After people see The Avengers, fair warning to the Devs...

I don't want to believe it, either. However, I'm not a game designer, so I have to wait for an actual game designer to create a game where this isn't true before I can have proof that it doesn't. I'd say the newer "action MMOs" that keep coming out may be slightly closer to overcoming this problem as much of the performance depends on player skill, but so long as they subscribe to the MMO holy trinity of tank/healer/damage dealer, then the problem will remain.

Personally, I look to non-MMO games for inspiration of how team roles can exist without specifically relying on static classes. To me, the best example I can think of is Left 4 Dead 2. As you'll notice, there is literally NO difference between the four characters in the game (OK, Coach has a slightly larger hit box), yet characters nevertheless assume roles when actual people are involved, at least from when I've played it. People generally strive for some kind of balance in their loadout, so if someone grabs a shotgun, someone else will grab a rifle to ensure there's damage at all ranges. If someone grabs an axe, someone else will grab pistols.

In all cases, players all have the same hit points, the same access to weapon and can generally have the same performance. And yet nevertheless, you'll often find people with shotguns rushing ahead while people with sniper rifles hanging back and taking potshots. That's because people aren't stupid and they'll play to the strengths of their chosen tools. People will, in other words, still play to their roles less because they're prevented from taking up other roles and more because that's just the best way to use the tools they brought to the fight.

As far as I'm concerned, a game where classes are not balanced by being gimped is a game in which EVERYONE is a fighter, but everyone can ALSO pick some kind of secondary specialisation. In other words, you can never have a pure fighter, because that fighter is always something else, as well, but you can never have a non-combat character because you're forced to be a fighter to begin with. Once everyone is a fighter, you can ensure that everyone gets a moment of glory based, at the very least, on the expectation that this character can fight.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

There is a new MMO out there that says it aspires to something that sounds like this... but I wasn't in beta so I cannot say how it actually plays.

Historical. It's been pretty much lost in modern usage. The name of the leader of the X-men is always pronounced "Ex-avior", not Savior these days (even when it's not referring to that character).


And UXB was certainly used as far back as WW2. I remember a program on British TV in the 1970s called "Danger-UXB" about a bomb disposal crew.

Well, keep in mind that despite my pride in the language, I'm still not a native speaker. A lot of the history of the language is lost on me since very often all I have to go with is what I know about rules of spelling and grammar and not how things are actually done in practice where practice differs. I spotted somewhere someone explaining that the past tense of "eat" - "ate" is supposed to be pronounced "at" and not "ait" like one would think, and people who pronounce it as the latter are seen as uneducated for having deduced its pronunciation from seeing the word spelled as opposed to hearing it spoken.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

If you're alluding to GW2, as it sounds like you may be, then perhaps it does, I'm not sure. Either I'm too stuck in my ways regarding MMO play and so the play style didn't appeal to me or it really doesn't and that's why I felt the play style was so jarring. It was very.... different. Not necessarily in a bad way, but I can't say it was good either.

But since it only requires the one payment (at least until some expansions come out) for as long as you want to play, it's not a horrible investment for entertainment/$. It's definitely not going to pull me away from this game, though.

You guys are gonna love it.

I was thinking of another (not sure how the forum rules treat direct references...), but nice to hear that multiple properties may be working on ways to get beyond the trinity.

There's a lot to be crazy for, trust me. I'll be the first to say a new skin for the Team Teleporter, for one. Of course, that'll be a copyright thing...and speaking of copyright, is the Hulk's transformation costume change (for want of a better term) copyrighted as well? I think a lot of people would want that whole 'ripping and tearing of clothes' thing (more sounds than anything else, I guess) and I've never really seen it come up.

And hopefully my ideas on what I thought made it a great team scenario shine through, too.


S.

What the heck? No, that is wrong.

"Ate" is pronounced like "plate" without the "pl" part (ait/ayt). It is not pronounced like "hat" without the "h" (not "at").

I don't know a single person who is not a redneck that says "I at some pizza last night." EVERYONE I know (who is not a redneck) says "I ayt some pizza last night."

Note that rednecks pronounce all kinds of words wrong, mostly because they don't know any better.

Originally Posted by Dispari I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.

Rikti Ordinance Officer: Apologies. English: Language Immersion Priority: Low. Initial Designation: Bomb: Atomic Reaction; Fuse: Extended Delay. Override Source: U'Kon Gr'ai. Appellation Assertion: Fail: Epic.

Bow and Arrow melee?
Have fun and don´t forget your notepads.

Okay, be nice first of all to people who haven't seen it yet and may appreciate no spoilers (I and others have made an effort here...) and please refrain from any more?

Alright, of the above list...how many exist in the same scenario? You only get destructable environments in Safeguards. You don't get the nukes, you don't get the alien invasion, nor the side-switching, nor the apparent inability to get along, nor a base nor a base raid.

The specific scenario I mentioned has all of those in the one package. CoH does not.

Or are you now going to tell me we're somehow better off because we can't combine or have multiple of the things above? Because if we could, we'd have what appears in that scene, everyone would have a moment to shine in a team environment and you'd have not only an exciting and dramatic scenario, but also an entertaining one.

Those things you listed are often isolated. Rikti raids. Bases. Safeguards. Nukes. Destructable environments are so isolated I'm not sure if they even get used much anymore. You can claim we have them, but in this case the sum of the parts do not equal the whole.

So to turn the question back on you: What do you think we do have that's comparable?



S.

I have no idea where in the English speaking world "ate" is pronounced "at." It is pronounced "ait."

I apologise for having to do this, but I have to point out - the Rikti have no working knowledge of nuclear power. I've had people refuse to believe me, but it's in a clue in one of the legacy contact Rikti missions. I want to say either Dr. Science or Angus McQueen, but I can't really be sure. And the clue doesn't really say much more than what I said. Something to the effect that "This research shows that the Rikti have no practical knowledge of nuclear power." They may be aware of it from a theoretical standpoint, but they don't have machines to harness it, as best I can tell.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

I know it is in British English for certain - that's what the rule was referring to.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Recluse's Victory

though granted this doesn't have all of the things mentioned, it's pretty close for a game that's 8 years old.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/medical/eat

Listen via the little sound symbol after "ate". It says "ait". It then says "primarily British" and says "et". Which is still not "at".

Originally Posted by Dispari I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.

Rikti Ordinance Officer: Work Here, Just. Complaints: Designated Target: Entity; Attribute: Expresses Care. Contingency Plan: Tree: Execute Ascension. Self: Job: Directed Application of Force: Permission Granted.

We also have Penny Yin, which puts us miles ahead.

I demand Chair Fighting/Mastery

I'm a native (British) English speaker, and ate has always been pronounced ait where I come from. You sure someone hasn't been yanking your chain?

"et" would be considered the "uneducated" version.

"At" is just "at". Or something you wear on your 'ead.

Meh, just give us Staff Blast instead

I think I know what game you're talking about, and from what I can tell it's still intended for people to specialize in things like ranged damage, tanking, etc. My guess is in practice people will find a build that does everything "good enough" and that will become the standard until something gets nerfed. That seems to fit the general MMO pattern.