State of the story, questions. Spoilers inside.


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Posted

So I took a small hiatus to let the game come out with new content and such and just recently ran a lot of Dark Astoria content. I learned who the letter writer is, all about MOT, why Ouroboros is to be feared, etc. I still have a few questions though that maybe can be answered:

1) During this timeframe, Statesman is dead? If so, how come Sister Psyche is in the Diabolique Trial? Was she revived somehow?

2) So the entire reason Ouroboros is to be feared is because Nemesis went back in time to change a dagger that instead of killing Rularru, sent him to the Shadow Shard? I don't see this as too bad of a thing. Essentially, Nemesis calculated that humans wouldn't be enough to save the world and they needed the help of an external being? Or was he planning on wiping the Earth anyways?

3) After completing the Diabolique Trial, what is the fate of Dominatrix? It was left unclear as she was just standing there next to the Dream Doctor. Is she "good" now? Also, where does Dominatrix stand in terms of power? I know we encounter her in the First Ward arcs as an enemy, is she meant to be only around 35 meaning she is fairly weak?

4) I believe the Dream Doctor makes mention of defeating Tyrant, but what about Hamidon? Is there anything to do about him since he is a super version in Praetoria?

5) In some of the arcs in Dark Astoria, your character is made out to be super powerful. IE, when fighting the 5th Column you pretty much wipe the floor with both Requiem and Reichsman. Is this enemy group no longer considered a threat because we have grown so powerful?

6) If you have anything to add or to discuss I will read it. I really like the game's lore so please feel free to share.


 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Ultimus View Post
So I took a small hiatus to let the game come out with new content and such and just recently ran a lot of Dark Astoria content. I learned who the letter writer is, all about MOT, why Ouroboros is to be feared, etc. I still have a few questions though that maybe can be answered:

1) During this timeframe, Statesman is dead? If so, how come Sister Psyche is in the Diabolique Trial? Was she revived somehow?

2) So the entire reason Ouroboros is to be feared is because Nemesis went back in time to change a dagger that instead of killing Rularru, sent him to the Shadow Shard? I don't see this as too bad of a thing. Essentially, Nemesis calculated that humans wouldn't be enough to save the world and they needed the help of an external being? Or was he planning on wiping the Earth anyways?

3) After completing the Diabolique Trial, what is the fate of Dominatrix? It was left unclear as she was just standing there next to the Dream Doctor. Is she "good" now? Also, where does Dominatrix stand in terms of power? I know we encounter her in the First Ward arcs as an enemy, is she meant to be only around 35 meaning she is fairly weak?

4) I believe the Dream Doctor makes mention of defeating Tyrant, but what about Hamidon? Is there anything to do about him since he is a super version in Praetoria?

5) In some of the arcs in Dark Astoria, your character is made out to be super powerful. IE, when fighting the 5th Column you pretty much wipe the floor with both Requiem and Reichsman. Is this enemy group no longer considered a threat because we have grown so powerful?

6) If you have anything to add or to discuss I will read it. I really like the game's lore so please feel free to share.
1. Sister Psyche was left in Dilemma Diabolique to not spoil the SSA to the people who had yet to play it.

2. The reason Silos/Nemesis altered the Dagger of Jocas is unknown - he, like every other Mender, has his own strategy of how the Coming Storm and the Battalion can be stopped. Basically everything the Menders has us do in the past's exact effects are unknown, other than we managed to postpone the Coming Storm a bit. Rularuu is an "Ascended" being, a Well himself - perhaps Silos wants us to tap from his powers like Wade? If you want to know more about the Ascended, talk to Prometheus after doing DD.

3. Dominatrix is not an overpowered Incarnate like we are when we meet her in DA, hence her low power level. Any details after DD is relatively unknown, except from what we know from i23 and the Magisterium Trial. Think of Dominatrix probably being in the same role as a Mender, she doesn't quite have the superpowers, but she has a good head between her shoulders and ambition - plus she can talk people like us into working for her. It's emphasized that she wants power, probably in any shape - I wouldn't call her good but "realigned villainous vixen" fits her archetype right now I'd say.

4. Yes, in the i23 Magisterium trial it seems like we finally face and defeat Tyrant, not after he nukes most of Praetoria though. After him there is likely the fallout of total chaos as well as the Hamidon returning for us to deal with. He's big, he's bad, but apparently not as bad as the Battalion.

5. A lot of former Archvillains were left as Elite Bosses on purpose by the devs as it gave us the feeling we were truly much stronger than we used to be - most Incarnates can solo EBs, and as such we actually feel superpowered as we slap around the former big shots like Requiem, Recluse's Panel of Pals, etc.

I try to keep up with the lore, it is very interesting indeed -this is from the extent of what I know and I don't think I've missed anything


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Originally Posted by Ultimus View Post
1) During this timeframe, Statesman is dead? If so, how come Sister Psyche is in the Diabolique Trial? Was she revived somehow?
A) Yes, and B) No idea.

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2) So the entire reason Ouroboros is to be feared is because Nemesis went back in time to change a dagger that instead of killing Rularru, sent him to the Shadow Shard? I don't see this as too bad of a thing. Essentially, Nemesis calculated that humans wouldn't be enough to save the world and they needed the help of an external being? Or was he planning on wiping the Earth anyways?
Note that the reasons to fear Ouroboros are all Dream Doctor's opinions. The Doctor also supports his claim by making further claims that during his time traveling, he discovered that all of the Menders were essentially genocidal maniacs, sellouts, or tyrants of some sort in their own native times, and that Silos must be evil for putting them on his team.

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3) After completing the Diabolique Trial, what is the fate of Dominatrix? It was left unclear as she was just standing there next to the Dream Doctor. Is she "good" now? Also, where does Dominatrix stand in terms of power? I know we encounter her in the First Ward arcs as an enemy, is she meant to be only around 35 meaning she is fairly weak?
FW and the Peregrine Island arcs occur before New Dark Astoria. She made plans to turn against the Empire after her business in Astoria, but was captured by Mot before that. She's hanging out with the Resistance and the Dream Doctor during the events of the Magisterium trial.

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4) I believe the Dream Doctor makes mention of defeating Tyrant, but what about Hamidon? Is there anything to do about him since he is a super version in Praetoria?
Patience.

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5) In some of the arcs in Dark Astoria, your character is made out to be super powerful. IE, when fighting the 5th Column you pretty much wipe the floor with both Requiem and Reichsman. Is this enemy group no longer considered a threat because we have grown so powerful?
Patience.


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Originally Posted by TheDeepBlue View Post
The Doctor also supports his claim by making further claims that during his time traveling, he discovered that all of the Menders were essentially genocidal maniacs, sellouts, or tyrants of some sort in their own native times, and that Silos must be evil for putting them on his team.
And yet, McDreamy recruited folks like Protean and [insert your villain character here] and maybe others that I don't know about because I didn't play the new DA?


 

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Originally Posted by Lazarillo View Post
And yet, McDreamy recruited folks like Protean and [insert your villain character here] and maybe others that I don't know about because I didn't play the new DA?
He acknowledges this when you first meet him in Sybil Psyche's arc: "Perhaps I cannot speak, as I have Protean in my employ, but he pales in comparison to the horrors that the Menders have wrought."


 

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Originally Posted by Placta View Post
He acknowledges this when you first meet him in Sybil Psyche's arc: "Perhaps I cannot speak, as I have Protean in my employ, but he pales in comparison to the horrors that the Menders have wrought."
Fair enough. As mentioned, I haven't played DA (and am not likely to any time soon), so I haven't seen said justification. I'm not sure "unrepentant nazi murder-fiend" pales in comparison to "probably broke at least 73 rules of time travel FOR SCIENCE!", though.


 

Posted

As for the 5th column, yeah it's intended that as a villain group they can't really compete with Incarnate level heroes. There's seedlings that Requiem has acquired some new power from his stay in Cimerora that he'll used to empower the column. That was a reoccurring theme through all of Astoria I think, the fact that the villains are having to pull out new stops to compensate for our new power.

Malta will be using Battle Maiden's nanomachines to upgrade their tech. The Tsoo were using new tattoos that derived their power from souls. The Knives of Artemis were attacked and corrupted by the Talons of Vengeance to become the Knives of Vengeance. The Banished Pantheon were given power through Mot. The PPD are leaning on their new Awakened Kheldian members. Lord Recluse is searching for ways to empower his troops. So a lot of groups are trying to step up so they can compete with Incarnate level opposition.


 

Posted

An interesting thing about the Dream Doctor's claim that Ouroboros is evil and must be destroyed, and that he'll send it crashing into the sea, is that we've actually seen what seems to be the aftermath of that in the first misison of Mender Ramiel's arc - and it's not presented as being anything close to a good event.
But as a posisble balance to that, Darrin Wade's wacky antics in SSA1 have shown that trying to control or use Rularuu is kinda dangerous. which makes Silos' plan seem to be pretty risky too.
And then there's Prometheus with his trollface mask going "problem, Incarnates?" after each new bit of info that he revasl to us - so basically, all the major players that we've seen so far in the Coming Storm storyline have hugh potential for massive jerkishness at some point further down the line.


@Golden Girl

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Posted

So far I still trust the Dream Doctor more than I trust the others.

That doesn't mean that I don't exactly trust Mender Silos. He -was- Nemesis, but I think Ouroboros is generally benevolent. But I think Dream Doctor's discoveries about the menders and Silos' meddling with the dagger show that Ouro is based on an 'Any means to an end' kind of philosophy.

Though, I've always wondered a bit how true the Doctor's revelations are and if perhaps the Menders we know aren't from alternate timelines? It's kind of a problem with time travel on this magnitude. We've seen an alternate dimension, which may as well be an alternate timeline, where -we- became corrupt with power and wiped out the world.


 

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Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
An interesting thing about the Dream Doctor's claim that Ouroboros is evil and must be destroyed, and that he'll send it crashing into the sea, is that we've actually seen what seems to be the aftermath of that in the first misison of Mender Ramiel's arc
I thought of the same thing right after he said that line. I am expecting him to end up an enemy by the time everything is over. I just wish there was an option to get on his case about Protean killing the alternate you.

It'd be nice if they addressed how the Rikti beat the battalion alone but somehow they are a super serious threat to the multiverse too


 

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Originally Posted by G_Savior View Post
It'd be nice if they addressed how the Rikti beat the battalion alone but somehow they are a super serious threat to the multiverse too
Battalion mightn't have switched to their all-Well diet at that point in time.


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Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
so basically, all the major players that we've seen so far in the Coming Storm storyline have hugh potential for massive jerkishness at some point further down the line.
"Potential for" implies they aren't already.
That's the real twist. The Battalion are the good guys who are going to help our characters fight back against a bunch of time travelers who they can control Earth's fate.


 

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Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
An interesting thing about the Dream Doctor's claim that Ouroboros is evil and must be destroyed, and that he'll send it crashing into the sea, is that we've actually seen what seems to be the aftermath of that in the first misison of Mender Ramiel's arc - and it's not presented as being anything close to a good event.
When you put it that way, given how the Talons seem like they're gonna be around for a long time, I'm betting five million inf the Dream Doctor's own anger and hatred for Ouroboros will eventually pit us against a Nightmare of Vengeance.

Another five million says by that time we've been forced to kill a lot of people infested with the Talons' hate plague but being SUPER Incarnates by that point we'll have the power to break him free from their hold without killing him.


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Posted

Sister Psyche well be removed form the game and everything related to her will be replace with Penelope Yin.

Dominatrix is still Alive and well.

A lot more Story will be unfold in Issue 23.


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Originally Posted by Lazarillo View Post
Fair enough. As mentioned, I haven't played DA (and am not likely to any time soon), so I haven't seen said justification. I'm not sure "unrepentant nazi murder-fiend" pales in comparison to "probably broke at least 73 rules of time travel FOR SCIENCE!", though.
I think the Mender's potential crimes are far more than just breaking time travel rules for science. We've heard that Twilight's Son sold out his entire race to the Battalion, causing them to be used as a source of fuel, for example. I'd rather work with some uncaring mercenary if genocidal backstabber is my alternative.


 

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Originally Posted by Xzero45 View Post
I think the Mender's potential crimes are far more than just breaking time travel rules for science. We've heard that Twilight's Son sold out his entire race to the Battalion, causing them to be used as a source of fuel, for example. I'd rather work with some uncaring mercenary if genocidal backstabber is my alternative.
Well again, it's only a matter of 'he said she said' atm. We don't actually know any truth to the Dream Doctor's claims. I'm not saying that he's lying, but given that this does involve time travel it's possible that the timelines the Doctor has witnessed aren't the ones the Menders are from.

For all we know, Silos may have recruited them before they became evil or even 'mended' their timeline to change them. Or it's all true but there is information the Doctor doesn't know about (and thus we don't know).

We just don't know yet. All we've got is his word and our encounters with the individual menders. Tesseract I can totally believe. Lazarus though seems much more amiable and at least somewhat more stable than the Doctor implies.


 

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Originally Posted by Ultimus View Post
1) During this timeframe, Statesman is dead? If so, how come Sister Psyche is in the Diabolique Trial? Was she revived somehow?
She is being replaced by Penelope Yin in i23, along with her TF.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimus View Post
2) So the entire reason Ouroboros is to be feared is because Nemesis went back in time to change a dagger that instead of killing Rularru, sent him to the Shadow Shard? I don't see this as too bad of a thing. Essentially, Nemesis calculated that humans wouldn't be enough to save the world and they needed the help of an external being? Or was he planning on wiping the Earth anyways?
We'll probably find out later.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimus View Post
3) After completing the Diabolique Trial, what is the fate of Dominatrix? It was left unclear as she was just standing there next to the Dream Doctor. Is she "good" now? Also, where does Dominatrix stand in terms of power? I know we encounter her in the First Ward arcs as an enemy, is she meant to be only around 35 meaning she is fairly weak?
Diabolique is dead, killed by the Dream Doctor using the Dagger of Jocas. Dominatrix is now basically Catwoman to Primal Earth's Batman. She's not exactly good, but she's ambitious and highly intelligent.
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Originally Posted by Ultimus View Post
4) I believe the Dream Doctor makes mention of defeating Tyrant, but what about Hamidon? Is there anything to do about him since he is a super version in Praetoria?
Prometheus says that the Hamidon will probably leave well enough alone now that it has all of Praetorian Earth to itself after the Mags trial.
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Originally Posted by Ultimus View Post
5) In some of the arcs in Dark Astoria, your character is made out to be super powerful. IE, when fighting the 5th Column you pretty much wipe the floor with both Requiem and Reichsman. Is this enemy group no longer considered a threat because we have grown so powerful?
In that same arc you find that several groups have gained more power through various means in order to remain a threat to Incarnate level heroes.


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Originally Posted by Agent White View Post
Well again, it's only a matter of 'he said she said' atm. We don't actually know any truth to the Dream Doctor's claims. I'm not saying that he's lying, but given that this does involve time travel it's possible that the timelines the Doctor has witnessed aren't the ones the Menders are from.

For all we know, Silos may have recruited them before they became evil or even 'mended' their timeline to change them. Or it's all true but there is information the Doctor doesn't know about (and thus we don't know).

We just don't know yet. All we've got is his word and our encounters with the individual menders. Tesseract I can totally believe. Lazarus though seems much more amiable and at least somewhat more stable than the Doctor implies.
S'why I said "potential" and "we've heard".


 

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Originally Posted by DLancer View Post
She's not exactly good
Running a drug ring and murdering her own mother does make it difficult for her to be good.


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Posted

The reason the Rikti may have been able to defeat the Batallion is because they effectively killed off their own well.

It is made mention that the Rikti 'killed their Gods' meaning that they were not impowered by the well, yet we've seen that at their peak (the Lord of War and the Master at arms) they can stand toe to toe with Incarnates, not to the degree of the well empowered Praetorians but they can put up a hell of a fight.

This means the Rikti empowered themselves purely through technology, heck they didn't know about magic until fairly recently (their magic users are employed to counteract their weakness to magic after suffering a thrashing at the hands of the Midnight Squad and the Circle of Thorns during the first Rikti War).

The Battalion had no well to feed off of when they arrived meaning that they were at a sever disadvantage since it seems the Battalion work by feeding off the well of a race, thus weakening any super powered beings they have, without a Well, the Rikti were fighting at full strength all the time.


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Posted

But Rikti are just altered humans, and each species shares a well across dimensions, don't they? Praetorians, Primals, and the Rikti should all be drawing power from the same place.


 

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Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
Running a drug ring and murdering her own mother does make it difficult for her to be good.
GG actually has a point here. Dominatrix isn't good, and I doubt she ever will be. She's selfish and smart. She's realized she's playing on the losing team, so she's kissing up with the winning team by trying to help out in Primal Earth so that the Primals will be more accepting of her and she won't spend all her time locked up or dead once the war's over.


 

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Originally Posted by G_Savior View Post
But Rikti are just altered humans, and each species shares a well across dimensions, don't they? Praetorians, Primals, and the Rikti should all be drawing power from the same place.
But they've been altered to the point where they aren't humans anymore. They are Rikti, an entirely new race. Therefore, maybe they received a new well because of this.


 

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They are altered humans but, as I mentioned, they killed all magic on their world, which would include their own Well of Furies (along with all their gods), meaning the Battalion would have nothing to feed off since the Battalion seems to have the whole strategy for feeding off the well of a race, thus weakening it. The Rikti transcended the need for the Well and thus nolonger required it, advancing to the level of technology at which it is sufficiently advanced to have the capabilities to match against magic using foes.

The Rikti killing their gods and thus all magic thing is a very old piece of Lore and is only mentioned very briefly during ye olde Rikti info that use to be on the Website.

Actually I honestly suspect that the devs have forgotten this little piece of Lore themselves.


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Posted

So I went to Prometheus too after and read his new dialogue. Is it just that little bit about ascended people?

Are ascended people just essentially gods? I didn't really see how this is a possible alternative to incarnates and why he was so angry?