Thank You for Making Me Useless

ippon!

And.... SLAP

Helps to read Dev comments on the subject before posting....

Known Issue
Being Fixed
Chill

Originally Posted by Paladiamors I love you, I Burnt the Toast!

Dun dun dunnnnnn!

Nope, you both missed the mark. That thread's talking about some level shift bug. Totally not the issue here.

I send in my pets to fight Tyrant. They immediately come back in little bitty pieces. While we're at it, let's turn off all Tanker sheilds, remove Blaster ranged attacks and prevent Stalkers from doing anything in melee!

I thought we weren't supposed to speak about pvp.
/sarcasm off

Thank you for bringing that subject of i13 back up.

Actually.. the level shift should help... right now your pets aren't getting it. With an upcoming patch.. they should be +8 or so, 1 level below you as you should be +9.. they Should be a bit more survivable....

Technically it was supposed to be the start of an on-going project to fix PVP... but immaturity and impatience caused those bridges to be burned from both ends.

Originally Posted by Nethergoat it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!

All 3 tiers of henchmen will be raised to just -1 of me?

Because they are not getting the shift from the lights... which is what Zwill said is in a bug fix soon. Of course your pets are like paper dolls.. they are +2...fighting a +9

Originally Posted by Paladiamors I love you, I Burnt the Toast!

Oh snap. Open mouth, insert foot!

Originally Posted by Nethergoat it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!

It's a tough fight for everyone. You've got more tools than just your pets.

Well that was quick; no benefit of the doubt or anything!

Also, nice try, but I was on light duty. They were +5s +6s before I sent them in, for just this very reason. Ol' bossypants still one- or two-shotted them with AoEs because the devs wanted him to have lulz epic aoezes. Ostracizing an entire archetype is no way to design a boss.

Neurotoxic Breath can only do so much good. (-:

Actually.. I've heard similar complaints going all the way back to the BAFs.. "the MMs are getting penalized cause pets don't count toward participation." and keyes complaints that the Beams are wipiong them out too easy.. all those were either proved false or changed (in the case of Keyes).

Hell.. my main is a tank and I hate jumping in and out thanks to the Hami-level Untyped damage of Tyrant's lightning. Does that "ostracize" my Tank, or the Tank AT? No.. just means I can't use my usual tactics, I need to change. Trials are designed to force you outta your comfort zone, to "force" more coordination and different roles. Is it always a good thing or successful? Hell No, but most times its decently done.

It's nearly impossible to balance everything for every AT.. some will always have a lesser role in some situations- and considering that MMs on the whole can steamroll 99% of the rest of the game... having a reduced role on a certain Trial isn't that shocking.

Another note... what is your primary? Melee MMs are going to be at a real disadvantage against Tyrant.. just the way it is in that Trial.

That you point out that you were on light duty suggests to me that you are not aware of the actual mechanics involved, which makes me wonder if you know whether or not your pets were shifted the way you think they were. (Note that I don't mean that as a dig. The mechanics are obscure. I'm just pointing out that the problem may not be what you think it is.)

Being near lights, being the person who takes one out, or anything of that sort has no bearing on whether you or any pet gets a level shift. They are given out by an entity that is not centered in the bowl, and presumably give them to the first closest 16 targets only.

When this behavior is fixed, Tyrant will be +0 to you nearly full time. He's still a potent AV, but he should not be significantly more deadly for your henchmen than most +0 AVs. Indeed, because the rules for the level penalty your henchment get in iTrials is different than in other content, it may be easier for non-trial AVs to destroy them in general.

Keeping your pets on passive for almost the entire duration? Well your doing something wrong there.
Your inside more than you are outside, and when outside passive, and run behind buildings to avoid aggro.
There's a warning to tell you your being teleported, one click and problem solved.

They initially tried to revamp PVP for two major reasons: because a lot of players just didn't like it and the nerfs made to players in PVE for PVP reasons (since the systems were originally one in the same), and because "City of Hero" (the Korean port of the game) was floundering, and the investors felt that a more active PVP community might save it. Castle, the lead powers developer before Synapse, heard the complaints of what people didn't like about what is now usually called "i12 PVP" and came up with some ideas on how to counteract those problems, as well as a way to divorce the PVE and PVP systems so players would no longer have to worry about being nerfed for balance in one system while participating in the other. (See Energy Melee: once the king of single target damage, now one of the most underperforming attack sets in the game in all areas but burst damage... mostly because it was considered overpowered in PVP.)

After Castle's initial round of changes--which were intended, as I said, to be the first steps in a long-standing project--the members of the PVP community who had been invited to the beta hated it and leaked all the changes outside of the closed beta, all but ruining the developers' ability to get decent data and feedback on the changes. There were harsh words on both sides of the ensuing arguments--one of the former community reps actually lost his job over a comment he made retorting to the already enraged PVPers--and it was decided to put PVP in maintenance mode until things had cooled off enough to try again.

Unfortunately, Castle took another job offer, so PVP hasn't changed a whole lot since. The existing development team is understandably wary of broaching the subject again, though Posi has said on record a few times that they have some ideas they'd like to try when they've got room in the development schedule, but it is unlikely that they'll be anywhere near as sweeping as those changes made in i13.

(In my humble opinion, PVP isn't really any worse off after Issue 13 than before it. Some things that were problems before were fixed, some new problems arose as a result, but mostly, the changes that Castle made were cranked all the way to 11 when they should have been set more in the 2-5 range.)

Originally Posted by Nethergoat it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!

It's not just TPN. You try running Keyes on a Bots/Traps and tell me how much 'fun' it is. Or a BAF, where the pets run where the hell they will, and then get Tower Sniped. Or a lambda, where they INSIST on running in to punch Marauder in the face. Despite the fact they are Bots. With lasers. And Rockets. And oh look, Nova Fist, all dead. Oh well, respawn th- why am I catching artillery in the face?!

Playing a Bots/Traps MM, for one, is just too painful in Incarnate content. Why? Because not only does it punish MMs a helluva lot, BUT THE PET AI IS STILL PANTS ON HEAD! Dear lord, it's been fecked since Demons came out, and still fecked when Beasts came out. I haven't touched my MM in ages, because it makes it so gods damned NOT FUN when I order my pets to do something and they IGNORE ME. I tell them to attack something, they go and brawl it in the face!

Is that hard to understand why it sucks like crazy?

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

You seem to be under the impression that "fix" only has one definition. To "fix" something also means to have it neutered or spayed. Which is exactly what was done to PvP in I13. So yes the devs did indeed "fix" PvP.

Need to find another quote by Zwillinger that really sounds like PVP, though he brings it up from time to time, is pretty much stuck where it is. It's less "when they have time to try it" and more "it's just an ongoing series of adjustments, tweaks and balances once we start for very little payback."

See my Guides and Tutorials

I've gotten many Very Rares. Those Masterminds just need to participate more. (-:

The Henchmen don't have trouble in other trials. Some enemies do some hefty damage to them with AoEs, but not to the extent that it's pointless to bring them out in the first place. Not Siege. Not Marauder. Not the Avatar, or Maelstrom, or Penelope Mayhem (though that one IS a bit harsh), or the Sentinel. The antimatter pulse and Obliteration Beam don't seem to do much but scratch them. Everything either hurts the pets so slowly someone gets a few heals off before it matters, or they just don't hit them at all.

Tyrant, on the other hand, is full of "herp derp let's use mega AoE because screw you guys this dude is strong."

I was never able to find that elusive "jump in and out" pet command. I have "attack my target," which gets them killed. I have "follow me," which doesn't help accomplish the task at hand. I also have "dismiss," which doesn't seem to be detrimental in any way...

Thugs. Ironically, the Bruiser doesn't get hit as often, probably because of the miscellaneous buffs in melee around Tyrant by other players.

I checked them in the target window before sending them in. They were usually +5 or +6. If that's a fluke then so be it, but there were +5 and +6 pancakes on the ground a few seconds later. (-:

I haven't had this issue, personally, even while leaving the pets on aggressive. When you hop to the next building, they ignore anything along the way.

They fixed the boss rage AI thing with Issue 23; I've seen it first-hand. They still occasionally do that thing where they have to run aaaaaaaaaaaaaall the way over there just to Heel and then run all the way back, but they won't charge off into oblivion just because there's an AV on the map anymore.




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