Suggestions & Ideas: Where Both Come to Die

So a general perception is that this Suggestions & Ideas section of the boards is a completely fruitless place to post anything that an actual employee of Paragon Studios might notice, and given that when the dev's want players suggestion & ideas they totally bypass this area and post in the General forum, you'd have to say there's weight to that that belief.

So my question is, shouldn't this just be removed and let suggestions migrate to individual servers, or the general area where valid ideas would get a much wider swath of support?
Isn't this section just the equivalent to Forum Games, as a place to vent that doesn't add anything to the game?

What's more it would seem ironic that things that have made it into the game over the recent years like power customization and proliferation for example, were often repeatedly dismissed and heckled when they were brought up in this part of the boards.

So isn't Suggestions & Ideas just the place where essentially both come to die, or can it be improved in some way?

The devs do actually come to the Suggestions forums.

I recently sent a message to Arbiter Hawk to check out powerset ideas I posted, and he had already read them.

I think they probably don't post here much because people would pounce on them and bury them in questions about their own suggestions.

Trickshooter's Characters | @Trickshooter @Brightside

having seen many notions from this forum work their way into the game over the years, I must disagree with the OP's thesis.


But that didn't stop the thread title from giving me a morning chuckle.

=D

Here is the relevant thread I started on the subject of Regen buffs:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=262616

Coincidentally, I posted that the day AFTER Closed Beta started for Issue 21 (the issue the buffs appeared in). I was not invited to the Closed Beta, so I had no idea about the implementation of the buffs until August 9th, when it entered Open Beta. I also had no idea that Brutes were getting Regeneration ported to them when I posted it.

Also, to give credit where it is due, several other people in that thread made some very good suggestions to tweak the original idea or add something that I had overlooked.

I do not know if the implementation of those buffs occurred prior to Closed Beta or after. I also posted a less fleshed out suggestion 6 months earlier in December of 2010.

No developer posted in either thread, and yet Regen got buffs that were very similar to things suggested in the two threads I posted.

It proves nothing conclusively, but it does suggest that the devs DO read this forum to get ideas about things at least.

I recall reading a very well thought out and written suggestion about a form of Bio Armor, and apparently we are getting something like that soon.

I post my suggestions (and believe me I've posted quite a few) here simply to say I did. I got the idea out of my head and into public view in the hopes that the devs see something they like and make it a reality.

Not every idea is great but even the bad ones can lead to inspiration for something grand. But even if the suggestions aren't acted upon it doesn't make this forum useless. Sometimes there's just limitations whether technical or financial that can hold back even the greatest of ideas.

I have about 20 suggestions in this forum over the years. At least one became reality (whether inspired by my suggestion or not). I feel this forum has it's place whether we posters see our ideas implemented or not.

Strikingly absent from the dissecting of my OP was anyone commenting on the fact that when the devs themselves want players suggestions they choose not to create those threads here, in the, um, Suggestions and Ideas area.

Stalwarts would amply that it's a simi-important part of funneling players input into the game, whereas a lot of forum going players see it as being closer to this threads title. Who's right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oldeb List of items first appearing as player suggestions before being added to the game.

Yes though looking down the list I see a number of those I remember originating from areas that had nothing to do with this Suggestions & Ideas area of the boards.

A huge number of the suggestions on that list you linked originated from specific Archetype sections of the boards or betas, Ice Melee's buff for example came from Tundara in the tanker area, the same thing with Blasters and Defiance, Tankers and Gauntlet, animation times, Domination, melee kb to kd, Burn, Rage, Voltaic Sentinel, Elude, I could go on and on and on.
If the old boards still existed, and I had infinite free time, I could probably go line by line through that list and point to a main thread where a suggestion originated that wouldn't end up being Suggestions & Ideas.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyriani I feel this forum has it's place whether we posters see our ideas implemented or not.

That's a valid point, though if you knew you could post a good idea in an area where a dev might have a higher possibility of seeing it wouldn't you just go there?

The fact that Paragon Studio people post and reply considerably more in the General Discussions area then here is likely why suggestions-idea threads are created there all the time and without being modded.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill Pointing out information from the devs, such as the above, is not "dismissing" or "heckling." Neither is criticizing, despite what some people may want to think.

When it becomes a looping echo that doesn't reach the I've thoroughly said my piece it's just a higher plain of lulz, right? I mean it happens no?

It's an area that's about imagination and ingenuity put to text often for debate, that gets a fair share of modding.
There's a degree of passion in some people over the Suggestions and Ideas area, no getting around that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect I posted a suggestion a while back regarding Regeneration getting some minor buffs. Shortly afterward, Regeneration got some minor buffs. Not especially compelling evidence in and of itself, but the minor buffs Regeneration got were almost exactly what I had suggested, down to the actual numbers being very close. Does it mean *I* got Regen buffed? Not necessarily, and I'm not claiming that I did. But it does suggest that they had read my suggestion thread at the very least.

I'm honestly not being a jerk, but weren't there long running threads in the scrapper section, and general to some extent, by Evilgeko among hosts of others forever talking about Regen buff suggestions?

The devs may have used your idea posted in this area, but as you say the thread was posted after they already had implemented at least the rough phase of their changes to regen on beta.

Either way, I don't think even you would claim the devs could only possibly have come here for whatever player input that might have inspired their decisions on regen, since the topic was everywhere on the boards for years.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forbin_Project Rewriting history is probably another reason the devs infrequently respond to threads in this section. Far too often people twist what the devs actually posted/said to fit their own agendas and then get angry and defensive when they get confronted with what was actually said.

It's hard to read into their motives, but they will post in other areas like General and of course betas, which is now basically open to everyone, and their quotes from those instances get highlighted in any number of threads, three that are current I could point to right now off the top of my head.

Rarely do they ever visit this area with their input, even with something as generic and noncommittal as a variation on "that's a neat idea", like they do in beta (of course), and general discussion and even occasionally in the ATs sections among others.


In short aside from the Mods, ps/ncsoft employees at best infrequently have a presence here in Suggestions & Ideas, and when they want our ideas they don't come here for them.

I asked can it be improved, but I guess like Greece if a plurality think things are fine, any ideas to enhance it would likely come here to um, die.

Anyone may demand answers from the gods.
Getting them is another matter.
Thus has it always been.

We read much, much more than we post.

Arbiter Warrant, thanks for letting us know that S&I is being monitored.

(At one time, when it was moved from one section of the fora to another, I vaguely recall that we were told in fairly explicit terms by the then-OCR team that S&I was intended primarily for forumites' amusement, not as an actual source of in-game suggestions. This was years and years ago, now.)

Arcanaville did a good job of summing up how I believe forumites (and devs) should use this forum. One point that bears quoting for emphasis:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanaville But its important to note that the primary purpose of the forums is to allow players to discuss the game with other players. Its secondary purpose is to interact with the devs.

Too many forumites, especially in the past several years, have taken to viewing the fora as a means for reshaping the game, whether through complaining about development decisions they dislike or, more constructively, by proposing different development ideas. Those things are fine to do, but when we do them, we should recognize that we are doing so to receive validation (or rejection) from other players, not because we expect the game to change based on them.

***

Aside from Elusivity, here are some other Suggestions from the S&I forum (circa 2006) that made it into the game:

- Revamping Faultline, Dark Astoria, and the Rikti Crash Site.

- Putting a contact who gives repeatable missions in Rikti Crash Site.

- Rikti Pylons that can be destroyed to knock down the shield around the Rikti ship.

- Fighting a Riktified Hero 1 at the climax of the Rikti Crash Site story.

And those are just off the top of my head.

I can believe some of these were independently thought up by players and developers, but I remember posts discussing systems so similar to, say, the pylon system we have now that it leaves little doubt in my mind that the devs got them from this forum.

It is good to hear that it is being read (again?).