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A few weeks ago I saw the same group of characters standing around a certain contact spamming LFT for a specific mission for 45 minutes to an hour. |
Originally Posted by Aggelakis
I rarely form my own teams (though I have no issue with doing so if I wanted to) and have literally never waited for more than 20-30 mintes, let alone "hours", on any server that I have a presence on. (Every formerly-NA server.) Hyperbole isn't good to utilize as an argument.
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Another time I've watched half a dozen "Stand and Spam" LFTer's whining to each other about how the server sucked because no one was running DfB's.
Before Freedom they'd SaS in AP for MA farms, and before that they'd SaS in PI.
And every three to four months someone comes to the forums and complains how such and such server is dead, or suggests the servers be merged because they "can't" find teams.
So I have to disagree about hyperbole being used. Of course it is possible that the people making those complaints are exaggerating about how hard it is for them to find teams, but if we say that to them then we are the big bad internet bullies.
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These are the horses that die from dehydration while swimming.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
A few weeks ago I saw the same group of characters standing around a certain contact spamming LFT for a specific mission for 45 minutes to an hour.
Another time I've watched half a dozen "Stand and Spam" LFTer's whining to each other about how the server sucked because no one was running DfB's. Before Freedom they'd SaS in AP for MA farms, and before that they'd SaS in PI. And every three to four months someone comes to the forums and complains how such and such server is dead, or suggests the servers be merged because they "can't" find teams. So I have to disagree about hyperbole being used. Of course it is possible that the people making those complaints are exaggerating about how hard it is for them to find teams, but if we say that to them then we are the big bad internet bullies. |
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LOL I don't bark orders.. I explain things to people and simply give directions. I also explain WHY I am asking people to do what they are being asked to do...it's my opinion the more well informed people are..the better they become at trials and may eventually end up leading them one day themselves. It's a lot easier to accept doing ACTION A if you know WHY you are doing it imo |
Originally Posted by SuperFerret
I usually don't form teams just because I feel like I'm terrible at it. Other players usually are able to put a team together much faster than I can for some reason.
I also dislike doing trials or being on teams/leagues with leaders like those Toast mentioned. I get that some of the content requires a certain approach, and my first time out, I'm fine with some direction, but there's a difference between guiding people and either hand-holding or barking orders. |
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
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And I'll disagree with that, too. It is hyperbole. Those are just stupid people. Those people aren't actually seeking a team (that implies effort), they want one to fall onto their game screen. To say they're having to wait upwards of an hour to "find a team" is hyperbole - they aren't even ATTEMPTING to find a team, not truly. If they actually looked around to get a team, they would have little to no problem. On any server.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
So I have to disagree about hyperbole being used.
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Paragon Wiki: http://www.paragonwiki.com
City Info Terminal: http://cit.cohtitan.com
Mids Hero Designer: http://www.cohplanner.com
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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Early on in the Eight-hundred pound gorilla's life span it used to take upwards of an hour to find a group for five, ten, and fifteen mans. If you got lucky and there were enough people on who needed something it could be done faster, but generally you really had to work for an extended period of time to get enough people for anything.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
though eight years of surviving as an MMO should indicate that.
I was watching a dev update on an upcoming release for another MMO. They were talking about their team-building tool. The quote that got me going "er... wha?" "This should cut down the time it takes to form a team from around an hour to minutes!" In some ways their tool is like our LFG tool, but still - even on a slow night on one of the lower pop COH servers, I don't think it's taken more than 15 minutes to get a team together (for something that requires a nearly full team, like some of the TFs.) I cannot *imagine* struggling through for an hour.... and their teams are limited to *four* people. One of those "No wonder I keep coming back" items. |
"I have something to say! It's better to burn out then to fade away!"
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Don't even mention 40 mans, good lord. That's why "raiding guilds" formed, to have a ready source of people who wanted to raid at the same time you did (or at scheduled time(s) a week).|
Originally Posted by Paladiamors
Early on in the Eight-hundred pound gorilla's life span it used to take upwards of an hour to find a group for five, ten, and fifteen mans. If you got lucky and there were enough people on who needed something it could be done faster, but generally you really had to work for an extended period of time to get enough people for anything.
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So glad City does not have/need those.
Paragon Wiki: http://www.paragonwiki.com
City Info Terminal: http://cit.cohtitan.com
Mids Hero Designer: http://www.cohplanner.com
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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40 man pugs were just asking for it. *Laughs* Bringing together fourty random people to do the then hardest content in the game was a recipe for disaster.
"I have something to say! It's better to burn out then to fade away!"
I never did a 40 [at level]. I don't even have patience for more than a couple of City's iTrials, let alone the more involved stuff in other MMOs. City has totally spoiled me. Completely.
Paragon Wiki: http://www.paragonwiki.com
City Info Terminal: http://cit.cohtitan.com
Mids Hero Designer: http://www.cohplanner.com
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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"You and thirty-nine of your closest friends can enjoy this instance for six or more hours at a time!" No joke, a friend of mine could literally do the Blackrock Mountain corpse run with his eyes closed.|
Originally Posted by Paladiamors
40 man pugs were just asking for it. *Laughs* Bringing together fourty random people to do the then hardest content in the game was a recipe for disaster.
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CoH's long history and unusually high retention rate also means we have a lot of veterans, which is also a boon to forming and leading teams. Odds are that, if i put together a Numina, at the appropriate point I can just say "perez, atlas, steel, kings, skyway" and everyone will know what that means.
My aversion to leading is a combination of the times I do volunteer, something horrible happens offline which means I have to bail in the first ten minutes, or I just spend so much time trying to organize and get things sorted I forget to have fun because I'm worried about everyone else (I get high strung when I'm worried about the experience of others).
But it's usually the first, which is getting creepy.
I do love teaming, though, even if I can't get it started myself. So while I build to solo now so I don't have to worry about not being able to do anything without teams, I'm usually eager to get on any that go 'hey, you wanna?'
The idea of waiting an hour for a team is absurd! We do have it good. I'm so glad we have the LFG channel too.
In the room the women come and go
Talking of Michelangelo.
I love the team finding tools that we have available in this game, and the community on Virtue who are up for joining PUGs as they form.
I've formed task force teams during the Aussie weekday evenings (the absolute low point of the daily cycle) without much fuss, just using global channels and a bit of searching. It'll be even easier now with the new LFG channel. It's great.
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Ah so the hyperbole you were referring to was being used by those in that subgroup we were talking about. I misunderstood.
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Originally Posted by Aggelakis
And I'll disagree with that, too. It is hyperbole. Those are just stupid people. Those people aren't actually seeking a team (that implies effort), they want one to fall onto their game screen. To say they're having to wait upwards of an hour to "find a team" is hyperbole - they aren't even ATTEMPTING to find a team, not truly. If they actually looked around to get a team, they would have little to no problem. On any server.
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Minutes or hours... The Internet got me so used to instant gratification I can't stand to wait for more than seconds nowadays.
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How flexible are you as to what you will do? If you mean, "get a team to do anything" then perhaps. But try to get a team for say a Moonfire when it isn't the WST and you're not willing to put it together yourself.|
Originally Posted by Aggelakis
I rarely form my own teams (though I have no issue with doing so if I wanted to) and have literally never waited for more than 20-30 mintes, let alone "hours", on any server that I have a presence on. (Every formerly-NA server.) Hyperbole isn't good to utilize as an argument.
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Assumptions aren't good to use (what the heck does utilize mean that use doesn't) either.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Well if one is willing to put the effort (that includes financial effort for those Freems) into making friends by joining channels, and participating in regular sponsored events (ex. Tanker Tuesdays) then finding people to run specific content is much much easier.|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
How flexible are you as to what you will do? If you mean, "get a team to do anything" then perhaps. But try to get a team for say a Moonfire when it isn't the WST and you're not willing to put it together yourself.
Assumptions aren't good to use (what the heck does utilize mean that use doesn't) either. |
However if one is just going to sit like a lump waiting for invitations to be sent on a silver platter then one has no right to complain nor deserve any sympathy.
I am always stunned when I hop into a brand new MMO and find... "Oh, no play up play down option (super-sidekicking)." Meh.
@bpphantom
The Defenders of Paragon
KGB Special Section 8
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Side-kicking is considered tantamount to cheating in some circles. I don't personally care for it much myself. Exemplaring exists in other games, which is much more reasonable IMO.
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Originally Posted by bpphantom
I am always stunned when I hop into a brand new MMO and find... "Oh, no play up play down option (super-sidekicking)." Meh.
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The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Well it's all the same now, but I'd settle for exemplaring. Still, I've yet to find another MMO that offers it.
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Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Side-kicking is considered tantamount to cheating in some circles. I don't personally care for it much myself. Exemplaring exists in other games, which is much more reasonable IMO.
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@bpphantom
The Defenders of Paragon
KGB Special Section 8
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Everquest II has it. It's called mentoring there. And it works better IMO because you can do it solo for anything you want.
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Originally Posted by bpphantom
Well it's all the same now, but I'd settle for exemplaring. Still, I've yet to find another MMO that offers it.
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The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
Well, the way I see it, side-kicking removes the sense of progression that makes these games fun IMO. I still remember when I first got stepped foot in Founders Falls and Brickstown. This was very early in the game and there wasn't anyone to SK to for the most part. The sense of earning your way somewhere new is fun to me.
Now, level is just a number you make bigger so you get more toys. That's OK for what it is, but I feel that the game has lost something.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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I really have ZERO problem with that as long as you keep that feeling to yourself and don't try to "inflict" that on everyone else too. All that means is side-kicking in COX is GREAT and the choice to do it or not to do it belongs with the individual AND is NOT CHEATING.
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Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Well, the way I see it, side-kicking removes the sense of progression that makes these games fun IMO. I still remember when I first got stepped foot in Founders Falls and Brickstown. This was very early in the game and there wasn't anyone to SK to for the most part. The sense of earning your way somewhere new is fun to me.
Now, level is just a number you make bigger so you get more toys. That's OK for what it is, but I feel that the game has lost something. |
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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Naw, see that really doesn't fly. If there was an "I Win" button in the game that would immediately give you a level 50 with 2 Billion influence, you don't get to say, "You have the choice not to use it." The game is meaningless if you don't have to play the game.|
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
I really have ZERO problem with that as long as you keep that feeling to yourself and don't try to "inflict" that on everyone else too. All that means is side-kicking in COX is GREAT and the choice to do it or not to do it belongs with the individual AND is NOT CHEATING.
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It's like your objections (well-founded IMO) against the more pay-to-win aspects of the Marketplace. We always have a choice not to buy purple enhancers, or super-packs or those ridiculous Amplifiers they have on test. But that doesn't mean that including all those things isn't moving the game towards pay to win.
Side-kicking is orders of degrees away from those, but it does (mildly) cheapen the experience just by existing. This is why many developers have rejected the concept immediately.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
Yeah, that's super weird. First time I ever see that particular argument about sidekicking. Seems like something marketing wants you to believe so you can take more time to see the entire game and hence either keep that sub going for longer or increase your chances to drop dollars on their cash shop in a F2P.
To claim any CoH concept that isn't immediately adapted by a select few ultra popular MMOs is rejected by everyone is kind of weird too as, first, hardly anyone has ever heard of CoH, and second, these particular MMOs are in the business of printing money and build their worlds to be as addicting as possible rather than inherently interesting.
I can see why Sidekicking may not appear in other MMO genre's but in my opinion it is an integral facet of the super hero universe. I'd be upset if it wasn't encouraged in this type of game.
I usually don't form teams just because I feel like I'm terrible at it. Other players usually are able to put a team together much faster than I can for some reason.
I also dislike doing trials or being on teams/leagues with leaders like those Toast mentioned. I get that some of the content requires a certain approach, and my first time out, I'm fine with some direction, but there's a difference between guiding people and either hand-holding or barking orders.