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you rarely see free/premium players in the game and all of them who i have met and even hearing from friends who know free/premium players say that that being free/premium player sucks, yes you can level up to 50 and join teams, but what good of a teammate are you when your crummy SOs are barely letting you defeat a small group of con-yellow NPCs? and dont get me started on actual free players who cant join supergroups or send private messeges, you simply can not enjoy this game without putting some cash into it. and therefore no reason to try and hype up F2P if you barely get any freedom. |
Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
Still amazed how people want more more more..for nothing. The ONE thing I hate about the Freedom model is the incessant whining of people who don't pay anything yet expect almost everything. |
Simply allowing free players or just premiums players the ability to use IOs wount hurt in any way, but only improve it for everyone.
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it doesnt necessaraly "encourage" you to go VIP as it well forces you to, yes its free 2 play but you have to pay 2 win, theres nothing really good about playing free if your not having fun.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
So you mean that their current premium/freebie set up encouraged you to go VIP?
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| wish I could return to the CoH before freedom |
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Originally Posted by Sparkly Soldier
But you can, by subscribing as a VIP. It's the same price as before.
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You get 400 free points per month to spend on whatever. You get a free server transfer (which would have cost you $10 if you weren't subscribed). You get free access to Going Rogue and the SSAs ($35 and $70 respectively)
Between JUST the free points and the server transfer, if you are paying in blocks of a year...the devs are actually paying YOU to play the game. That's because the stuff you get for free would cost you more than the price of your subscription if you decided to play for free.
So, if you're one of the people whining that you don't get enough for FREE: Just......shut up. You're being an idiot.
I direct you to as recently as 9 months ago.
What did you get from Paragon Studios for free then?
That's right....you got NOTHING. No pay = no play.
But, you can now play the game without spending a single red cent on it..which you could never do before.
And that's not enough?!?!?
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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Some money. A couple bucks here and there.|
Originally Posted by PoisonHeart
you simply can not enjoy this game without putting some cash into it. and therefore no reason to try and hype up F2P if you barely get any freedom.
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As opposed to 4-8 year vets. Some of whom have spent $700-$1400 in sub fees over the past few years.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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Really? |
Originally Posted by PoisonHeart
it doesnt necessaraly "encourage" you to go VIP as it well forces you to, yes its free 2 play but you have to pay 2 win, theres nothing really good about playing free if your not having fun.
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They came to your house and put a gun to your head?
And it's not a free to play game. It never was, and it was never marketed as one.
It's a subscription game that happens to have a free play option.
Tell me....how much do you get for free at say....a movie theater? How many video games does Walmart give you without charging?
How much do you get for $0 in ANY type of entertainment other than online gaming?
The above attitude just baffles me. How the hell can someone feel justified about complaining that they aren't given enough stuff for absolutely $0 out of their pocket?
You weren't forced to resubscribe. You chose to do so of your own volition. Being forced to would imply that you had no choice in the matter. But you had 3 choices: Subscribe, play for free, and go play something else instead. You chose to subscribe.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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I played the game for years before IO's came out.|
Originally Posted by PoisonHeart
you rarely see free/premium players in the game and all of them who i have met and even hearing from friends who know free/premium players say that that being free/premium player sucks, yes you can level up to 50 and join teams, but what good of a teammate are you when your crummy SOs are barely letting you defeat a small group of con-yellow NPCs? and dont get me started on actual free players who cant join supergroups or send private messeges, you simply can not enjoy this game without putting some cash into it. and therefore no reason to try and hype up F2P if you barely get any freedom.
Simply allowing free players or just premiums players the ability to use IOs wount hurt in any way, but only improve it for everyone. |
I probably played for 3 months thinking that Steel was high level.
Free players have a ton of content and things to do and can play for a long time. If you ruin the game for them by convincing them that leveling as fast as you can and playing in godmode is what is fun, then you have ruined the game for them - not F2P.
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You're completely full of it.|
Originally Posted by PoisonHeart
you rarely see free/premium players in the game and all of them who i have met and even hearing from friends who know free/premium players say that that being free/premium player sucks
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Not only did I spend a month playing free, I can read the help channel like anyone else.
Premium has its discontents, as it must else why would anyone ever subscribe?
But the basic gameplay is there, and plenty of it.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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I have to agree with this. |
Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
I played the game for years before IO's came out.
I probably played for 3 months thinking that Steel was high level. Free players have a ton of content and things to do and can play for a long time. If you ruin the game for them by convincing them that leveling as fast as you can and playing in godmode is what is fun, then you have ruined the game for them - not F2P. |
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| Simply allowing free players or just premiums players the ability to use IOs wount hurt in any way, but only improve it for everyone |
The more things the devs give away for free, the less incentive there is to give them any money at all. Contrary to what some people seem to believe, games require money to remain active.
Currently, a free player who wants to use IOs has to spend something on the game. Even if it's just the $2 for the license. Give them that for free and suddenly you have a whole lot of people who would have spent $2 spending nothing at all. Give them Incarnate access for free, and an even larger part of the playerbase has no reason to spend any money.
Simple fact: The more you give away for free, the shorter the lifespan of your product will be.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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We get it you don't wanna pay anything... well then that is your choice. Devaluing subscriptions by allowing IO access for free is a stupid business decision. You have several choices: Play as a fremium and invest a little money and purchase an IO license... go VIP... or deal with it. There is no reason to make the entire game FREE... otherwise...within a few months there would be ... no game.
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Originally Posted by PoisonHeart
you rarely see free/premium players in the game and all of them who i have met and even hearing from friends who know free/premium players say that that being free/premium player sucks, yes you can level up to 50 and join teams, but what good of a teammate are you when your crummy SOs are barely letting you defeat a small group of con-yellow NPCs? and dont get me started on actual free players who cant join supergroups or send private messeges, you simply can not enjoy this game without putting some cash into it. and therefore no reason to try and hype up F2P if you barely get any freedom.
Simply allowing free players or just premiums players the ability to use IOs wount hurt in any way, but only improve it for everyone. |
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
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One thing Paragon could do with IOs is perhaps add an option to purchase a permanent license for them in addition to the monthly 'rental' option that exists now. It would obviously cost more but it might persuade some vets (or new players) to pony up and pay where the idea of the monthly fee might put them off (as small as it is).
I'd also agree that the current F2P implementation is basically an open-ended trial and the majority of content you get access to is old and often pretty bad. At least Atlas Park is shiny now. Without vet powers and bonus enhancements I still find the very early levels too slow. I can see a lot of people trying the game (and have heard from some that I know) who simply give up before they get a variety of powers to use because the initial damage and recharge is so low (it varies based on AT and powersets, of course). That's why I think the starter enhancements that were folded into the Paragon Rewards system should be standard for any new character made. It vastly improves the new player experience and would probably entice more people to stick with the game.
Conversely, if Paragon and NCsoft are more interested in retaining vets than getting new players (which may make sense given the age of the game) none of this matters as much.
Mostly I think the hybrid system is meant to keep players subscribed while also enticing them to spend more above and beyond the sub. In other words, they may expect fewer VIPs (subscribers) but are hoping, on average, that they spend more than the $15 a month subscription fee. Given the bazillion Super Packs sold, this may not be a bad expectation!
They could add the current IO license as a rare Superpack drop
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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It wouldn't happen quite THAT fast. |
Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
There is no reason to make the entire game FREE... otherwise...within a few months there would be ... no game.
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It would require at least a year's worth of Paragon giving crappy profit reports NCSoft.
But your basic point is valid. If the devs gave everything away for nothing, the game would cease to exist much sooner than it will with the current business model.
I for one, am fairly satisfied with the VIP/Premium/Free setup. If anything, I think there should be a few more things that are VIP exclusive and Freebies should have a way to communicate easier (coming in i23 from what I understand).
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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The permanent IO license already exists in the game. It costs 27 Paragon Reward tokens to buy. If the OP had really been subbed as long as he implied from I2 to I18 he'd have accumulated 30 reward tokens which is more than enough to get the permanent license.|
Originally Posted by Creole Ned
One thing Paragon could do with IOs is perhaps add an option to purchase a permanent license for them in addition to the monthly 'rental' option that exists now.
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Even if the OP was unsubbed for a year during that time he'd still only be 4-5 tokens short of the license. So his statement that he only really dropped out when GR went live isn't remotely true. His time away from the game had to be at least a year or more.
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Not knowing what NCSoft expects from CoX's current business model would make it hard to determine that future. But i can't imagine them jumping for joy based on the numbers so far. Looks like Freedom gave CoX only a moderate, albeit fleeting, boost in revenue. The GR expansion gave a higher boost and without the benefit of the F2P crowd.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
It wouldn't happen quite THAT fast.
It would require at least a year's worth of Paragon giving crappy profit reports NCSoft. But your basic point is valid. If the devs gave everything away for nothing, the game would cease to exist much sooner than it will with the current business model. |
If it's not grabbing that crowd much, maybe their (free/premium) experience needs to be re-evaluated.
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Freemium gameplay does its job admirably- provide the possibility of extensive exploration of the game world while still holding back some game systems to act as incentives.|
Originally Posted by Pebblebrook
If it's not grabbing that crowd much, maybe their (free/premium) experience needs to be re-evaluated.
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The game is much more populated than when I dropped out a year back, and if Freedom is responsible for the avalanche of content we've gotten then more of that sort of disappointment, please!
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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I team on Freedom a lot since I'm trying to get a Dark/EM Blaster to 50 for occasional RV shenanigans. I'd say about 80% of my team is on an SOd build and in pugs. I've done countless Phalanx TFs with a mix of VIP and premiums. The premiums fought just as well as everyone else since at most one of the VIPs had IOs. We still breezed most content, from Death from Below to Manticore to the odd newspaper and Hollows run. |
Originally Posted by PoisonHeart
you rarely see free/premium players in the game and all of them who i have met and even hearing from friends who know free/premium players say that that being free/premium player sucks, yes you can level up to 50 and join teams, but what good of a teammate are you when your crummy SOs are barely letting you defeat a small group of con-yellow NPCs? and dont get me started on actual free players who cant join supergroups or send private messeges, you simply can not enjoy this game without putting some cash into it. and therefore no reason to try and hype up F2P if you barely get any freedom.
Simply allowing free players or just premiums players the ability to use IOs wount hurt in any way, but only improve it for everyone. |
No one complained about being underpowered. The worst incident was one player who needed a 5-10 minute break to get new SOs and the rest of the players showered them with inf so it wasn't an issue.
There are all of two (maybe three) times where you will need IOs and accolades:
1)PvP, where the extra 200ish HP and set bonuses help a ton;
2)High end content like Incarnate trials where the buffs are fantastic;
3)Speed runs of various TFs where stuff like stealth IOs and sturdier bulds are great.
Outside of that...you can get most Hamis dirt cheap. Peroxis and Endos aren't going for more than a few million and if you can land a few Nucleoli on the cheap those are great too.
The IO licence is $5 for a month. I get some people are on tight budgets, but it is $5. After a month you can decide whether it's worth getting a full sub to see the shiny high level stuff...or you can keep teaming with most players and punch mobs like before. You should also never get booted off a team for not having IOs so...
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
Infinity Villains
Champion, Pinnacle, Virtue Heroes
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Incentives yes, effective in terms of drawing in more revenue? Debatable.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Freemium gameplay does its job admirably- provide the possibility of extensive exploration of the game world while still holding back some game systems to act as incentives.
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Anecdotally, I had a friend sign up for the game to try it out.|
Originally Posted by Pebblebrook
Incentives yes, effective in terms of drawing in more revenue? Debatable.
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So far he's spent $5 to get access to tells and trading/more inf and is going to spend a bit more to get a constume bundle.
I expect there are a lot of "nickle and dimers" out there, that spend a little each month on top of the usual subscribers who carry the freight.
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
Infinity Villains
Champion, Pinnacle, Virtue Heroes
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I'm sure there are...a number of them are probably previous VIPs. But so far it's not showing much.|
Originally Posted by Neuronia
I expect there are a lot of "nickle and dimers" out there, that spend a little each month on top of the usual subscribers who carry the freight.
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Here's the revenue spike from Freedom. Included 4 quarters because the start of it spanned 2 quarters even if it's only a couple weeks before 3Q closed. That 1Q number includes super pack#1
Code:
Qtr Revenue (KrW) Avg Exchange rate (qtr) Revenue (USD) 2Q11 2,787 1085.42165 2,567,666 3Q11 2,812 1082.51283 2,597,660 4Q11 3,435 1147.87098 2,992,497 1Q12 2,890 1132.83473 2,551,122
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Qtr Revenue (KrW) Avg Exchange rate (qtr) Revenue (USD) 2Q10 3,491 1167.69275 2,989,656 3Q10 5,709 1187.31793 4,808,316 4Q10 3,239 1135.05837 2,853,598
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I dropped $30 during the month I played "for free".|
Originally Posted by Pebblebrook
Incentives yes, effective in terms of drawing in more revenue? Debatable.
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The business model works, that's why it's taking over the industry.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Wasn't commenting on the industry...just here in CoX. It's nice you're paying extra...just need even more of that here apparently.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
The business model works, that's why it's taking over the industry.
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Yes, because an 8 year anniversary celebration clearly indicates the game is in terrible shape.|
Originally Posted by Pebblebrook
Wasn't commenting on the industry...just here in CoX. It's nice you're paying extra...just need even more of that here apparently.
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I recall you riding this same hobbyhorse before my hiatus- keep it up, eventually you'll be right.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Interesting that you got "this game is in terrible shape" out of re-evaluate the freemium experience but yes, now i remember why i ignored you before your hiatus. Oh well, i better stop before the thread further devolves i guess.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Yes, because an 8 year anniversary celebration clearly indicates the game is in terrible shape.
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The simple connect the dots analyses of NCSoft revenue numbers were projecting this game would be dead in 2007, and 2008, and 2009, and 2010. That tends to damage their credibility somewhat.
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Originally Posted by Pebblebrook
I'm sure there are...a number of them are probably previous VIPs. But so far it's not showing much.
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