What I dislike the most
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2012-06-12 15:26 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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I get it. Apples and oranges are both examples of fruit but you can't call an orange an apple because apples got the name first.
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Originally Posted by Premonitions
Let me say it again. That "simile" involves two different things which have nothing to do with the thing being described. In other words, it's a bad metaphor. I use facts, it's a bad metaphor because the two concepts involved don't have anything in common.Apples and oranges. |
You know, I originally wanted to say "fish and rocks" but for some reason went with the classic. Doh.
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Personally, I like the local@global system a lot, and I think a lot of the objections raised against it are nonsense and/or are overblown (as in, the things people are worried about do not actually happen in places where the system exists, or happen incredibly rarely). Still, a significant fraction of the opposition to the idea stems from people who just don't want someone else out there with the same name, even if they never encounter or even hear of that person. This would make them unhappy.
I think that doesn't make sense. It doesn't affect them in any way. But, y'know, I've come to realize that it doesn't matter whether it makes sense. There are things that upset me in ways that don't make sense. If I sit down and think about it and try several times I can maybe come up with a halfway-coherent explanation of exactly why it upsets me, but that's not the point here. The point is, a significant number of people would be unhappy with any non-unique naming system, just as people are currently unhappy with a unique naming system. Telling them that their unhappiness doesn't make sense will not make them less unhappy. And the existence and apparently substantial size of this group of CoH's players means that a change in the naming system would not necessarily make more players happy, it would just make a DIFFERENT group of players happy. And such a significant change should be a lot better justified than "Well, we would end up collectively about as well-off as we currently are, except now you get to suck it up and deal with it instead of me."
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This man/woman knows what's up.
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Originally Posted by Hopeling
Personally, I like the local@global system a lot, and I think a lot of the objections raised against it are nonsense and/or are overblown (as in, the things people are worried about do not actually happen in places where the system exists, or happen incredibly rarely). Still, a significant fraction of the opposition to the idea stems from people who just don't want someone else out there with the same name, even if they never encounter or even hear of that person. This would make them unhappy.
I think that doesn't make sense. It doesn't affect them in any way. But, y'know, I've come to realize that it doesn't matter whether it makes sense. There are things that upset me in ways that don't make sense. If I sit down and think about it and try several times I can maybe come up with a halfway-coherent explanation of exactly why it upsets me, but that's not the point here. The point is, a significant number of people would be unhappy with any non-unique naming system, just as people are currently unhappy with a unique naming system. Telling them that their unhappiness doesn't make sense will not make them less unhappy. And the existence and apparently substantial size of this group of CoH's players means that a change in the naming system would not necessarily make more players happy, it would just make a DIFFERENT group of players happy. And such a significant change should be a lot better justified than "Well, we would end up collectively about as well-off as we currently are, except now you get to suck it up and deal with it instead of me." |
Anyone Who wants to argue about my usual foolishness can find me here.
https://twitter.com/Premmytwit
I'll miss you all.
I often have a really hard time with names -- ask anyone who's ever been in a D&D game I was running.
I don't really think CoH is particularly broken here, though, as I regularly think of characters and get one of my first few name ideas for them.
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Actually, it's not a bad metaphor In copyright law, 2 thing of the same nature cannot be called the sdame thing. for example. I can't decide to make a new chocolate bar and call it 'Snickers' as there is already one out there copy written. Same with coke and soft drinks. Mobile phones and IPhone etc. the same with this game and character names on each server. that is where the metaphor is and it is valid!
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Originally Posted by Premonitions
[IMG]Let me say it again. That "simile" involves two different things which have nothing to do with the thing being described.
In other words, it's a bad metaphor. I don't use hubristic highfalutin misconstrued arguments. I use facts, it's a bad metaphor because the two concepts involved don't have anything in common.Apples and oranges. Using copyright as the basis of your argument is wrong. Also: The name isn't yours but I still can't have it.(I also don't want it, I'm more or less happy with the names I get) |
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Then it's time for them to get off the cross, use the wood to build a bridge, and get over it.
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I get that one too. |
Originally Posted by Premonitions
You know, I originally wanted to say "fish and rocks" but for some reason went with the classic. Doh.
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See rocks were around longer than fish, so they got the name first, and fish had to wait until they died and turned into rocks but by the time that happened they had to settle for Fossils.
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You can already make a character that is the same as someone else in everything copyright actually covers(in so much as we can pretend it applies to the game), though, appearance, e.t.c.|
Originally Posted by St_Angelius
Actually, it's not a bad metaphor In copyright law, 2 thing of the same nature cannot be called the sdame thing. for example. I can't decide to make a new chocolate bar and call it 'Snickers' as there is already one out there copy written. Same with coke and soft drinks. Mobile phones and IPhone etc. the same with this game and character names on each server. that is where the metaphor is and it is valid!
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
I get that one too.
See rocks were around longer than fish, so they got the name first, and fish had to wait until they died and turned into rocks but by the time that happened they had to settle for Fossils. |
Anyone Who wants to argue about my usual foolishness can find me here.
https://twitter.com/Premmytwit
I'll miss you all.
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Oh, you mean like pepsi is to coca-cola?
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Originally Posted by Premonitions
You can already make a character that is the same as someone else in everything copyright actually covers(in so much as we can pretend it applies to the game), though, appearance, e.t.c.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Then it's time for them to get off the cross, use the wood to build a bridge, and get over it.
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Them actually being exactly the same is a matter of personal taste. I can exactly copy someone else's build and costume in this game.
Anyone Who wants to argue about my usual foolishness can find me here.
https://twitter.com/Premmytwit
I'll miss you all.
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Actually Stars had to be the most creative cuz there's so many of them, and they've been around longer than rocks. But even there you have gold farming stars with names like CD-52°914, or BD38° 3238 which spam RHT (Real Hydrogen Transfers) thruout the universe with offers to sell in game currency for Hydrogen.
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Originally Posted by Premonitions
Rocks: The most creative things ever. XD
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I thought those were UFOs?
Anyone Who wants to argue about my usual foolishness can find me here.
https://twitter.com/Premmytwit
I'll miss you all.
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But you cannot be EXACTLY the same, in that the name used to identify you to others has to be different. Same as in copyright/trademark laws. I could go out and make a chocolate bar made exactly the same as a Snickers bar, put it in a similar looking wrapper, I just cannot call it Snickers.
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Originally Posted by Premonitions
Them actually being exactly the same is a matter of personal taste. I can exactly copy someone else's build and costume in this game.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Then it's time for them to get off the cross, use the wood to build a bridge, and get over it.
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Not to nitpick, but...since the cola comparison came up:|
Originally Posted by Premonitions
Them actually being exactly the same is a matter of personal taste. I can exactly copy someone else's build and costume in this game.
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Both Pepsi and Coca-Cola have different recipes for various parts of the world....some variants available in certain countries and not others.
And while you can exactly copy my character's powers/costume... you still cannot exactly copy the name...on the same server
So even if Pepsi/Coca-Cola somehow managed to make duplicate copies of ingredients...the name...still unique Because the name is what truly makes the product....kind of like in CoH...lots of Fire/SS Brutes; even some with the exact same powers/enhancements/accolades...but still one thing that makes them unique....their name And FYI - I don't drink soda...I think it tastes nasty.
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
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But you can call an orange an apple., or an appIe, or an app-el. Or Captain Apple.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
I get it. Apples and oranges are both examples of fruit but you can't call an orange an apple because apples got the name first.
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Because those were free.
Also, apple is level 10 and hasn't played since 2004, is it really fair for him to stop orange from calling himself apple? And why would apple really care, anyway, if someone he'll never meet is also called apple (instead of apple., or appIe).
Apple shouldn't be so petty.
Thought for the day:
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."
=][=
Well after that whole "eve" incident Apple's been pretty bitter.
Anyone Who wants to argue about my usual foolishness can find me here.
https://twitter.com/Premmytwit
I'll miss you all.
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This has nothing whatsoever to do with copyright.|
Originally Posted by St_Angelius
Actually, it's not a bad metaphor In copyright law, 2 thing of the same nature cannot be called the sdame thing.
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And you may think that's a trivial distinction, but given how wildly different the various kinds of intellectual property law are, and how different their effects are, I think it's an important one to get right.
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I'll take that challenge. Which server?
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Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
you still cannot exactly copy the name...on the same server
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Thought for the day:
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."
=][=
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And yet, in a weirdly appropriate naming twist, you do have the Cox's Orange Pippin. Which is an apple.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
I get it. Apples and oranges are both examples of fruit but you can't call an orange an apple because apples got the name first.
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Nice to see a sense of humor has returned to the thread, or at least came back out of hiding. 
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I really don't have an objection to a name purge, but I will question what I think is a weak argument to justify it because I want them to make the best case possible to convince the devs to change their minds. |
Originally Posted by Slaunyeh
But you can call an orange an apple., or an appIe, or an app-el. Or Captain Apple.
Because those were free. Also, apple is level 10 and hasn't played since 2004, is it really fair for him to stop orange from calling himself apple? And why would apple really care, anyway, if someone he'll never meet is also called apple (instead of apple., or appIe). Apple shouldn't be so petty. |
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I just want to play Captain Apple, now. |
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
I really don't have an objection to a name purge, but I will question what I think is a weak argument to justify it because I want them to make the best case possible to convince the devs to change their minds.
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Thought for the day:
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."
=][=
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Or maybe Apple is an active player and doesn't see why he should have to be called Apple@Rhutabega because some johny-come-lately wants his name.
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Originally Posted by Slaunyeh
Also, apple is level 10 and hasn't played since 2004, is it really fair for him to stop orange from calling himself apple? And why would apple really care, anyway, if someone he'll never meet is also called apple (instead of apple., or appIe).
Apple shouldn't be so petty. |
"Home is where, when you have to go there, they have to let you in."
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"Snickers" isn't copyrighted, its trademarked. The rules on trademark are that once someone is using a trademark for business purposes, no one else can use an identical mark or a sufficiently similar one that could be confused with it within the same business context.
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Originally Posted by St_Angelius
Actually, it's not a bad metaphor In copyright law, 2 thing of the same nature cannot be called the sdame thing. for example. I can't decide to make a new chocolate bar and call it 'Snickers' as there is already one out there copy written. Same with coke and soft drinks. Mobile phones and IPhone etc. the same with this game and character names on each server. that is where the metaphor is and it is valid!
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Anyone Who wants to argue about my usual foolishness can find me here.
https://twitter.com/Premmytwit
I'll miss you all.