Hybrid I am disappoint
By
Agent White,
Posted on: 2012-06-02 07:40 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
i actually never considered .5 end/sec really heavy compared to many other powers that we have which use double that base
superior invis, hot feet, choking cloud, venemous gas, and a few others use around 1.04 end/sec at base and even at ED capped end reduction still use around .54 end/sec
focused accuracy uses .78 end/sec base and its effect is MUCH less than the hybrid powers lol
i also agree that incarnate powers are supposed to make our characters stronger, and even if hybrid was a perma toggle it wouldnt be able to really do that much even if they continued to give the passive boost along with the ability to perma toggle
I'm just gonna retract something... I like Destiny & I never should've compared it to Hybrid, I'm just gonna go with Hybrid sucks.
My Lego Models http://www.flickr.com/photos/30369639@N07/ lemur lad: God you can't be that stupid... I'm on at the same time as you for once, and not 20 minutes into it you give me something worth petitioning?Lady-Dee: Hey my fat keeps me warm in the winter and shady in the summer.
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I wish there was an option to keep Destiny perma at its weakest level.
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Originally Posted by Robo_Knight
I like Destiny, but not in the way that it was implemented. IE, I already have over a dozen powers that I have to keep track of, having another 1 to click on is just starting to get annoying.
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Princess Darkstar - Proud Member of the Handprints of Union, the #1 ranked SG in Europe!
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!
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Originally Posted by Aggelakis
PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"
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I think part of the problem was that in it's initial form (IIRC) the bonus' weren't that great, so it didn't seem worth that endurance cost. If the bonus' started at they are now most people would probably have welcomed it.|
Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master
i actually never considered .5 end/sec really heavy compared to many other powers that we have which use double that base
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The real reason it became a click though was because some builds would have been able to run it without a second thought which they felt was against their goal, but the people who mentioned that were given a lot of backup by those who didn't like the end cost (And I should state that initially I was one of those, but I expected it to be reduced and not completely changed!).
Princess Darkstar - Proud Member of the Handprints of Union, the #1 ranked SG in Europe!
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!
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Originally Posted by Aggelakis
PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"
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Which is a result of your bias, not anything I wrote.
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Why, yes. I do indeed hear negativity.
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The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
I'm thinking of a number between 1 and hybrid sucks!
Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.
So far I'm disappointed the most for my MM. It seems as if the only Hybrid that works on them like all hybrids do on none pet classes is Support (don't need it). If I want Assault (which I do) I have to activate the powers then cast and buff my pets before they get any buff....WTH. It takes my MM over 30 seconds to do that, plus I need to do this every 4 minutes? Umm, there are 3 ATs that use pet's as a PRIMARY power choice and they have all gotten the shaft with hybrid, MM being the worse by far.
anyway, since gooshgooshybrid isn't going to change to anything useful or worthwhile I guess everyone will have bioarmor to look forward to.
... brb bio
Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.
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I pick Incarnate powers to fit a theme or need for my characters. Most of them I have not yet actually worked up to the point where they need such. One of them is changing Alphas from Spiritual to another path once I finally get around to re-tweaking freaking Stone Armor.|
Originally Posted by AkuTenshiiZero
I didn't follow the beta. I didn't even know what Hybrid was supposed to be in the first place. The first I knew about the powers was when they went live.
And I think they're pretty crap. They're weaker Destinies. Yeah, they're stronger than any pre-incarnate stuff...But we're over halfway through the Incarnate slots and thus far not much has proven to be impressive. I'm still waiting for the amazing power the devs were talking about, so far we've gotten things that could have been awesome if not for poor balancing. Really, who's going to pick Cryonic or Vorpal over "I nuke the world without aiming" Ion? Has anyone ever used Incandescence? And now this letdown. |
My main character took Nerve, despite being a Crab and not really needing the accuracy bonus, for the +20% enhanced defense offered on the Radial side. She's sticking with Nerve despite it being suboptimal because, well, she's had it for so long it might as well have grafted itself to her buff bar. She also has Diamagnetic, LONGBOW, and Ageless. So, the only 'overpowered' thing she has from Incarnates currently is Ion Radial Final Judgement. Why? because Fire, Ice, and Void just didn't feel right. She's never in melee, and no other power she has uses fire or cold, so those two would have looked completely out of place. Ion, well, it's easier to justify a cyborg backpack shooting lightning.
I'm sure that I'll be taking powers that make sense for the characters that get them once I get up there, like Vorpal on my TW brute.
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Originally Posted by Kangstor
All of these were told in beta forums over and over again both in feedback thread and in thread that AH opened up to provide what hybrid will be. Despite all of the negative opinion about it all we could force to happen was adding a passive boost and at that point people gave up (including myself) and as a result hybrid got into live with its half-back.side.you.know.where state.
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Yeah, but metrics don't work unless you care about them.
The developers knew how people feel about Hybrid. They simply were not willing/able to give them what they wanted. The VIP betas are an over-glorified stress test. They don't bring us in at an early enough stage where it's viable to drastically rework something if it turns out we don't like it and do it right. If they don't get it right in the one pass, tough for us. I could almost hear the grumbling from the guys setting the schedule when they decided to attempt the initial changes to Hybrid because people weren't digging Assault, wanted more front loading in Melee and Control wasn't very controlling. After that, I could see why they said "aw **** it, we going live with this whether they like it or not." To reiterate: The problem is not in our ability to give good feedback, nor is it in their ability to receive it. Nor is it in the data and metrics we provide, and it's probably not in how they interpret that. |
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Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar
I think part of the problem was that in it's initial form (IIRC) the bonus' weren't that great, so it didn't seem worth that endurance cost. If the bonus' started at they are now most people would probably have welcomed it.
The real reason it became a click though was because some builds would have been able to run it without a second thought which they felt was against their goal, but the people who mentioned that were given a lot of backup by those who didn't like the end cost (And I should state that initially I was one of those, but I expected it to be reduced and not completely changed!). |
Hybrid is a funny power.
No, think about it for a second. Hybrid was never intended to provide a constant bonus. Testing brought to light the fact that there are builds that can MAKE the bonus constant in the initial state it had.
Revamp goes through, secondary phase testing starts, people are not satisfied.
Tertiary form comes out, and it both provides a constant bonus AND has spikes of extra utility.
The Hybrid slot power became a hybrid of intent and desire. Intent was for a power that can only be used sometimes and must be considered carefully, whereas player desire was for something that provides a constant benefit like Alphas, and t4 Destiny, and Interface procs.
Hybrid not only turns some builds into a hybrid, it is ITSELF a hybrid power.
What, nobody else finds that funny? I mean, it's not ironic except in the way that many people falsely define irony, but it's at least something to chuckle over.
Bah! I'll snag support on my crab and pop it during tough spots in a trial where her 50.3% AoE defense needs shoring up to 58.3%, or maybe I'll say fuckit and have her grab Melee despite not having a single melee power other than Brawl and Boxing so she can off-tank an AV or three. Or maybe I'll even toss out Combat jumping and save Support for when I NEED the softcap, and that way I can have more than 6 attack powers, even if one will be underslotted...I have Nerve to make up for missing accuracy afterall. Heck, I could junk Combat Jumping right now, actually. I'd still be [barely] above the softcap for normal content without it, and Support would provide nearly double the benefit of CJ at a decreased uptime percentage.
Hybrid has awesome potential for builds, you people just aren't seeing it because you're already minimaxed to the gills and unwilling to look at it from the perspective of someone who is actually unsatisfied with how their build has turned out in order to get to where they are currently. Yeah, it's a BAD idea to minmax based on Incarnate powers since you'll occasionally want to run lower-level content, but that just means more challenge.
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Sorry devs - but 0.5 end/sec was their idea of a high end cost in the first place??|
Originally Posted by Kangstor
It was a permaable toggle when it was first introduced in VIP beta with a 0.5 end/sec.
I will be damned if I ever give my feedback in beta ever after that. |
No wonder Hybrid is so godawful!!
And.. yeah.... "-200% regen is too high" : "okay nerf the entire set" comes to mind, granted that was only feedback from people who hadn't actually tested a thing.
-Proud leader of Captain Planet's Magical Friends
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Feedback is only acted on when it matches with what the devs want in the first place. The feedback threads are just an illusion.
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Originally Posted by Virusman
Sorry devs - but 0.5 end/sec was their idea of a high end cost in the first place??
No wonder Hybrid is so godawful!! And.. yeah.... "-200% regen is too high" : "okay nerf the entire set" comes to mind, granted that was only feedback from people who hadn't actually tested a thing. |
Princess Darkstar - Proud Member of the Handprints of Union, the #1 ranked SG in Europe!
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!
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Originally Posted by Aggelakis
PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"
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Personally, I think reality lies somewhere between "devs are slaves to opinionated posters" and "feedback threads are an illusion". We've seen lots of changes happen directly due to player feedback; we've also seen lots of changes NOT happen despite player feedback. Synapse and Arbiter Hawk have said and shown that they consider what players have to say and sometimes act on it directly, but they also have opinions of their own and sometimes put their foot down against ideas they strongly disagree with.
Also, Melee Core Embodiment + Resilient Total Core Revamp lets my /FA brute get capped S/L resist with only a few enemies nearby, which is pretty cool 
You know, the more I think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that Hybrid is the key to making non-granite Stone armor work properly, rather than having Stone be a set that is only taken for the tier 9.
I mean, outside of Granite, Stone armor has the best Psi defense in the standard game. People just throw that away because it doesn't work with Granite.
Time to investigate.
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maybe but only for half-time even if you are right about it and even if you switch between granite and hybrid+other options it means you will be clicking more power than usual every 2 minute.
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Originally Posted by Lady_of_Ysgard
You know, the more I think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that Hybrid is the key to making non-granite Stone armor work properly, rather than having Stone be a set that is only taken for the tier 9.
I mean, outside of Granite, Stone armor has the best Psi defense in the standard game. People just throw that away because it doesn't work with Granite. Time to investigate. |
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Nothing like a tank that only works 50% of the time ...
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Originally Posted by Lady_of_Ysgard
You know, the more I think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that Hybrid is the key to making non-granite Stone armor work properly, rather than having Stone be a set that is only taken for the tier 9.
I mean, outside of Granite, Stone armor has the best Psi defense in the standard game. People just throw that away because it doesn't work with Granite. Time to investigate. |
Princess Darkstar - Proud Member of the Handprints of Union, the #1 ranked SG in Europe!
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!
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Originally Posted by Aggelakis
PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"
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Lady-Dee: Hey my fat keeps me warm in the winter and shady in the summer.