAY be able to solo. But they're not going to do it well. Worse, they're going to die. A LOT.

And you're not "a healer". You're a defender. Or a controller. Or a corruptor. There is NO "healer" AT in the game.

Literally EVERY AT IN THIS GAME has the capability of healing. The ability to heal doesn't make you special. It's simply one of the tools in your toolbox. You've basically got 10-12 hammers, and need to drive a screw.

Again. If a FF defender sits there and relies SOLELY upon bubbles and does NOTHING else, THEY AREN'T CONTRIBUTING. Why do you think teammate bubbles are now AoE? To free the bubbler from having to cycle through 8+ people every 4 minutes instead of attacking as they should be.


The problem is that you're not contributing ANY damage at all. Or doing it in amounts so miniscule as to be incidental. As such you're not contributing.

Nobody's saying you have to kill every enemy, or contribute X% of damage on every enemy killed. But you DO have to be attacking regularly, in addition to buffing/debuffing/healing to be considered as a participant.

Taking a single attack and using it once in a blue moon doesn't meet this basic requirement.

Yes. You're given an OPTION not to take any more offensive powers. But there's a basic EXPECTATION that you should.

You are NOT a mastermind. And your teammates are NOT your pets.

Empaths are not shortchanged.

Players who build "pure healer" empaths are shortchanging THEMSELVES. These type of builds are only marginally better than door-sitters.

Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.

This. Emphasis added for, well, emphasis.

Originally Posted by EarthWyrm But I do understand that there is an internet rule that any bad idea must be presented by someone at least twice a year to remind everyone who hasn't already read every previous thread on the topic precisely why the idea is bad.

Explosive blast with the Overwhelming Force special would provide a surprising amount of mitigation without annoying everyone.

Admittedly it's a fairly new option for Energy that it didn't have before, but it's still an option.

You need all that to keep alive the one person who was duoing the event with you?

They must have a really bad build. On my emps when I duo, Fort and auras alternating with AB is plenty, only occasionally using Heal Other or Aura. I never have to use Absorb Pain (and frequently skip it, in situations where it's actually needed, pressing it is usually a suicide button).

On a big team, unless the emp is the only support, it's much the same. Either I'm blasting/controlling away or I'm standing there doing nothing. I suppose spamming clear mind on people who don't need it is one way to pass the time but everything else has a fairly long recharge.

If the emp is the only support, well then the heals aren't all overheal and I think the participation mechanic takes that into account. If you just want to get the badge for this one, cycling energy bolt/brawl (non-autopower) while buffing and healing only as necessary should be more than enough to get it.

PS: If your emp is your badge character, I'd highly recommend a second build slotted for damage (with procs) and offensively-oriented incarnate powers. Otherwise you'll have a very hard time getting into a successful league for badges like Ready to Rumble/Hard Way/Really Hard Way, which require the entire league to do as much damage as possible. A few people with Rebirth/Barrier are more than enough to cover the defensive needs on Tyrant for that one, so damage and debuffs are king.

Again, we are talking about a "Mine is right, yours is wrong" arguement. I built my character the way I did because I build my characters based upon a "story"; in this case, the story is that she has a need to heal rather than harm. So, based upon her story, I built a what-you-call a "buffbot". Yes, I can use an alternative build, give this toon more damaging powers, but, then, that's not her story, is it. And if she can't do it while maintaining her story, then, well, there's no hope for humanity, is there ;-)

Well, I can't speak for those other people, only myself, and my teammate. And he can speak for me and he would tell you that I "materially participated." In his eyes. In mine. Just not from the game engine's point of view. Which is fine, I guess. Like was said before: that's the way the game was built, deal. I have put in a petition to change the statement in paragonwiki from "Complete the ..." to "Materially participate in the..." I think the original was misleading.

Actually, I slotted three Gaussians in it. I took it because, at level 38 I had taken all the power pool powers I wanted (Recall Friend, Super Speed, Hasten, Teleport, Aid Other, Aid Self, Resuscitate, Stealth, and Teleport Foe), had taken all the Primary powerset powers available, and was stuck choosing it. And because I still couldn't hit anything without it.

I'm all for concept, don't get me wrong. I have to be able to explain every powerset combo I make, which is why I don't have something crazy like Bots/Dark or something (which, yes, I understand EVERYTHING can have a concept explained, but I don't like to reach much.).

However, that being said, the point was already brought up: Our builds are right for receiving this badge. Yours (and your playstyle) is wrong. For this particular badge (and any other reward like it). Not wrong like smacking children is wrong, but wrong as in "you won't get it doing it the way you're doing it."

As for your concept, why is the one, lonely attack even in your tray at all? If this h3410rbot is so conceptually unable to cause harm to zombies/Nazis/ghosts/tech pirates/real pirates/killer mushrooms/aliens/ninjas/ninja aliens/demons, etc, why use it, EVER? Doesn't that little bit of concept-breaking justify having a little more usefulness on a team by having actual attacks?

Speaking of, if you join a TF or trial team, and see literally ANY other support AT, do you feel useless?

Originally Posted by EarthWyrm But I do understand that there is an internet rule that any bad idea must be presented by someone at least twice a year to remind everyone who hasn't already read every previous thread on the topic precisely why the idea is bad.

Speaking as a suicidal blaster: Heck Yeah! Fortitude and Adrenalin Boost are some of my favorite buffs. I'll even admit to deliberately crashing my endurance to encourage Empaths to give me AB instead of someone else (for some reason a lot of Empaths seem to distribute AB based on who needs the Endurance rather than who benefits from the recharge).

One time I was playing my TA/A Defender on a team with an Empath. Now normally on my TA/A I don't use EMP Arrow all the time, I tend to save it for when the team needs a bit of a boost. However in this case I noticed that whenever I used EMP Arrow the Empath would see my endurance drop a lot and immediately use Adrenalin Boost on me. End result: I used EMP Arrow whenever it was up for the rest of the Task Force.

This is how I operate with my AB. If you have no endurance, all you can do is brawl. That **** is whack, yo. Have some endurance++!

(Unless there is a Granite user on board, then they get AB because the recharge for them is monstrously delicious. They can attack like a normal character! But that doesn't happen often, cos Granite isn't needed in most content, so AB gets spread around to the endurance abusers.)

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I had a feeling from my first post that the OP's was a "pure healer" complaint. Good to see I've still got my radar.

Originally Posted by Dispari I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.

No, but it's a pretty good indicator.

Are you calling me an idiot? An ad hominem arguement. Classic.


That's you. I'm sure when you are playing, you play to the best of your ability. I'm sure you are not spending your time withyour *** in your hand, nor are you playing with unslotted powers, no insps, etc. Assuming basic common sense in even the most "idiotic" of players, none of us are. Im just playing with a different set of powersets and power choices.

Another ad hominem arguement.

Conversely, I ASSUME that I'm helping people who're playing with broken builds, who are playing with their **** is their hands, because, quite frankly, that's what I find. You see, I'm a helper, or more precisely a HELPER, it's right there, over my head, I read it all the time. Newbies, noobs, and new supergroup members come to me because they know they can do the stupid stuff and, with a EMP DEF on the team, their mistakes will be mitigated.

There have been times when I have been on a team that didn't need me. Sure. It happens. Usually when running a mish that is three or four levels old for the mish owner, things like that. Then what do I do? Nothing. I ride it out. I say, "Good job", and, "you guys don't really need a healer." But those times are rare. The thing is, if they don't need a healer, then they surely don't need any extra firepower from me. I may be redundant, but I'm not useless. Next mish, they'll need me again.

I CAN solo, I just don't. It takes me longer, with my one attack, but I can. It doesn't make sense for me to solo, with my five wasted powers, but I can. And in this case, I attack, I AUTOattack. so it's not that it's not enough. I participate. With buffs and heals.

Every time a tank goes down to red on his health bar, I am contributing. If I keep him alive a little while longer, I'm contributing. He now has the ability to hit more than he did without me. Whether it's because he didn't have to spend the time going to his base, the hospital, buying inspirations, I'm contributing that much more. My time was spent making his time more productive. If he dies, goes to the hospital and returns, it has taken him more time to do that than he has spent already on attacking the creature that killed him. If I save him this hassle, he has spent that time attacking that creature. That's WAY more valuable than 5%.

Doesn't happen on decent teams. Most decent teams know to protect their healer.


I am an Empathy Defender, I said that at the beginning. I am using "healer" as shorthand for that. I'm sorry if I confused you.

Yes, everyone in the game has the ability to heal, but very few take the power to heal. Are you saying that you're a proponent of "Everyone must have a heal power" Well, what if then, someone came up to you and said that if you didn't take two different types of heal powers (say, the Medicine pool ALSO), that you were an idiot! How would that make you feel?

YOUR OPINION! I've seen situations where FF defenders have been brought on mishs solely to bubble against one AV.

I am contributing. By increasing the ability of my teammates to do damage. It's not directly damaging. It's not Dps, but it IS DoT.

No other AT and powerset has to do what a healer does. You make buffing/debuffing/healing sound as if it were secondary to attacking. Not so with the Empathy powerset. It says so, right there in the description: "Empathy gives you the ability to heal and aid allies as well as yourself. Empathy has no offensive powers, but its heals and buffs are unmatched." And that's the PRIMARY powerset. That is what an Emp Def, a healer, does.

I don't think I read that in the rules anywhere. Can you point that out to me? You are given an option, I chose to take it. That's why there's chocolate AND vanilla ice cream.

Never said they were. Merely pointed out that to their benefit, I am contributing to their ability to do more damage. If they choose not to do that damage, well, then I have lost a firing of Fortitude, or whatever, they have lost an opportunity to do that damage, and there is no attack button I can press that will make them attack, and I knowingly accept that fact.

And we close with another ad hominem attack arguement.

I'm not sure why you dislike "pure healer" empaths so much, but your entire arguement seems to be "you're stupid for building your character the way you want to build it." Which to me, sounds a lot like, "my build is right, yours is wrong"

Thank you, I understand now what you mean by wrong, and I get it. And you're right, I can use a different build and get the badge. Now, understand me: completing the event and not getting the badge is wrong, like smacking children is wrong. The event is hard enough, and to have completed it, enough to get the Low Tier reward table, should grant a badge, or at least the ability to select the badge. That's my point.

Because the concept is that if the attack is used, it is only used in dire circumstances, and among friends who will understand the "slip-up." That's the concept. The reality of it is, after a while, it became a challenge to myself, to keep from adding another attack power from my secondary powerset.

Nope, I welcome the assistance. If anything, I like to think I tend to make them feel useless.