What I dislike the most
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2012-06-12 15:26 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Yes we will because I define creative as being faced with a problem...and overcoming that problem with whatever tools you have available to you.|
Originally Posted by Traska
Then we're going to have to disagree. Because opening up thesaurus.com and using the first word you see isn't creative, it's just applied problem-solving.
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Defeatism=/=Creative
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
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Sorry but Green Lantern isn't an individual name it's a job title, like Detective, Senator, Governer, Fire Marshal, Federal Agent, etc.|
Originally Posted by Traska
Hal Jordan, Guy Gardner, John Stewart, Kyle Rayner. All known as Green Lantern, all on one world.
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| Jay Garrick, Barry Allen and/or Wally West and/or Bart Allen (At leastBarry and Wally together at the same time), all known simply as Flash, all on one world. |
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| Bruce Wayne, Richard Grayson. Both known at the same time as Batman. |
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The Eradicator, Hank Henshaw, Conner Kent (at the very beginning), all calling themself Superman at the same time. And that's just core Justice Leaguers. |
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Wow.|
Originally Posted by Traska
Again, word salad =/= creativity. Using a thesaurus =/= creativity. Google Translate =/= creativity. There is nothing at all creative about calling the Blue Beetle the "Azure Scarab". There is nothing creative about calling Iron Man "The Awesome Armored Avenger". There is nothing creative about calling The Tick "Le Cocher". And there's nothing creative about tearing down a perfectly good character concept just to choose a name that doesn't fit. Many of my characters are easy to fit with the current name system. But many are not.
What royally peeves me is when my argument for a different naming system gets boiled down repeatedly to the ad hominem of "you lack originality and creativity". Claiming that because my creativity springs from a different direction than your means I have no creativity is the height of elitism, and does nothing to help the discussion. Which is convenient, since it allows you to off-handedly dismiss the discussion. |
That's not what I said at all.
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It also happens to be their code name. It's the title of the comic, it's what they're called by the Justice League, it's what everyone on Earth knows them as. It wasn't Alan Scott's job title, it was his code name.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Sorry but Green Lantern isn't an individual name it's a job title, like Detective, Senator, Governer, Fire Marshal, Federal Agent, etc.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
And two of those guys were sidekick proteges as Kid Flash before grew up to continue the Flash tradition.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Are you referring to the storylines where Grayson stepped in to pose as Batman when Bruce was presumed dead? Sorry that doesn't count as two separate Batmans. Are you going to try to use the times Superman posed as Batman next?
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Are you referring to the "Reign of Superman" storyline where several imposters tried claiming they were each "superman" after "Funeral For A Friend"? Again doesn't count cuz everyone knew they were imposters, and the real Superman eventually returned from the dead.
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The first time the topic of global naming really came up, I proposed a solution similar to one proposed in this thread: all characters invisibility are called charactername@globalname or similar system. First person to select charactername gets to optionally drop the @globalname in all visible circumstances. Everyone else must non-optionally use the suffix.
I spent the entire thread mostly defending why the singular option even needed to exist, and what character flaws it implies to believe it ought to exist.
I've concluded that as I'm fine with the status quo, and no on has yet produced a strong enough argument to challenge the status quo, there's no specific benefit to me to attempt to convince anyone that any particular course of action would be reasonable, when no action at all is currently being contemplated.
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See... I have no issue with the status quo. I find the challenge of finding a name opens me up creatively instead of stifling me or my characters. I have yet to see a REASON why a new naming system is NEEDED.... There are millions of possibilities for names out there..whether they are desired or good names is a matter of subjective opinion. One man's trash is another man's treasure.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
The first time the topic of global naming really came up, I proposed a solution similar to one proposed in this thread: all characters invisibility are called charactername@globalname or similar system. First person to select charactername gets to optionally drop the @globalname in all visible circumstances. Everyone else must non-optionally use the suffix.
I spent the entire thread mostly defending why the singular option even needed to exist, and what character flaws it implies to believe it ought to exist. I've concluded that as I'm fine with the status quo, and no on has yet produced a strong enough argument to challenge the status quo, there's no specific benefit to me to attempt to convince anyone that any particular course of action would be reasonable, when no action at all is currently being contemplated. |
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
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Got Cosmic Smash today. Was pretty happy about that. That sounds plenty comic-booky to me. Just wanted to share.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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It's not just a limitation. The advantage is that, when you do come up with a name, the name is uniquely yours on that server. The question that's entirely subjective and at the core of the issue is whether the hassle of having to come up with an unused name is worth having that name, with no modifiers, be yours alone once you do. Personally I think it is, though having names become available again after a year of unpaid inactivity isn't a bad idea (if something like that doesn't happen already).
| I will say though, there are creative limitations with our current system and pretending they're not limitations doesn't make it true. It's not all about creativity, but if one willingly accepts the game's limitations or at least tolerate them. |
"Now, I'm not saying this guy at Microsoft sees gamers as a bunch of rats in a Skinner box. I'm just saying that he illustrates his theory of game design using pictures of rats in a Skinner box."
For the record, if we're really going to categorize this side of the argument as a temper tantrum, then the other side can easily be similarly mislabeled as a greedy child clutching toys to his chest and screaming "MINE!"
If we really want to cross that line, that is. It's a pity, I asked upthread if we could have just one of these conversations without the pro-status-quo side resorting to attacks. Apparently, it *is* too much to ask.
To those of you who are on the pro-status-quo side who are not behaving in such a shameful manner, please know that I am not speaking about you.
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Sounds like an anime attack name.
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Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Got Cosmic Smash today. Was pretty happy about that. That sounds plenty comic-booky to me. Just wanted to share.
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The problem is that unpaid inactivity used to mean someone who didn't have an active account. There is no such thing as an inactive account now, and so it's likely the concept of name purges is, if not gone, at least scaled down considerably.
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Originally Posted by Sparkly Soldier
It's not just a limitation. The advantage is that, when you do come up with a name, the name is uniquely yours on that server. The question that's entirely subjective and at the core of the issue is whether the hassle of having to come up with an unused name is worth having that name, with no modifiers, be yours alone once you do. Personally I think it is, though having names become available again after a year of unpaid inactivity isn't a bad idea (if something like that doesn't happen already).
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I'd define it as both not being VIP and not logging into the account. If someone's paying the subscription fee it's not really fair to take away their lesser-used characters' names, and if they're free but logging in, same goes. But if it's been a year and the account's apparently abandoned, the names could go up for grabs again. I'm on the status quo side, but I do agree that unused names shouldn't keep piling up forever.
| The problem is that unpaid inactivity used to mean someone who didn't have an active account. There is no such thing as an inactive account now, and so it's likely the concept of name purges is, if not gone, at least scaled down considerably. |
"Now, I'm not saying this guy at Microsoft sees gamers as a bunch of rats in a Skinner box. I'm just saying that he illustrates his theory of game design using pictures of rats in a Skinner box."
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Originally Posted by Schismatrix
As i recall they're generally called something more than just Superman or Flash or Batman when there's more than one unless they're deliberately trying to obfuscate who is actually using the name at any given time. Also, in most cases they're actually from or on different Earths when using the same name. Almost like the names were being used on different... shards? servers? dimensions? On the same world at the same time they tend to have other adjectives/identifiers added or be called something else while on the world (server?): Red Superman, Blue Superman, Cyborg Superman, Green Lantern (Earth), Kilowog (Green Lantern Alien). Probably because it would otherwise become incredibly confusing in very short order. Something that is occasionally played with for the sake of drama or humor when more than one character uses the same name...
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Actually no.
You've got the The Flash (Jay Garrick), The Flash (Wally West), The Flash (Barry Allen).
And The Green Lantern (Alan Scot), The Green Lantern (hal Jordan), The Green Lantern(Guy Gardener), The Green Lantern (john Stewart), The Green Lantern(Kyle Rainer).
Recently we had Batman (Bruce Wayne), Batman (Dick Greyson) and Batman (Jason Todd).
Recently we've also had Superman (Clark Kent) and Superman (Clark Kent from Kingdom Come)
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
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No common ground?? Hmm let's see:|
Originally Posted by Moonlighter
The issue here is this; if you are willing to accept "I Burnt the Toast" as the name of your main that's cool but we don't really have any common ground on which to discuss naming conventions.
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We play the same game
We both have to think about names that fit the theme of our character
We both have limitations placed on those names
Seems like we have a pretty common ground to me.
Just because my current toons are named as sentences does not mean I have not had other toons. My change to sentence names was within the past year before that I had:
StormScorch
Fixxer Upper
Fruity Tootie
Bubblelicious
Control Phreak
Maiden Taiwan
Your ExGirlfriend
Maiden Hades
Nex Dea
Belle Bataille
Spectral Lemonaid
BurntFrost
Frosty Treats
Tricky Trick
Terrable
Ima Screamer
Just to name a few of the hundreds - by the way feel free to take any of these as I have deleted all of those toons around a year ago - so they may still be available.
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
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1. People are not attacking YOU. They are attacking your idea.
2. There are three parts to the Ad Hominem fallacy: The only part that has happened is that you have made a claim. No one has refuted your claim by stating an irrelevant fact about you; thus using that irrelevant fact to dispute your claim. What has happened is that people have stated you have made the same argument over and over. What has happened is that you have not shown a reason aside from personal greed on why a change like this is needed. What has happened is you have failed to justify the change as something needed for the majority of the population. What has happened is that you have taken on the victim role because others have attacked your logic and inability to reason.
3. You have stated this is not an issue of Creativity, but you have failed to negate this assertion with any use of the commonly used terms and application of the word.
cre·a·tive [kree-ey-tiv] Show IPA
adjective
1.
having the quality or power of creating.
2.
resulting from originality of thought, expression, etc.; imaginative: creative writing.
The current system is based on using creativity. What you are proposing is the exact opposite of creative. You are proposing a plan which would in fact take away one's ability to be an individual...this is NOT creative. Your attitude is not about creativity it is about defeatism. Defeatism is the exact opposite of creativity as it is giving up...not looking for alternatives..not being imaginative.
You can claim all you want there are no "good" names left, but this is a subjective opinion...one which many people disagree with. Names are themselves a product of creativity and as such are purely subjective...as is all creative forms... think art and music.
If you are going to suggest something...only to get mad when others differ from you..and then claim you are being attacked personally...and use this to "sway" opinion... you are utilizing a fallacy yourself: The Victim Fallacy.
Personally... I find when a discussion falls into the whole "fallacies" area... it is over. Everything that can be said has been said. We can agree to disagree. And I will continue to disagree with a change from the current naming system until a NEED arises and a reasonable alternative that does not stifle one's creativity or individuality is proposed....
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
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I think this is the most amusing post in the thread because the pro-change faction hasn't been able live up to that ideal in this thread or in any other thread on this topic.|
Originally Posted by Traska
It's a pity, I asked upthread if we could have just one of these conversations without the pro-status-quo side resorting to attacks. Apparently, it *is* too much to ask.
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Just another example of them demanding that we do as they say and not as they do.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Interesting challenge. Ok, here's literally the first ten names off the top of my head:
Gigaburner (available) Radiant Wave (taken) Hyperplasma (available) (The) Ignitioner (available) Hyperflame (taken) Hyperflames (available) Arc Burst (taken) Blitzfire (taken) Blitzflame (available) Lord Inferno (taken) |
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
I had better luck than you did Arcanaville. Here's the frst ten names I came up with on Freedom and they were all available.
Deep Friar (Deep as in Philsophical, Friar as in monk/burning pun) (available) J G Petrol (Jellied Gasoline) (available) Napalm Avenger (available) Phlogistinator (available) Khan Flagration (available) Blaze Incandescence (available) Pyro Luminosity (available) Midnite Immolator (available) Dusk Inferno (available) Eternal SoulFyre (available) |
But to my suprise I managed to procure myself the name of "(The) Blistering Blaze". Nice double meaning on the first part of the name, and fit the concept even better than any version ofthe original, which admitedly was just a place holder name while working on the concept/costume.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Then it's time for them to get off the cross, use the wood to build a bridge, and get over it.
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This was very much a problem in that other super heroic MMO which had global@character naming system, yet another reason I didn't stick around long.
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Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
and truth be told I do not want Joe Schmoe out there in Broadcast with a duplicate of my name saying things that I would never say. Sure my friends may know it's not me because they know my global... but Player A who sees I BURNT THE TOAST screaming profanity or racial slanders in broadcast.... will probably react negatively to me if they saw me 15 minutes later. I'm sorry but I have little faith that scenarios like this would not be a daily occurrence as there can be quite an immature player base spouting off in various channels.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Then it's time for them to get off the cross, use the wood to build a bridge, and get over it.
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Hehehehe, love it. Can imagine the NPC dialogue even now. Sometime get amusing dialogue with one of my toons. "Did you Hear? Lord Recluse was defeated by A Cold Spell"|
Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
Your ExGirlfriend
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on an unrelated note, sorry for multi posting, but was replying as I was catching up and assumed there would be other posts between mine.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Then it's time for them to get off the cross, use the wood to build a bridge, and get over it.
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No, I know what an ad hominem is: a personal attack. Tell me, how else am I supposed to take telling me that my argument boils down to a temper tantrum? As a compliment?|
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
I don't think you know how to use that term. If you do, you sure don't know how to use it in a sentence.
Thread milestone! Ad Hominem used! Coming up next: Hyperbole! |
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Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
1. People are not attacking YOU. They are attacking your idea.
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Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
3. You have stated this is not an issue of Creativity, but you have failed to negate this assertion with any use of the commonly used terms and application of the word.
cre·a·tive [kree-ey-tiv] Show IPA adjective 1. having the quality or power of creating. 2. resulting from originality of thought, expression, etc.; imaginative: creative writing. |
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Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
The current system is based on using creativity. What you are proposing is the exact opposite of creative. You are proposing a plan which would in fact take away one's ability to be an individual...this is NOT creative. Your attitude is not about creativity it is about defeatism. Defeatism is the exact opposite of creativity as it is giving up...not looking for alternatives..not being imaginative.
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Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
You can claim all you want there are no "good" names left, but this is a subjective opinion...one which many people disagree with. Names are themselves a product of creativity and as such are purely subjective...as is all creative forms... think art and music.
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Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
We can agree to disagree. And I will continue to disagree with a change from the current naming system until a NEED arises and a reasonable alternative that does not stifle one's creativity or individuality is proposed....
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
I think this is the most amusing post in the thread because the pro-change faction hasn't been able live up to that ideal in this thread or in any other thread on this topic.
Just another example of them demanding that we do as they say and not as they do. |
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Originally Posted by St_Angelius
Hehehehe, love it. Can imagine the NPC dialogue even now. Sometime get amusing dialogue with one of my toons. "Did you Hear? Lord Recluse was defeated by A Cold Spell"
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One other thing to mention... While I am firmly in the camp of people who'd love an open naming system, and I am aware we'll likely never see that happen, I'd suggest to people having trouble naming characters to not be afraid to step outside the box. And by that I mean your name doesn't always have to reflect your powers.
A good example is Firestar. She has NO FIRE BASED POWERS. She'd technically be a radiation blaster since her abilities are microwave based, not flame. A character name doesn't necessarily have to live up to the imagery in costume or powers.
Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30
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Originally Posted by Traska
Also, merely having the same name does not take away individuality. If you were to create a character named "Blue Bolt" and that character had blue colored lightning, and I name a character "Blue Bolt" and that character was a speedster, they would be completely different characters, with different costumes, backstories, and powers. The only similarity would be the name.
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Maybe it has been lost in the shuffle, but what exactly is your solution to the problem other than 'let everyone use whatever name they like'? Because if Blue Bolt invites me to a taskforce, how do I know if I am being invited by Blue-Bolt-who-leads -a great-TF or Blue-Bolt-who -couldn't-lead-a-TF -if-his-life-depended-on-it? Because costumes and powers mean nothing on a chat channel or when the person is five zones away.
The only solution I've seen anyone suggest is adding the global to the name which, quite frankly, is hideous. I cannot think of anything more anti-comic book/superhero feel than running around with a name like Bob@suchandso. I have yet to see a superhero with a name like an email address.
"Home is where, when you have to go there, they have to let you in."
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I don't see why someone else giving their character a silly name has any effect on you. No-one is suggesting you use a silly name, and them doing it doesn't lower your pool of names. You aren't unique in having well writen back stories for each and every character. But having a backstory doesn't marry you to that characters super hero name. Especially in a world where ALL super heros are registered as per the games lore. Just coz your thick-as-bricks only english speaking fire brute came up with the, in his mind, perfect name for himself does not mean that when he registered at the FBSA and gave over the name he wanted to be know by the desk cleark didn't look over her glasses contemtivly and say "sorry dear, that name is taken." Also, a thick-as-bricks brute is unlikely to have a great name that would look good on the front of a comic book in the first place. There could also be a world of difference between what the hero wants to call himself and what the world at large want to call him.|
Originally Posted by Traska
This is the very essence of the problem... some people play this game to play traditional superheroes (that was completely what sold me the first time I heard about the game from G4, back before it was even in beta), and a name like "Your ExGirlfriend" doesn't appeal in the slightest to those players. Which is why we're so skeptical when people say that there are plenty of good names, and you just have to be willing to be creative, and just tweak your character concept a little. In this, yes, I am rigid. Every single character of mine is done as if they could appear in a comic book, because I am a comic book fan. Some would be mere supporting characters, some would be comic headliners, but all could appear in a serious comic like Batman or Captain America. That is the benchmark I strive for, and because of that, the pool of names I would use is limited. Not everyone plays my way, and that's fine. But don't expect me to play your (generic you) way just because you're willing to use a wider selection of names.
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I already gave an example of how I came up with a name for a concept for a character yet when it came to creating in game found, unsuprisingly, that it, and all permutations of it (Flash Fire, Flash-Fire, Flashfire) was taken. A hand full of back up names were taken too, or maybe clashed with a power name (if that is posible) so blazing bolt, for example, was also out. It took me no fewer than 5 minutes to come up with The Blistering Blaze. I name that is not only much better, but also wouldn't look out of place on the front of a comic book.
I have another character where his first choice of names slotted nicely in to his back story. Thus Shock Tactic, was formally the low rent wannabe super Villian Lightning Rod, at least till he crossed The Family and his wife and child paid the price. Other names, for serious heros I have, that you'll no-doubt hate, are
Psi Fire (Appearing in a comic near you soon (tm) ),
Mistique Blade,
Microwave Girl,
Clockwork Kitten, and her praetorian 'twin', Clockwork Kitty,
Kid Ego,
Time Mind (Brought to CoH from an old Marvel RPG campaign I played years ago),
Justin Tyme, (same marvel rpg campaign),
Lolita Lethal and her genetic clone sister Lina Lethal (escaped crey experiments)
St Angelius aka, The Black Angel (First choice name, so went with real name for display name),
Tess Trueshot,
Shadow Smite,
Miss Victory,
Dr Frost,
Cold Chamber,
Perfect Pitch,
Dread Visage,
Trapdoor Spider,
Senior Diablos,
Speedo Sound (former champion Swimmer turned speeder that can't give up his former glory).
Were all of those first choice name, well, for the most part, yes, but not all of them. Could most of them appear in a lagitimate comic book? Hell yes! Even My hero A Cold Spell, a technomance cryo sealed in armour of his own spellcrafting, could. Just because the character had a sense of humour with his own name doesn't make him any less of a lagitimate type hero. Infact, IC wise, he finds all the silly (read as serious) names most of the heroes of Paragon go around calling themselves to be rather childish.
But basicly, as I tried to demonstrate, first choice name doesn't have to mean BEST. I came up with a better name than anything on my short list of names and ended up with The Blistering Blaze, which is far more suitable. I cannot think of any example of a back story where only one name will fit, other than a long established one being ported over, as was demonstrated with the Shepard and Freelance sory a few pages back. I did the same with 2 of my own characters when DP and Time were released and got both. if the names weren't availible, I wouldn't have brought them an and created new stories for new characters with new names instead. I work out my characters backstory before I create them too, but I almost never lock them down to a single posible name, always have a stable of posible names and know which ones I would prefer to have. If that doesn't work, I keep trying, there WILL be something out there that fits without getting silly or lazy.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Then it's time for them to get off the cross, use the wood to build a bridge, and get over it.
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Edit: Forget this, I forgot to check how long the thread was before posting.
Main Hero: Mazey - level 50 + 1 fire/fire/fire blaster.
Main Villain: Chained Bot - level 50 + 1 Robot/FF Mastermind.
BattleEngine - "And the prize for the most level headed response ever goes to Mazey"
To me creativity is more than thinking up a simple name...it is taking the challenge and being creative about it. I honestly think Blue Beetle rates pretty low on creativity whereas I think Azure Scarab...pretty frickin creative.
It reminds me of Boggle...where you look for all kinds of words in a puzzle. If you constantly use the same 4-5 letter words...you are not using your creative side as much...and get a lower score....because a lot of people see the same ordinary words in the boggle puzzle and disqualify your choice. I love the challenge of naming toons and would think seeing the same name over and over followed by @Global would be silly....and frankly quite boring. The creative names people come up with this in this game...make me smile.