Why the hate for melee Incarnates?
Tyrant's 'crackle' isn't really a patch of death in the same style as the Battle Maiden blue and MoM pink. Those two last a good bit, the latter actually growing. Tyrant pulses for a few seconds and then it's done until the next crackle. Yes, you have to run out. But you don't have to STAY out of the area. It's so brief that I really question the usefulness of taunting him out of it.
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@Inquisitor
Tyrant's 'crackle' isn't really a patch of death in the same style as the Battle Maiden blue and MoM pink. Those two last a good bit, the latter actually growing. Tyrant pulses for a few seconds and then it's done until the next crackle. Yes, you have to run out. But you don't have to STAY out of the area. It's so brief that I really question the usefulness of taunting him out of it.
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Have you run it on live? Because when I ran it, the damage ticks continually as long as the lightning graphics exist, and for a couple ticks after it goes away. And the lightning seems to be in existence about half the time. It seems functionally the same as the patches in the Apex trial, and other than not growing, the same as MoM. Maybe it was different on test?
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@Inquisitor
I don't believe it's just a matter of perception. I'm fairly certain that the aura is going off close to half the time on average.
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Edit: Because I misspelled the word 'It.'
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@Inquisitor
I think it's a false dichotomy anyway. Certainly there are other options between "patches of instant death" and "10x as many hitpoints as a normal AV". If the devs truly can't come up with anything other than those two options, maybe we need some more creative devs.
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It could be variable I suppose. But I'm positive that once we had the fight down well enough for me to really pay attention to the length it was only a few seconds. Perhaps it continues ticking as long as there are player targets in the area (making it a real PUG punisher.)
Edit: Because I misspelled the word 'It.' |
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I think it's a false dichotomy anyway. Certainly there are other options between "patches of instant death" and "10x as many hitpoints as a normal AV". If the devs truly can't come up with anything other than those two options, maybe we need some more creative devs.
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Why do the devs only ever use this one "danger patch" mechanic and never think of any of those other things? They need to be more creative, those bums!
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Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
I play both ranged and melee characters, so I don't have any axe to grind either way. The main reason the patches of death exist is that most melee incarnates are pretty much invincible. The AVs stand there clobbering us with massive attacks, yet we suffer almost no damage.
Most melee characters can punch out Tyrant's face for 20 minutes and are never damaged by his direct attacks. Only the crackling air does any serious damage, and only if you neglect to skip out of it.
This is the tradeoff: the devs would have to either make the AVs' direct attacks powerful enough to threaten us, or add attacks that will cut through our ridiculously high defenses but which we can avoid in some way.
They've chosen the latter, giving us fair warning with Marauder's attack, the rings with BAF and the patches most every other trial. Since the patches do DoT and we can generally flee them, it's a much more benign mechanic than constantly getting one-shot by the AV.
However, I agree that they've greatly overdone the patches of death thing. It's annoying that the action we're required to take in nearly all these cases is to just run away. That's very unimaginative.
But they've already used consumable inspirations that protect us from massive attacks (with Hamidon), and they have half a zillion temp powers that we need for a variety of gimmicks (like Reichsman, and Marauder, and the pillars of light, etc.).
Running away is the least onerous of these options, because it doesn't require any extra knowledge or monkeying with inspirations or temp powers.
As you point out, this patches-of-death problem has existed for almost two years now. If teams would learn to taunt the targets out of the death patches, instead of just standing there, it wouldn't be a problem, now, would it?
In fact, that's been part of the learning curve for Magisterium. Leagues I've watched have discovered, miraculously, that you can do a lot more damage per second to Tyrant if you taunt him out of the lightning patches and keep fighting instead of scattering, letting him heal back up, and starting in again. It's not my job to tell other people how to play their characters, but I hold in silent contempt any tanker, and just about any brute, that can't fit a level 10 power, that requires no slots, into their build somewhere by level 49. For it to be so common not to do so that none of the tanks on a 24 person league have it? Inexcusable. It'd be no different, in my opinion, if you skipped all of your defensive toggles and then complained that the game was hard. Taunt isn't just an aggro management power, it moves mobs around the map. Learn to use it. |
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Re: Why the hate for melee incarnates?
The reason is easy enough to see in this very thread: public perception.
Look at how many answers are saying melee characters can steamroll the game without a thought - as if, at least that's what I assume is implied, buff/debuff characters couldn't do the same thing with even more ease, and save for some melee outliers, more efficiently.
At the same time, that superior performance isn't as passive so there's much disparity between a good player and a bad player playing a buff/debuff AT, whereas melee tends to be more even; which means at the lower end of the scale, which is, let's face it, most people, you're going to have melee outperforming ranged, and hence that perception.
Bottomline... It's not going to change. Just alt some ranged stuff and enjoy the uberness, in both itrials and normal content.
How about AVs that can't be hurt unless you kill something else near them? Or AVs that heal by eating other enemies (which you can destroy before they heal)? Or AVs that get more regen when their health gets low? Or AVs that heal when a player with a special effect on him dies? Or AVs that can heal at special machines (which players can destroy to prevent healing)? Or AVs that have constant spawning ambushes? Or AVs that can only be killed if other AVs are killed about the same time? Or AVs that move around occasionally and have large ambush waves chasing after the players? Or AVs that can hold if you hold people if someone maintains aggro too long? Or AVs that drain away level shifts? Or AVs that Teleport? Or AVs that target people on a team and will hit them with a dangerous effect if they don't move (or react in some other way)?
Why do the devs only ever use this one "danger patch" mechanic and never think of any of those other things? They need to be more creative, those bums! ![]() |
I play both ranged and melee characters, so I don't have any axe to grind either way. The main reason the patches of death exist is that most melee incarnates are pretty much invincible. The AVs stand there clobbering us with massive attacks, yet we suffer almost no damage.
Most melee characters can punch out Tyrant's face for 20 minutes and are never damaged by his direct attacks. Only the crackling air does any serious damage, and only if you neglect to skip out of it. This is the tradeoff: the devs would have to either make the AVs' direct attacks powerful enough to threaten us, or add attacks that will cut through our ridiculously high defenses but which we can avoid in some way. |
Using a melee quite often, I haven't found my melee not fighting in melee. Fight in melee, get a few chains off, back off, then back into melee, repeat.
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Personally, I'm not a fan of the patch(es) (accumulated into one so large that even ranged toons have to move back for at least five seconds) but as long as you start moving before it actually animates, it's not always instant death (even though its pretty dang close). Plus there's gaps in the patch that you can weave through to get back to attacking faster than just waiting the patches out.
I've had toons (2 Controllers and a Crab) only take approx 2100 points of damage (plus AoE based DoTs) before scrambling out into fresh air.
This is where having an organized team and/or the proper Destinies comes in handy.
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Personally, I won't take a squishy within 60 feet of Tyrant, but it's not because of his lightning flow. His Hammer of Justice is absolutely brutal. Why there is a warning for his wimpy eye beams and not this is a mystery to me.
Returning to the Lightning Flows, on two trials now I've avoided all but a single tick from it by hovering high above the ground. It seems that it's only spawning on the ground.
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I actually like fighting the latter, but putting the two together makes for an incredibly unpleasant playing experience. (Especially since every league I've been on has failed once we get Tyrant to the 40% mark.)