50+10? Abandoned or still planned?


Arcanaville

 

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Originally Posted by Scythus View Post
So I gather that means the others are there "just in case"?
They all wound up in the game at the same time (Issue 20ish I think), so I think they were thinking they'd get to them eventually. But then people didn't respond very well to having more currencies than there are flavors of Kool-Aid.


 

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Originally Posted by Vanden View Post
They already have new merits ready to go in the game. Celestial, Cosmic, and Transcendent merits. Try linking them in the chat box some time, they're there.
Ugh. Still, i think we knew all it will happen.

So glad they got rid of base slavage though - that was confusing


I don't suffer from altitis, I enjoy every minute of it.

Thank you Devs & Community people for a great game.

So sad to be ending ):

 

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Originally Posted by tanstaafl View Post
Ugh. Still, i think we knew all it will happen.

So glad they got rid of base slavage though - that was confusing
Celestial is already in the game, it's one of the reward options for the Belladonna Vetrano incarnate arc. The Celestial merits are redeemable for either 2 astrals or 1 emp merit.


 

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Originally Posted by Positron View Post
We currently have no plans to go beyond Empyrean.
Thanks! I'm glad to be proven wrong.

Still expecting some new type of currency for future slots though. Please feel free to make me wrong with that as well "D


I don't suffer from altitis, I enjoy every minute of it.

Thank you Devs & Community people for a great game.

So sad to be ending ):

 

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Originally Posted by Electric-Knight View Post
Beyond Empyrean... would that be Ludicrous Merits?
They'd be Penny Merits - there's no higher power than that in the multiverse.


@Golden Girl

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Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
If they start giving too many more shifts, they'll need to add some kind of scaled back rewards or exemplaring for the lower level Trials - like getting, say, the current Keyes Island reward table for fighting gray mobs and a green Anti-matter would be unbalanced.
Or just have future shifts count as Advanced Shifts that are only active on post-Magesterium trials.


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The OP asked about level shifts, and ten level shifts were never to my knowledge on the table, and the marketing survey never mentions them.

The devs never considered a level shift itself to be "a level" - that's an invention of the playerbase, something I stated publicly and repeatedly many, many times. The devs originally considered each tier of the incarnate system to be a sort of progressional level, but not an explicit combat level. Level shift was just a specific kind of powerful buff within the system. Even when the real incarnate system was revealed the devs were still referring to the tiers of the system as analogous to incarnate "levels" or progress, with no specific connection to combat level shifts as such.

Both Castle and Black Scorpion confirmed independently to me that there was never any intent to give out ten shifts, or that shifts were supposed to be equated to levels. Also, Castle said it did not occur to him that the players might see incarnate slots with level shift as "a level" while slots without it as "not a level" - there was no intended connection between shifts and incarnate progress in that sense of the word.

50+10 was never planned, never abandoned, and I don't think it was ever seriously contemplated at any time. We aren't going to get it, and at no time was there ever a possibility we were going to get that, at least not in the form they currently take in the incarnate powers (that leaves open the possibility of level shifts as non-perma buffs, ala Ultimate inspirations and the lights in the Magi trial).

The devs can change their minds at any time, but as of right now I would be surprised to see more than one more level shift in the last four slots (most likely in Omega).


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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Also, Castle said it did not occur to him that the players might see incarnate slots with level shift as "a level" while slots without it as "not a level" - there was no intended connection between shifts and incarnate progress in that sense of the word.
The level shifts look more like "a level" to me than the short-duration AoE buffs and moderate-use procs do.


 

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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Also, Castle said it did not occur to him that the players might see incarnate slots with level shift as "a level" while slots without it as "not a level" - there was no intended connection between shifts and incarnate progress in that sense of the word.
Then they obviously didn't properly ask for player feedback. This was incredibly short-sighted on the development team's part and, if not Castle, someone else should have spoke up.

Incarnate slots != Level.
Level Shifts = Level.

I'd rather have a T3/T4 Lore slot unused with nothing in Judgement than the other way around. Same goes for Destiny/Interface. I'd rather have a T3/T4 in either Lore or Destiny than build anything in the hybrid slot, and that would apply if I was actually prevented from using the Lore or Destiny powers.

Level shifts mean more than the buffs/powers themselves. If the development team hasn't figured this out by now, I have to wonder what it would take to get the developers to see what is in front of them.

Edit:
Let me be clear, if Alpha, Lore, and Destiny only granted a level shift and not anything else, I'd still value them over Judgement, Interface, and Hybrid.




Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters

 

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Originally Posted by GuyPerfect View Post
The level shifts look more like "a level" to me than the short-duration AoE buffs and moderate-use procs do.
Except ya know.. only one of those "levels" applies anywhere but incarnate content.

I am in the opposite boat... the new powers (not the level shift) are what make me feel stronger. On my main I have gained:

Alpha: Acc/End Redux/Heal big time
Judgment: A quite handy and quite powerful "nuke" that has no discernible drawbacks.
Lore: Two very helpful pets
Interface: A proc that works on all my attacks dealing more damage and decreasing their resistance..meaning more damage.
Destiny: Permanent stun protection on a Corruptor
Hybrid: Uhmm more damage

So yeah the POWERS make me feel more than 50 not the +1.


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Originally Posted by Paladiamors View Post
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Originally Posted by Snow Globe View Post
Then they obviously didn't properly ask for player feedback. This was incredibly short-sighted on the development team's part and, if not Castle, someone else should have spoke up.

Incarnate slots != Level.
Level Shifts = Level.

I'd rather have a T3/T4 Lore slot unused with nothing in Judgement than the other way around. Same goes for Destiny/Interface. I'd rather have a T3/T4 in either Lore or Destiny than build anything in the hybrid slot, and that would apply if I was actually prevented from using the Lore or Destiny powers.

Level shifts mean more than the buffs/powers themselves. If the development team hasn't figured this out by now, I have to wonder what it would take to get the developers to see what is in front of them.
They asked for feedback - not their fault players took/take that as a promise of something that is coming. Companies ask for feedback and even insert certain scenarios or possibilities to see if their users would like something...doesn't mean they are going to do it.

Going by what has been PRESENTED not PROPOSED...the incarnate system is not misleading. Remember when people assumed because Alpha gave a level shift that the others would as well....and then got all butthurt because they didn't? Nowhere have the devs stated that level shifts would occur outside of Alpha, but if you ask some players..it's always gonna be the next incarnate slot that gives another level. The boards are full of these assumptions...and you know what they say about assuming

Some people do not care for the incarnate content...the trials..etc... and a lot of people love them. Incarnate content is the only thing that keeps me paying my sub. I had grown bored with the game and actually took a small 2 month break before incarnates. I just found the "end game" quite boring. I do not suffer from altitis like most people.. I find and keep a few toons I like a lot. After 7 years I have .... 5 toons. .. A Corruptor, Scrapper, Brute, Dominator, and Controller. I have no plans on making any more toons until Water Blast comes out....in the meantime incarnate content and badges will keep me happily subbed Because...I do not assume to know where the incarnate path is going...and have no false ideas that it is something different than what we were promised/presented with in official statements


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Originally Posted by Paladiamors View Post
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!

 

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Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast View Post
Except ya know.. only one of those "levels" applies anywhere but incarnate content.

I am in the opposite boat... the new powers (not the level shift) are what make me feel stronger. On my main I have gained:

Alpha: Acc/End Redux/Heal big time
Judgment: A quite handy and quite powerful "nuke" that has no discernible drawbacks.
Lore: Two very helpful pets
Interface: A proc that works on all my attacks dealing more damage and decreasing their resistance..meaning more damage.
Destiny: Permanent stun protection on a Corruptor
Hybrid: Uhmm more damage

So yeah the POWERS make me feel more than 50 not the +1.
This. People keep failing (choosing to forget?) that only ONE of the level shifts functions all the time.


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The other two have been working just fine for me ever since Dark Astoria happened.


 

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Originally Posted by GuyPerfect View Post
The other two have been working just fine for me ever since Dark Astoria happened.
Which is the point of Dark Astoria?

So how are the other two working in anywhere that isn't an INCARNATE ZONE?


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Originally Posted by GuyPerfect View Post
The other two have been working just fine for me ever since Dark Astoria happened.
Which is precisely why I said:

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Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
Except ya know.. only one of those "levels" applies anywhere but incarnate content.
Seeing as DA falls under: Incarnate Content....


Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladiamors View Post
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!

 

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Originally Posted by Positron View Post
We currently have no plans to go beyond Empyrean.
Please remember that adverb when, sometime years from now, they do indeed add a new 'currency' for a good reason and someone says, "Positron lied!!!1!! He said they'd *never* introduce a new currency!11!1ragequit!11!!"

Things can change. If there are no *current* plans... then that's good for about 18 months. Or maybe never. Just none in the pipeline for what's planned.


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Originally Posted by Snow Globe View Post
Then they obviously didn't properly ask for player feedback. This was incredibly short-sighted on the development team's part and, if not Castle, someone else should have spoke up.
I don't feel that way. I never inferred that "hypothetical 'Level 60' really meant +10 more functional combat levels. I mean, sure, it occurred to me that it might, back as far as that survey came out, but I never assumed that was for sure what it meant. And given that it actually occurred to me that they might mean +10 combat levels, there were specific reasons that I thought it might not.

One, already discussed in this thread was the way the phrase was written. But it was really that in combination with the knowledge that the devs had several times referred to the Invention System as "alternate progress". That made apparent to me that they were open to means of character progress not tied to numerical level. There are clearly tiers of power one can build with Inventions, but they are complex and branching. With the way they used the phrase "Level 60", I foresaw that they might do something like that with what we now know as the Incarnate System.


Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

 

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The level shifts, for me, have been inconsequential to everything except for Incarnate content and max difficulty runs. This is largely because I just increase my security level on all my toons that have a shift. So now, I fight at 50+2 instead of 50+1. The powers themselves are what pulls me through difficult situations.

Though I would be lying if I said that the level shifts didn't help me through the I-trials a lot.



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Originally Posted by Blood Red Arachnid View Post
The level shifts, for me, have been inconsequential to everything except for Incarnate content and max difficulty runs. This is largely because I just increase my security level on all my toons that have a shift. So now, I fight at 50+2 instead of 50+1. The powers themselves are what pulls me through difficult situations.
This is what I do, too. I ran all my 50s at +2 before Incarnates, which meant, in practice, I had to be able to at least handle +3s, because they would show up in missions. Now that my 50s are +1 full-time, I bumped the slider to +4 (meaning I'm really fighting +3s). That was possible since I was already built to handle +3s at least around 1/2 the time, and my actual Incarnate powers ensured I could do it full time.

As an bonus, playing at the top of the level slider scale (+4) means I never have to worry about foes whose level varies within the mission, which actually tends to smooth my performance against any given critter faction.


Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by GuyPerfect View Post
They all wound up in the game at the same time (Issue 20ish I think), so I think they were thinking they'd get to them eventually. But then people didn't respond very well to having more currencies than there are flavors of Kool-Aid.
Now why on Earth would anyone have a reaction like that?


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Perhaps another measure that could be taken in order to avoid the "player has so many level shifts that older content becomes completely trivial" would be to develop incarnate powers that emulate the effects of Black Swan's quill attack - debuffing level shifts on the most dangerous incarnate foes (even if only for a short while), with a shift "floor" of +0. As there are no special rewards (or at least I haven't noticed any) for defeating a level-shifted foe, such an incarnate power would not be especially overpowering in regular content, but would allow an Incarnate to be far more effective against extremely powerful opponents (Mot, Praetorian Hamidon, etc)


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Huh.

 

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Originally Posted by Aura_Familia View Post
So how are the other two working in anywhere that isn't an INCARNATE ZONE?

Why the crap would I want to play for chump change in a non-Incarnate Zone?



Oh, I know! Let's go bust Hellions with THREE LEVEL SHIFTS!


 

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It's probably reasonable that we'll get more toys that allow temporary or conditional level shifts. Powers that boost our shifts for a short time or debuff foes with negative shifts for a short time seem quite reasonable options. Adding mechanics that do that in missions, via granted temp powers or effects like the Light of The Well are pretty good examples, because they keep the level shifts from being something you have to bring on your own.

Imagine a "level shift Build Up". Something like that might be reasonable, and yet still actually pretty powerful both defensively and offensively.


Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA