Revamping the "Old to New"


Adeon Hawkwood

 

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Originally Posted by Halon View Post
And would it kill them to do a Scrapper version?
It wouldn't kill them but it would kill Super Strength.



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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane View Post
It wouldn't kill them but it would kill Super Strength.



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Honestly if they did even port and change SS I can't see them leaving it any less than a top tier set. Losing the reliance on Rage and dropping the crash would probably improve the set for all but farmers.


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Originally Posted by EmperorSteele View Post
I think Mind Control could use a buff. It's not a bad set, but ask someone to list the best 5 control sets, and Mind will NEVER make the list.
I would say Mind Control is in the top five control sets.


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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
I would say Mind Control is in the top five control sets.
That's because Confuse is the BEST MEZ.


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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
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Posted

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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
I would say Mind Control is in the top five control sets.
Well, considering that there are only 9 control sets total, being in the top 5 isn't a huge achievement. It just means it's not in the bottom half of the list. I would agree with what someone else said, really Fire, Plant, and Illusion are the best, after that it gets a bit more confusing. Personally I would put Mind in the top 5 as well. But it is still a bit lacking here and there, though it is some tricks. However if any control set gets a revamp next, I would say Ice needs something.


 

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Originally Posted by Vysires View Post
Well, considering that there are only 9 control sets total, being in the top 5 isn't a huge achievement. It just means it's not in the bottom half of the list. I would agree with what someone else said, really Fire, Plant, and Illusion are the best, after that it gets a bit more confusing. Personally I would put Mind in the top 5 as well. But it is still a bit lacking here and there, though it is some tricks. However if any control set gets a revamp next, I would say Ice needs something.

Kind of depends on how you choose to rank. Fire/Plant/Illusion are certainly tops for damage but if you rank based on control the waters are murkier and fire definitely doesn't deserve to top the list. Earth/electric/dark can all leverage as much or more control than the sets mentioned they just do less damage.


 

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So many great suggestions by so many great people.

The only thing I can think to add? Crashless nukes for all! The crash is an archaic mechanic initially thought up when the level cap was 40, correct? This is a different game now. Why not let Blasters/Defenders/Corrupters go in and clear a room every couple minutes without and endurance crash?


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Originally Posted by Psymate_Dayton View Post
So many great suggestions by so many great people.

The only thing I can think to add? Crashless nukes for all! The crash is an archaic mechanic initially thought up when the level cap was 40, correct? This is a different game now. Why not let Blasters/Defenders/Corrupters go in and clear a room every couple minutes without and endurance crash?
My 6th sense tells me that is going to change soon.

The same sense tells me that I will be waiting a long time for Energy Melee on scrappers because new sets sell better than proliferation


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Posted

The only sets I have played through all their powers enough to have an opinion are Electric Blast (which underwhelms me, but I only use it on a Defender), Storm Summoning, Earth Control, Earth Assault, Plant Control and Time Manipulation...and I like them all. It's probably why I got as far as I did.

Someone earlier mentioned QoL changes for Storm which sounds neat, but I'm not at all sure what form that would take. I'm used to the set as-is and aside from Gale being mandatory for people using it as a secondary, I'm not sure what it really needs. It's a quirky and sophisticated set, aggressive and dynamic. It's harder to get great mileage out of that set than most unless you really throw yourself into it and are willing to ruffle some feathers as you learn it. But I see that as a feature of the set: that it is hard to use, but very rewarding once you get it right.

I just want Electric Blast to sound less like a grade school science project and more like thunder.


- Ashley
[Rocker Girl (Earth/Earth Dom); Sweet Venom (Plant/Time Ctrl)]

 

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Pretty sure this won't be a popular option, but I'm of a mind that some power sets should be retired for some ATs. Best example: you can be a Martial Arts/Super Reflexes Scrapper, or a Super Reflexes/Martial Arts Tanker, or a Martial Arts/Super Reflexes Stalker. It's possible to argue that Scrapper and Stalker are largely superfluous (have one AT that focuses on damage and another that focuses on defense) and thus at least part of the combo should be retired for one of the two damage-based ATs, or conversely that the combo makes more sense for Scrappers/Stalkers, but less sense for Tankers (really, a flippy, superfast, ninja brick?).

Some power set proliferation and duplication made sense when CoH and CoV were largely two different games, but now that the games are almost wholly integrated with one another, the duplication of power sets just seems like laziness in some ways. This could also help with the perception of certain ATs as sub-optimal -- part of the reason that Blasters are considered underpowered is that they have basically the same primary sets as Corruptors, but the Corruptor interacts with them in different ways which are considered more entertaining. Replacing some of the more damaging Corruptor power sets with less overtly powerful but more flavorful new power sets which better fit the Corruptor 'theme' should also help the perception of the Blaster AT.

Reducing the number of places where you see the same power set available on a different AT should make that powerset seem less 'old', since you're not seeing it every time you decide to roll up a new toon.

--
Pauper


 

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Originally Posted by Pauper View Post
Pretty sure this won't be a popular option, but I'm of a mind that some power sets should be retired for some ATs. Best example: you can be a Martial Arts/Super Reflexes Scrapper, or a Super Reflexes/Martial Arts Tanker, or a Martial Arts/Super Reflexes Stalker. It's possible to argue that Scrapper and Stalker are largely superfluous (have one AT that focuses on damage and another that focuses on defense) and thus at least part of the combo should be retired for one of the two damage-based ATs, or conversely that the combo makes more sense for Scrappers/Stalkers, but less sense for Tankers (really, a flippy, superfast, ninja brick?).

Some power set proliferation and duplication made sense when CoH and CoV were largely two different games, but now that the games are almost wholly integrated with one another, the duplication of power sets just seems like laziness in some ways. This could also help with the perception of certain ATs as sub-optimal -- part of the reason that Blasters are considered underpowered is that they have basically the same primary sets as Corruptors, but the Corruptor interacts with them in different ways which are considered more entertaining. Replacing some of the more damaging Corruptor power sets with less overtly powerful but more flavorful new power sets which better fit the Corruptor 'theme' should also help the perception of the Blaster AT.

Reducing the number of places where you see the same power set available on a different AT should make that powerset seem less 'old', since you're not seeing it every time you decide to roll up a new toon.

--
Pauper
I ... err ... well the thing is ...

You might want to duck now.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pauper View Post
Pretty sure this won't be a popular option, but I'm of a mind that some power sets should be retired for some ATs. Best example: you can be a Martial Arts/Super Reflexes Scrapper, or a Super Reflexes/Martial Arts Tanker, or a Martial Arts/Super Reflexes Stalker. It's possible to argue that Scrapper and Stalker are largely superfluous (have one AT that focuses on damage and another that focuses on defense) and thus at least part of the combo should be retired for one of the two damage-based ATs, or conversely that the combo makes more sense for Scrappers/Stalkers, but less sense for Tankers (really, a flippy, superfast, ninja brick?).

Some power set proliferation and duplication made sense when CoH and CoV were largely two different games, but now that the games are almost wholly integrated with one another, the duplication of power sets just seems like laziness in some ways. This could also help with the perception of certain ATs as sub-optimal -- part of the reason that Blasters are considered underpowered is that they have basically the same primary sets as Corruptors, but the Corruptor interacts with them in different ways which are considered more entertaining. Replacing some of the more damaging Corruptor power sets with less overtly powerful but more flavorful new power sets which better fit the Corruptor 'theme' should also help the perception of the Blaster AT.

Reducing the number of places where you see the same power set available on a different AT should make that powerset seem less 'old', since you're not seeing it every time you decide to roll up a new toon.

--
Pauper


Trickshooter's Characters | @Trickshooter @Brightside

 

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Originally Posted by _Hush_ View Post
What powersets would you like to see revamped within the future?
Ideally, all of them that have gone a substantial time without a dev checkup.

Personally I'd love someone to fix /devices.


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Posted

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Originally Posted by Psymate_Dayton View Post
So many great suggestions by so many great people.

The only thing I can think to add? Crashless nukes for all! The crash is an archaic mechanic initially thought up when the level cap was 40, correct? This is a different game now. Why not let Blasters/Defenders/Corrupters go in and clear a room every couple minutes without and endurance crash?
back when there were no target caps the crash made some sense


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pauper View Post
Pretty sure this won't be a popular option, but I'm of a mind that some power sets should be retired for some ATs. Best example: you can be a Martial Arts/Super Reflexes Scrapper, or a Super Reflexes/Martial Arts Tanker, or a Martial Arts/Super Reflexes Stalker. It's possible to argue that Scrapper and Stalker are largely superfluous (have one AT that focuses on damage and another that focuses on defense) and thus at least part of the combo should be retired for one of the two damage-based ATs, or conversely that the combo makes more sense for Scrappers/Stalkers, but less sense for Tankers (really, a flippy, superfast, ninja brick?).

Some power set proliferation and duplication made sense when CoH and CoV were largely two different games, but now that the games are almost wholly integrated with one another, the duplication of power sets just seems like laziness in some ways. This could also help with the perception of certain ATs as sub-optimal -- part of the reason that Blasters are considered underpowered is that they have basically the same primary sets as Corruptors, but the Corruptor interacts with them in different ways which are considered more entertaining. Replacing some of the more damaging Corruptor power sets with less overtly powerful but more flavorful new power sets which better fit the Corruptor 'theme' should also help the perception of the Blaster AT.

Reducing the number of places where you see the same power set available on a different AT should make that powerset seem less 'old', since you're not seeing it every time you decide to roll up a new toon.

--
Pauper
You're right, that is going to be an unpopular opinion!


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pauper View Post
Pretty sure this won't be a popular option, but I'm of a mind that some power sets should be retired for some ATs. Best example: you can be a Martial Arts/Super Reflexes Scrapper, or a Super Reflexes/Martial Arts Tanker, or a Martial Arts/Super Reflexes Stalker. It's possible to argue that Scrapper and Stalker are largely superfluous (have one AT that focuses on damage and another that focuses on defense) and thus at least part of the combo should be retired for one of the two damage-based ATs, or conversely that the combo makes more sense for Scrappers/Stalkers, but less sense for Tankers (really, a flippy, superfast, ninja brick?).

Some power set proliferation and duplication made sense when CoH and CoV were largely two different games, but now that the games are almost wholly integrated with one another, the duplication of power sets just seems like laziness in some ways. This could also help with the perception of certain ATs as sub-optimal -- part of the reason that Blasters are considered underpowered is that they have basically the same primary sets as Corruptors, but the Corruptor interacts with them in different ways which are considered more entertaining. Replacing some of the more damaging Corruptor power sets with less overtly powerful but more flavorful new power sets which better fit the Corruptor 'theme' should also help the perception of the Blaster AT.

Reducing the number of places where you see the same power set available on a different AT should make that powerset seem less 'old', since you're not seeing it every time you decide to roll up a new toon.

--
Pauper
I think I read this as you want people to play certain AT's because they are the only ones that get certain powers, rather than because the AT itself is fun?

I don't think this is a great road to be going down at this stage in development. Originally sets weren't as proliferated as they are now and it made sense when the game was new so people experienced everything, but I think with a game this old almost everyone currently playing will be a veteran of some sort and will want more choice not less.


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Posted

I would like to remove the 'Total Focus' animation where ever it exists. Not sure if that counts as a revamp.


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Posted

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Originally Posted by EvilGeko View Post
I would like to remove the 'Total Focus' animation where ever it exists. Not sure if that counts as a revamp.
I quite like it actually (Not on TF however), on a fast moving toon it feels like you are going into bullet time.

Though I wouldn't complain about a faster animation of course lol.


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Posted

Not in any particular order:

Most of the Blaster Secondaries especially Ice Patch from /Ice. The long animation makes it a horrid power in an otherwise good set.

Stone Armor. I'd like the animations changed so not every Stone character looks the same under Granite. I'd like the set reworked so players didn't feel obligated to respec into Granite and out of their other Armors. I'd like to take a movement power other than Teleport...

Dual Pistols. Needs faster animations and more damage.

Hand Clap needs a toggle to turn KB on or off as the player wishes it. Or make two versions of the power.

Remove the STUPID animation from Jump Kick. Make it worth taking as an attack.

Make Super Reflexes less slot and End heavy.

Change the 'Breakdance' animation from Staff PLEASE.


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Hi everyone , I'm surprised this thread is still going. The purpose for me starting this thread was because the Energy Aura revamp was so great that I would hope they do that older powers. That set slowly got recived minor changes then later a complete overhaul and now look it at people now put energy aura among top sets to play. Now am I not saying it was bad set prior no, but it sure took someone with patience and experience to fully comprehend the mechanics of the set from the start of CoV. Also Gravity Control comes to mind as well almost forgot hah. With new powersets constantly being distrubed I think the old ones are being "forgotten" because the newer ones are just that good some that come to mind Time manipulation, Street justice, Titant Weapons.. etc

I think it would be great maybe if say a poll was presented here on the boards or at a player summit with selection of powers and have everyone cast their votes on some power choices then post the results later.

Back to my OP me personally a few sets come to mind


1) Energy Melee
2) Majority of the blaster secondaries
3) Super Reflexes
4) Martial Arts

Everyone's suggestions have been great thus far please keep them coming!


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Hush_ View Post
Also Gravity Control comes to mind as well almost forgot hah.
I could do without them revamping sets like they did with Gravity actually. The toggle phase power really annoys the life out of me, at least before people just skipped it and the game was better off.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by EmperorSteele View Post
I think Mind Control could use a buff. It's not a bad set, but ask someone to list the best 5 control sets, and Mind will NEVER make the list.

Erm, what?

Mind Control is absolutely over the top heinously broken on Dominators (I've recently duoed Lord Recluse's Strike Force, Master Tin Mage, Lady Grey Task Force and Imperious Task Force with my Mind/Fire and friend's Mind/Psi), Mass Confusion is probably one of the best Tier 9s on Controllers out there. Instant aggro release, softening up of mobs AND you can follow up to avoid XP loss. TK is great in Minds of Mayhem, the AoE Sleep is fantastic as another soft aggro relief tool, Levitate is a nice damage tool, Dominate good...there is not a lot wrong with this set and call me crazy, but my Mind/Cold crushes most content and both her and my Mind/Bubbles make Master runs trivial. On Dominators it gets even sillier.

Buff/Examine:

Stone Armor - It's a relic now with Willpower around
Force Fields - Add that Ablative HP mechanic to the shields
Ice Melee - This set could be...better. Replace the aoe Sleep with something else at the very least.

Be wary of buffing:

Regeneration: Again, it's a fine set. One of its pluses is its reliance on the player actually being awake instead of facerolling across a keyboard. It's quite powerful with Invention Origins and decent to good without. Remember that players can and do dip into power pools...

Trick Arrow: Has a great array of tools. -Regen might be the biggest hole (in EMP Arrow iirc though), maybe make the debuff durations a bit longer.


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Originally Posted by Neuronia View Post
Erm, what?

Mind Control is absolutely over the top heinously broken on Dominators
I think that only counts on IO'd doms stacking confuse.

With SO slotting I don't think Mind is very good at all, is a 1 trick pony, and does very low (If any) damage compared to the other sets.


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