Why the hate for melee Incarnates?
By
8_Ball,
Posted on: 2012-06-02 08:08 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Quote:
Completely disagree. All the MMOs like City that are filled to the brim with soloable content are struggling, and the Industry Leader that puts out raid after raid has two orders of magnitude more subscribers.
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I was on my first non-farm Magisterium today and all I can say is, "Huh?" On a scrapper I was easily able to ride the lightning *guitar wail* out in melee range by just positioning myself so I wasn't in more than two patches. Tyrant's hittable area is absolutely massive, if you're anywhere near him you can target him with melee attacks. I don't see how you could fail this trial due to too much melee without also failing it due to too little debuff, which is really more important in the first place. If you don't have rebirth radial epiphany, well, that's your problem. This is currently the ultimate trial, deal with it.
Nihilii, in my experience it simply isn't true that the really incredible "squishy" combos are more generally useful than a SS/FA in the hands of a highly skilled player. Is a fire/cold a more desirable teammate in most cases? Absolutely. Can a fire/cold solo most AVs? Of course. Can a fire/cold do it completely off the cuff with no set-up and no regard for what other enemies may be around? This is where they falter. Remember that trials don't just throw around untyped damage patches for meleers, they throw around unusual controls with pernicious durations. They throw around constantly spawning enemies in such quantity that you cannot reasonably expect the league's meleers to keep all of the aggro off of you. For that matter, while your meleers are scattering in terror from the very concept of harm they're even less effective than usual at watching your back.
To summarize, let me get out my incredibly tiny violin and play a stirring dirge for the fact that you can't just sit still and take it like before.
Quote:
I don't see that correlation at all. For one thing, just because WoW contains high end raids doesn't mean most of their player population participates in them. For another thing, for basically its entire history both WoW insiders and outside observers have claimed that compared to the industry as a whole, particularly when it first arrived, it was far more friendly to solo players, and that friendliness has generally been increased monotonically upward over time. There's evidence to suggest that most MMO players solo at least some of the time and the most casual of players are the ones most likely to solo more often. I've also seen discussion revolving on the fine point that casual players may solo more often not because they want to solo, but because they aren't attracted to the teaming opportunities that happen to exist, and would rather go their own way. Outside of subjective discussion, the only quantitative analyses I've seen over the years support the notion that solo play is far more prevalent than generally presumed, and often demonstrated to be more than half of all playing time.|
Originally Posted by Venture
Completely disagree. All the MMOs like City that are filled to the brim with soloable content are struggling, and the Industry Leader that puts out raid after raid has two orders of magnitude more subscribers.
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And while WoW seems to increase support for the solo experience over time, conversely there's every reason to believe that had City of Heroes not catered to the more casual, more likely to solo playerbase that its early structural problems would have doomed it. It seems perverse to say that the solo content in CoH hurts it, when it might be the only reason its still alive at all.
WoW is a social MMO, but I think the vast majority of its social aspect is an out-of-band phenomenon: WoW reached a critical mass quickly, and began to amass players not because of its gameplay, but because of its players: people played WoW because they knew people who played WoW. But even among them, teaming was not necessarily the dominant mode of play.
I suspect Mr. T is responsible for more WoW subscribers than high end raids are.
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I suspect that if there's a developer conspiracy against melee incarnates, its genesis is in the fact that there are a lot more of them than there are squishies. I know I had a lot easier time dealing with the various EBs in the Alpha unlock missions on my Scrappers and Brutes than I did on my Corrupters and Controllers, and it's almost impossible to form a pick-up trial without a disproportionate amount of melee.
With that in mind, it makes a certain amount of sense to me that they would create challenges that impact melee incarnates.
Melee guys also shine in a lot of places that leave support and ranged guys feeling pretty worthless. The Grenades and Acids segment of the LAM comes to mind, or dealing with the warehouses full of mobs on a Keyes. Most trials seem to have a portion that's tailor-made for one type of toon over another; it makes sense to me that there would be corresponding moments of weakness during some stages of some trials.
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