So I want to return but...

Sure, you can be forgiven for a little knee-jerk emotionalism. You're one of those unfortunate 'tweeners who has enough experience with the game to have certain high expectations, to have invested in various parts of the game that aren't free -- but who also doesn't have enough Vet time to get most of the Paragon Rewards' perks for free.

I understand how you feel. And I genuinely hope you'll decide to stick around, either as a free player or as a paying player. Your presence enriches the community; don't let anyone tell you differently.

It's just that the sheer volume of threads about how this-or-that feature should be free wears on you, after awhile. None of my previous rant was addressed to you in particular; it was meant to address the accusation (by another poster) that many formerly cool, old-timey forumites have turned into miserly curmudgeons since the F2P model launched. And maybe that's true, but if it is true, then it's understandable -- at least as understandable as your emotional reaction to the gating of the Invention system in City of Heroes Freedom.

Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze Nice build

I do:
Stop turning returning players away from the game before they even have a chance of considering paying anything towards it.

And that applies to both the Invention Licence issues and how the existing player base reacts to anyone having issues with it.

Obsessing over "who's right" and "who's entitled" does absolutely nothing to help Paragon Studios make money. If anything, it harms their ability to do so, as players who feel upset, no matter how justified they are in feeling that way, come to the community and just get abused, resulting in someone who is never ever going to pay money towards the game again.

Returning players already know what the game is like.

Players that left before I9 will return to characters that play the same as before except for changes made to the powers themselves and not the enhancements slotted. Restricted IO access isn't going to turn them away. It's just something new added while they were gone, and curiosity is far more likely to get them to sub/buy a liscence and try it out than drive them away.

Players that left after I9 already know how their characters play using IO's and can make an informed decision about whether or not they want to spend $2 dollars a month on a liscence or $15 for a sub.

Good post!

Let me add that the game will be balanced around IO's in the near future (eg New Snipe), so they will be forced to re-evaluate the perks available to VIPs, Prems, and Free players.

Again, that doesn't matter.
It doesn't matter if they should be getting turned away, what matter is that they are getting turned away.

It really doesn't matter how "right" you are Forbin, what matters is that these people aren't paying money, when they might have done if they'd stayed longer.

Keeping them around by cutting down on what they may feel compelled to spend money on is a battle that ultimately ends either in being fully free or else having this same debate centred around a different pay-line-of-demarcation. The line has to be drawn somewhere if it's to be drawn at all, and wherever it's drawn not everyone will be satisfied with it.

Where did I say that IOs should be made free?

There are many solutions to this problem that don't involve that. Such as reducing IOs to the effectiveness of SOs without the licence, or a great big warning sign when a player tries to unlock a character slotted with IOs.

Where did I say you did?

Reducing the IOs in effectiveness is a novel idea that I could get behind, but it only partially addresses the complaints people put forward about them. Others will still complain that their characters aren't what they ought to be. If we keep giving inches to keep these folks around, eventually we'll have given a whole mile. Thus, the reasoning that we should give them that inch just to keep them around is inherently flawed. There may be a good reason to do so, but that isn't it.

Oddly, when I came back the game almost immediately "gave me a chance of considering paying" something towards it.

I ran a character through the tutorial, figuring I'd been a way a while, it was new and I should check it out, and at some point a contact said "hey, there's a market, go pick up this badge for free, and maybe while you're there take a look around, there's a bunch of stuff for sale".

Or words to that effect.

Some people are so whiny and entitled they'll never be satisfied however many concessions you make for them.

I was gone for a year, came back, played the Free game and the only thing that bugged me about it was a lack of slots. Yeah, that's as a max tier vet, but with 7 years of continuous subscription behind me I feel justifiably entitled to those considerations.

The game is very open to new and returning players.
Making it any more so would frankly undermine the incentive to remain VIP.

Implicitly.

That makes no sense, giving one inch does not mean any more need be given.
If giving the "inch" of scaled IOs or a warning sign keeps even one player around long enough to spend money, then that's a gain.

Right now, players are leaving because they come with one idea of the game and when they arrive they find another. It's quite possible to eliminate that without any loss of sales elsewhere.

And, quite frankly, I don't see any issue anyway with giving a whole "mile" of quality of life improvements to free players, never-mind an "inch".

Bingo.

So, when an "inch" is given and people continue to complain/leave you wouldn't justify more "inches" with the same reasoning?

It's rather impossible to eliminate such losses. But they can be mitigated. The only question is how much to sacrifice for such mitigation.

Heh. I recall one person ragequitting back around January complaining he only made 70k a year and couldn't afford the store prices. It's a shame he got his thread modded into deletion. It had many good laughs.

Yes, some people.
There are also many people who are quite willing to be satisfied, but who get turned away from the game early one by issues they find upsetting.

There isn't a dichotomy between people who are immediately satisfied and those who will never be.

I never said it wasn't.
The issue isn't how open the game is, but how open people feel the game is.

Again, I'm not saying these people are right, just that they're getting put off, and have money.

It would depend one each "inch" in question.

Some would be justifiable, others not.
If someone leaves because they can't get absolutely everything for free instantly, then just let them leave.
If someone leaves because the first two characters they unlocked were their Mastermind and Controller, and they were never given a warning screen that the characters couldn't be played without paying more, then that's something that should be fixed.

When you make the changes to satisfy those could-be-satisfied-if people, you move a group of people who were more unsatisfied into a could-be-satisfied-if position. That group will ALWAYS exist. You cannot satisfy everyone.

Worse than that, you could create a new group of were-satisfied-until people with such changes.

That doesn't mean you should be automatically satisfied with the number you have already satisfied and never seek to satisfy any more.

Yeah, because everyone hates greater proliferation of information and appropriate warning screens...

Presumably the devs have enough data to figure out which "issues" are genuine and which are the product of inflamed entitlement glands. They certainly have vastly more info than we do.

They've done an excellent job thus far.

The devs have no control over what individuals "feel".
All they can do is make the most open game they're able, trusting that enough of their players are rational adults to grasp that reality.


So you're arguing about a meaningless non-issue just for kicks?
Nice.

Conversely, you shouldn't automatically make changes just to satisfy a few people.

I didn't mention any specific changes. I would say that those are changes that probably wouldn't move the pay-line. I would say the same about making slotted IOs act as basic enhancements (no set bonuses, special IO bonuses, or procs) for Premiums without access to IOs.

That's pretty presumptuous.
The devs are human beings, not infallible.
There are undoubtedly many decisions they would have done differently with hindsight. This may well be one of them.

Edit:
Further, what information could they data-mine to work out how big an issue this is? People who come back once and leave again, there's going to be hundreds of them, even if all issues are resolved. There's absolutely no way to pick out which ones leave because of IO issues, unless they explicitly say so, which most won't.

What?
Of course they do.

Presentation is a hugely important factor in people's willingness of buy into a product. Which basically comes down to "how people feel".

No. I'm arguing a monetary issue which, for a business, is far far more meaningful than "whose the entitled one?".

No, you shouldn't, you should do it on a case by case basis.

Going by the forums, and responses I've gotten on sites other than this one, this is single biggest issue that people coming back to Freedom have had.
There is no evidence as to if it will change the pay-line or not, but if anything's going to be done, this should be the first port of call.

Freemium delivers a surprisingly full featured game experience.
The people I see complaining about it aren't raising valid issues for the most part, but simply whining about what they feel entitled to for their $0 a month.

Ergo, I feel the devs have chosen an excellent spot to build the 'fence' between VIP and free and trust them to maintain it with an eye toward customer satisfaction. Or rather, an eye toward the satisfaction of their rational customers.

They aren't going to un-gate IO use, so it's a moot point.
They built the fence there, quite reasonably as the game still plays just fine with SOs. All your powers work, and work well, you're just missing that extra layer of complexity.

It's like they're giving away free ice cream cones, but if you want them dipped in chocolate you still gotta pay.

I'm going to find anyone complaining about getting FREE ICE CREAM unreasonable, however amazingly delicious the chocolate dip is.


Whining that a free game doesn't let you use certain premium systems (IOs in this case) isn't their problem, it's a player entitlement issue.

They've made the free game as open and full featured as they feel they can without undermining subscriber incentives. I don't see any improvement to be made short of making your VIP players ask "hey, what exactly am I PAYING for here?"

As noted, some people are going to whine about whatever you do.
They gave away TOTALLY FREE STUFF on the marketplace and got pages and pages of whining about it for their troubles.

Want IOs?
Pay.

Don't like that?
Oh well!

The game is demonstrably doing better financially than it ever has.
The danger of free players "quitting" over not being getting IO access seems a tad, ah, overblown.


See above.

As they're raking in money hand over fist with the current system, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for it to be liberalized.

Clearly your sources of information are far beyond the data collection capabilities of NCSoft!

You keep saying this. Are you suggesting that on an individual basis people should have VIP services unlocked for them and them alone? If so what criteria would the devs use?