Renames: Why so expensive?


Android_5Point9

 

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Originally Posted by Captain-Electric View Post
THAT cat is going to need a... CAT SCAN!


 

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Originally Posted by VoodooGirl View Post


 

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Originally Posted by VoodooGirl View Post
Everything you do requires data. Your character data, bios, costumes, power choices, blah blah blah. It all requires data and data requires storage.

Data storage is expensive. Believe it or not, it is. I have family members that do data warehousing for companies.
What a completely absurd argument. The cost of data storage has nothing to do with this. A name change isn't ADDING data, it's changing one piece of data. If the process is automated (my god, I certainly hope it is), then the actual cost is negligible.

At any rate, it's clear NCSoft doesn't want people changing their names frivolously. Why? I dunno.


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Yeah I have to also disagree with VoodooGirl for once. We are probably talking somewhere around 64 bytes of data - that's bytes, not even kb. It's probably a combination of a money grab and anti-griefing. It's as simple as that.

I too think $5 would be more reasonable, or even less.


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VIPs get a free rename every two months. nbd


 

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To my mind, the rename and server transfer costs are a relic of the *** backwards pricing model the game used before pricing was considered to be a "thing." Want something? $10. Want something else? $10. Want anything at all other than your subscription? $10. Doesn't matter what it is, that's what it costs. In a time before microtransactions where people actually sat down and considered pricing, marketability and advertisement, everything had the same cost.

Paragon Studios had to learn the hard way that "consumables" which cost too much do not get purchased. They started off trying to maintain their old model of "everything is expensive" and found out that consumables, especially fairly minor ones, did not sell well.

Character renames are a consumable. To my eyes, the only reason they haven't been reduced in price is there's almost no demand for them, so no-one has bothered to sit down and work on an alternate pricing model. The system is no longer manual, as evidenced by the fact that it's instantaneous despite the messages warning it might take time. Price it lower and people will buy it. Price it at $10, though, and people will figure they can live with a misspelled name or, you know, do the "ghetto rename" transfer trick since server transfers were seen as SO worthless subscribers get them in our junk mail.

I think Steam has proved that high prices don't always generate the most revenue. On the contrary, they've shown that LOW costs generate considerably more. It may be time to re-examine the prices of renames and transfers.


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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
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Originally Posted by Xzero45 View Post
VIPs get a free rename every two months. nbd
Well, I'm a VIP and have never noticed this. Have I been missing mine?


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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha View Post
Well, I'm a VIP and have never noticed this. Have I been missing mine?
under the old vet rewards you did, and respec tokens, not seen any renames with VIP.


 

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Originally Posted by Android_5Point9 View Post
Could always burn 2 server transfer tokens to switch names.

- Take Bob, and pick a destination server.
- Make sure the name Bob is taken on the destination server.
- If the name Bob isn't taken, make a character with that name on the destination server. Alternatively, check a different server to see if it's taken there.
- Transfer Bob, get prompted for a rename.
- Re-name Bob something that you like that isn't taken on your original server.
- Transfer the re-named Bob back to the original server.

Not exactly efficient, but I rarely use those transfer tokens anyway.
I do it the other way around.

I move the character I want to rename over to a different server and create a character with it's original name on the server I want it on. Then I transfer the original back and get to rename it because the name is taken now.

Serves a dual purpose.

1) I get to rename my character.

2) If I still like and want to reuse the original name, it's already placeheld in case I don't get back to it immediately.


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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

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Also, the cost of the renames is probably on the high side to discourage people from continually renaming characters that have been genericed.

Iron Man has been genericed. If renames were $1 a lot of people might take their genericed character and name him I'ron Man, then Ir'on Man, then Iro'n Man, etc.

Making renames expensive probably goes a long way toward cutting down how many times a GM has to keep genericing the same character. Spending $10 to get around a GM's decision is a lot more daunting than spending $1.


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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

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One thing I thought of that's not considered by the "it's only data" people is to remember we're dealing with a software system created a decade or so ago. I imagine it originally had to do with the character's name being the database key for the character record. When you change keys, the database recalculation and replication is affected. Especially when you factor in cached data and server farms. Changing data is simple, but not always without implications or impact.

--NT


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Originally Posted by NuclearToast View Post
One thing I thought of that's not considered by the "it's only data" people is to remember we're dealing with a software system created a decade or so ago. I imagine it originally had to do with the character's name being the database key for the character record. When you change keys, the database recalculation and replication is affected. Especially when you factor in cached data and server farms. Changing data is simple, but not always without implications or impact.

--NT
It would be interesting to see the breakdown for cost people try to factor in with these kinds of arguments. Create a script that is proven to work, and there is no longer additional costs.


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Originally Posted by JayboH View Post
It would be interesting to see the breakdown for cost people try to factor in with these kinds of arguments. Create a script that is proven to work, and there is no longer additional costs.
As someone who works at an online gaming provider, I can tell you that people hold their breaths every night when these scripts run. Edge cases and database deadlocks at just the wrong time can spawn cascading failures, even in scripts that run fine on a regular basis. The Job Failure alert causes a weary DBA to request the step/line number of the failure, and the diagnosis/cleanup begins...

--NT


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Originally Posted by NuclearToast View Post
As someone who works at an online gaming provider, I can tell you that people hold their breaths every night when these scripts run. Edge cases and database deadlocks at just the wrong time can spawn cascading failures, even in scripts that run fine on a regular basis. The Job Failure alert causes a weary DBA to request the step/line number of the failure, and the diagnosis/cleanup begins...

--NT
That's exactly why I wrote it the way I did:

"Create a script that is proven to work, and there is no longer additional costs."


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That's the point JayboH, there isn't a guaranteed way to prove it will work 100% of the time. It's like saying write bug free code. Hence the holding of the breath. You just need a drive to time out or a function fail without an error code or one you didn't expect. If the DB was offline I would have a bit more confidence but nobody is going to want to pay for a rename today if it's going to take affect during Thursday downtime.


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Originally Posted by JayboH View Post
The code is already there and it is working, so I don't get your point at all.
Because it doesn't work 100% of the time. Which is why the DBA is on-call for when it doesn't. Huge complicated systems aren't as simple as some people tend to assume they are. When things go wrong, and they always do, it takes time and effort to bring them back to "right".

--NT


They all laughed at me when I said I wanted to be a comedian.
But I showed them, and nobody's laughing at me now!

If I became a red name, I would be all "and what would you mere mortals like to entertain me with today, mu hu ha ha ha!" ~Arcanaville

 

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That isn't exclusive to the topic we are discussing - the DBA needs to be on-call even if renaming wasn't even an option in this game.


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Originally Posted by NuclearToast View Post
Because it doesn't work 100% of the time. Which is why the DBA is on-call for when it doesn't. Huge complicated systems aren't as simple as some people tend to assume they are. When things go wrong, and they always do, it takes time and effort to bring them back to "right".

--NT
As one of those people that lost more than one weekend to repairing the damage caused by a "routine, well-tested, otherwise-stable maintenance script (that I did not write)" encountering a series of events that causes it to do evil, evil things to several hundred databases at once, I can back up this claim.

Now, if anyone can explain why said scripts always do this between 4:45 and 5:00pm on a Friday evening-- even when they're not scheduled to run then-- and never EVER do it right before marathon meetings I'd really LOVE to avoid (when I might sometimes perhaps intentionally-schedule them to run), I'd greatly appreciate it.


 

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Originally Posted by NuclearToast View Post
One thing I thought of that's not considered by the "it's only data" people is to remember we're dealing with a software system created a decade or so ago. I imagine it originally had to do with the character's name being the database key for the character record.
I can only hope they weren't stupid enough to make a field that is expected to have changes the record key. Even before renames existed, characters were having their names generic'ed.


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Originally Posted by NuclearToast View Post
One thing I thought of that's not considered by the "it's only data" people is to remember we're dealing with a software system created a decade or so ago. I imagine it originally had to do with the character's name being the database key for the character record. When you change keys, the database recalculation and replication is affected. Especially when you factor in cached data and server farms. Changing data is simple, but not always without implications or impact.
Once upon a time, we were told that server transfers and renames were done manually. I can't confirm that this was ever the case, but this dates back to the original "Test Server character transfer tool," which took hours, sometimes days to transfer characters over and had the habit of just breaking down whenever if felt we didn't hug it enough. Even if it was a manual process at one point, it's been automated ever since the services came into being. I believe it was actually said that this was released as a paid-for feature exactly because they found an automated way to accomplish it.

What I'm saying is I don't think this is a mechanical limitation that makes server transfers and character renames so expensive. We've never gotten any comments to this effect and I've never heard of those failing. No developer has ever commented on their pricing, leading me to believe said pricing is a result of an unreviewed legacy decision. Transfers and Renames were priced at $10 when everything at all was priced at $10, and when Freedom came out, they simply recalculated that into Paragon Points and left it at that. I really don't think technical considerations were ever a question.

Here's my reasoning for this: When Freedom was being tested, the team did a LOT of things to reduce server load and save resources. The low-level game was robbed of instances to reduce instance clutter from abandoned lowbies, Masterminds and Controllers were locked for Free accounts to limit their numbers and so forth. They told us about pretty much every decision they'd made to limit the game in order to cover the overhead of Free players without having to tax paying players more for it. Renames and Server Transfers never came up in those talks, not even as an off-hand mention. I'm not saying they're safe or easy or fool-proof, I'm just we really have no official evidence for it.


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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

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Except with the test server if something goes terribly wrong, wiping the player database is now a viable option as well as the reduced consequences of a database rollback (restoring an old working copy). It's the test server, they've told us time and time again don't expect any sort of permanence.


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Originally Posted by Ironblade View Post
I can only hope they weren't stupid enough to make a field that is expected to have changes the record key. Even before renames existed, characters were having their names generic'ed.
I'm not sure that the people that originally designed the database system took into account that names might have to be Generic'd. That seemed to be a bit of an afterthought that they came across during Beta or shortly before Beta, but long after they'd designed the database.

Yeah, stupid decision, but many things were in the early days just from lack of foresight and experience.


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