High performance both ST and AoE?


Angelxman81

 

Posted

I know there's another "what powersets should I choose?" thread active right now, but I think my request is different enough to warrant its own thread. I know I want to go for /Nin as my secondary but I would like suggestions for primary.

I'm an experienced player and I've got 50s in every other AT but zero stalkers. I don't want a set that excels at single target damage but sucks at AoE, nor vice versa. Is there consensus on one that has a reputation for being strong in both? I've heard good things about Elec Melee (which surprises me because it was very weak in single target when I used it for a Brute), Street Justice, and Kin Melee. But I'd like to read about direct comparisons of the powersets instead of people just saying "Well, I don't know about those others but I sure like mine!"

If this is a straight rehash of a previous thread, I apologize in advance: just link me to the old thread and you have my gratitude. I know there are some guides out there but most of them are older and were made before changes in AS, as well as availability of newer powersets.


Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.

 

Posted

Some extremely generalistic comments:

KM has good aoe thanks to Burst which has a 100% crit chance, makes very good use of placate and stalker ATO to leverage. KM has moderately good ST dmg, it would be top tier however it over relies on the Stalker ATO proc to get CS to auto recharge BU. The Stalker ATO can only be triggered once every 10 seconds and with the proposed PPM change, it will be even worse after that.

StJ has extemely good ST dmg, with a hard hitting but small radius aoe. The set benefits from the stalker ATO making CU hit like a truck but it does not over rely on the proc to function well like KM

ElM actually does very respectable ST dmg thanks to AS making up for it's lack of a strong ST attack. Lightning Rod has really good burst damage and doesn't break hide (the latter isn't something I found immensely useful outside pvp, but can still be a nice perk). Most of ElM attacks will deal AoE damage but it isn't as conventional as just having 1 main aoe like KM and StJ.


 

Posted

My suggestion...go ELM.

Stalkers advantage over the other Melee AT is due to Assassin Strike. Even without the proc for added yumminess, the ST DPS is taken care of with that one power.

Skip Havok Punch. Take Charged Brawl.

Charged Brawl + Jacob's Ladder + Chain Induction + Assassin Strike

You can't really go wrong with it. Then you add in the benefits of Lightning Rod for AOE damage and it doesn't break hide.

In fact, I'd say pick up Spring Attack to go with it for a (admittedly) slightly weaker version of LR!

What I am curious about is if it's worth picking up Thunderstrike now? I'd say yes because it's more AOE, but I couldn't say for sure.

I don't know, while I love other sets for various reasons (animations being a big one) and yeah sets like StJ has decent enough AOE (for me anyways), but when wanting a good combination of both...ELM.

Something to think about. Most of the game is not about DPS. Even on Incarnate content. And yes, you want to have some good DPS for big fights, ELM has enough ST DPS to make that a non-issue.

So it's taking you 4-5 minutes to solo that AV/Pylon versis the 2-3 minutes. So what? You jiust mass killed everything on the rest of the map.


BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by DreadShinobi View Post
Some extremely generalistic comments:

KM has good aoe thanks to Burst which has a 100% crit chance, makes very good use of placate and stalker ATO to leverage. KM has moderately good ST dmg, it would be top tier however it over relies on the Stalker ATO proc to get CS to auto recharge BU. The Stalker ATO can only be triggered once every 10 seconds and with the proposed PPM change, it will be even worse after that.
First, a tangent on KM:
Both the current and previous "head powers" developers (Castle and Synapse) have posted that the 100% chance to critical from hidden status in Burst is a bug and will be fixed. Castle did it publicly in a forum post, Synapse responded in a PM asking if all AoEs could be given the same treatment since it works so well for KM (and the APP Fireball) by stating that neither should have the 100% critical and both would eventually be fixed. Just a heads up for anyone who takes KM thinking that Burst makes it a good AoE set.

After that, it depends on what you're looking for, and if damage type matters or not.

Electric Melee for Stalkers does very well in single target damage because Assassin's Shock outside of hide is essentially pre-nerf Energy Transfer. Scrappers and Brutes don't get that benefit, so will be left far behind in their single target capability with the set. If you want an exotic damage type it's going to be your best bet.

Dual Blades, despite being lethal damage, is a very capable set that can leverage the cones in the set for good AoE damage while still using procs to increase the single target damage.

Spines isn't great for single target damage when compared to the other sets but has a lot of AoEs and like Electric Melee, the Stalker version gets a huge boost from AS which separates it from the Scrapper version. I just got sick of lethal damage before GR and shelved my Spines/Nin and deleted the DB/WP Stalkers.


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it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandX View Post
And yes, you want to have some good DPS for big fights, ELM has enough ST DPS to make that a non-issue.

So it's taking you 4-5 minutes to solo that AV/Pylon versis the 2-3 minutes. So what? You jiust mass killed everything on the rest of the map.
From the first page of the pylon thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auroxis View Post
My Elec/Nin's i22 average on Pylons is 322 DPS.

Attack Chain: AS-CI-CB-JL

T4 Musculature Core, T4 Reactive Radial, T4 Ageless Core.
Yes, I'd have to agree that over 300 single-target DPS is probably sufficient.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle View Post
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brillig View Post
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.

 

Posted

Right now, I feel Staff has that perfect mix of good ST and good AoE.

You can't go wrong with Elec Melee and even SJ is good too. The aoe part is just a bit small.

I like Spines a lot especially with the new AS change because now it has a good ST attack that it was seriously lacking before.

Kin is good but animation time is on the long side.

All of my game friends are leveling Staff and all of them love it a lot. They love it more than Titan Weapon for sure.

The best Stalker experience imo are: Staff, Elec, Spine, and Kin. Dual Blade actually has a good mix of everything except that the combos kind of suck if that's what you want.


What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jibikao View Post
Right now, I feel Staff has that perfect mix of good ST and good AoE.

You can't go wrong with Elec Melee and even SJ is good too. The aoe part is just a bit small.
Of those three, two you have to pay for. I think you have to pay for KM if you didn't get GR before i20 launched, but I had so I can't say on that one; that makes my list the "free" sets to go with.

I also skipped mentioning Staff because I haven't actually played the set and so forgot about it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle View Post
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brillig View Post
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siolfir View Post

I also skipped mentioning Staff because I haven't actually played the set and so forgot about it.
Give it a try if you can afford the points. It is really good. I converted two friends who don't play Stalkers to play Staff Stalker now. They love it!


What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.

 

Posted

Rolled my first ever stalker last night. Staff/Nin. I'm level 20 and enjoying the heck out of it.

Was never interested in them before due to the hide, strike, run, repeat game play. But with the recent stalker changes this plays almost like a scrapper.


We don' need no stinkin' signatures!

 

Posted

Looks like it's between ELM/Nin and Staff/Nin. I'm torn! I'm afraid some of the love for Staff is just because it's the newest powerset. Plus I abandoned my level 50 ELM/Shield Brute a long while back out of frustration over his lack of single target damage.... there's a part of me that wants to re-experience a better-balanced ELM but another part that wants to experience a totally new power set.

Decisions, decisions...


Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.

 

Posted

Dual Blades is one of the highest STDPS (at omega levels of recharge) Scrapper Primaries, and Sweeping Strike beats basically every single AoE in the game.

I'd strongly consider it.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siolfir View Post
From the first page of the pylon thread:


Yes, I'd have to agree that over 300 single-target DPS is probably sufficient.
It's actually 340 DPS currently.

Yes, ElM is great for stalkers.


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Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suspicious_Pkg View Post
Rolled my first ever stalker last night. Staff/Nin. I'm level 20 and enjoying the heck out of it.

Was never interested in them before due to the hide, strike, run, repeat game play. But with the recent stalker changes this plays almost like a scrapper.
That was never their playstyle


BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection

 

Posted

I've got a level 42 Staff/WP Stalker and she rocks! I played around with KM/Nin but that was Pre-PvE changes. Staff might be new, but it's a solid set and Guarded Spins +melee def and the high amount of knockdown add to Stalker survivability. I find my WP Stalker is more hardy than my WP Brute (also Staff). Can't comment on any of the others for actual play, but looking at Mids, I see some other Stalkers in my future.

Cheers


BALANCE IS A NERF
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Han Solo: [laughs] Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good BLASTER at your side, kid.

 

Posted

Electric melee is a beast for stalkers now.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sardan View Post
Looks like it's between ELM/Nin and Staff/Nin. I'm torn! I'm afraid some of the love for Staff is just because it's the newest powerset. Plus I abandoned my level 50 ELM/Shield Brute a long while back out of frustration over his lack of single target damage.... there's a part of me that wants to re-experience a better-balanced ELM but another part that wants to experience a totally new power set.

Decisions, decisions...
Staff has AOE. But I don't know if I'd call it High Performance.

But it's pretty and it's new!


BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandX View Post
Staff has AOE. But I don't know if I'd call it High Performance.
I think Staff's AoE is pretty high performance. Yes, Elec has the best aoe (at burst) but Eye of Storm's radius is pretty good and Guarded's 9' wide cone can be used very frequently. I think aoe is high enough and its ST is high too. May not be the highest but Staff has long range and +defense built into the aoe.


What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sardan View Post
Looks like it's between ELM/Nin and Staff/Nin. I'm torn! I'm afraid some of the love for Staff is just because it's the newest powerset. Plus I abandoned my level 50 ELM/Shield Brute a long while back out of frustration over his lack of single target damage.... there's a part of me that wants to re-experience a better-balanced ELM but another part that wants to experience a totally new power set.

Decisions, decisions...
Staff is new and it's really good.

I say go with Staff. You've already leveled an Elec to 50. If you want to build another stalker, go with Elec again. Or make two of them. I tend to level two toons and I alternate between the two. Once your level is high, one of them always enjoys blue bars.


What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.

 

Posted

Staff really is sweet, though I haven't been playing it much since I'm still not used to /Ice's aesthetics yet.

Though I am having fun with my StJ Stalker at 35 right now, love two-shotting bosses with the AS-->CU combination (With the help of red Insps).

I do feel like starting a Dual Blades/Super Reflexes Stalker though. What's the word on Dual Blades in general?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sardan View Post
Looks like it's between ELM/Nin and Staff/Nin. I'm torn! I'm afraid some of the love for Staff is just because it's the newest powerset.
Having an ELM/Nin scrapper and currently playing up a Staff character (scrapper), I will say that ELM/Nin works quite fine and has been enjoyable. The only reason he is sitting on the shelf in his 30s is I can't come up with a good choice for an epic set.

Staff is not loved just because it is new but because many people can see just how flexible it is in fitting in with protection sets, alleviating problems for several of them, while also putting out very nice damage (despite what some claim).


Under construction

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siolfir View Post
First, a tangent on KM:
Both the current and previous "head powers" developers (Castle and Synapse) have posted that the 100% chance to critical from hidden status in Burst is a bug and will be fixed. Castle did it publicly in a forum post, Synapse responded in a PM asking if all AoEs could be given the same treatment since it works so well for KM (and the APP Fireball) by stating that neither should have the 100% critical and both would eventually be fixed. Just a heads up for anyone who takes KM thinking that Burst makes it a good AoE set.
I sort of semi expected it wasn't WAI, but being unfixed for so long you begin to grow to the assumption that they don't think it's so horrendously broken that it doesn't need to be fixed, especially as it does make up for KM's lacking in other areas. When was KM released? Something like i16 with GR i think?

Currently I'd say KM's 100% crit will be staying for a while. The only thing I wouldn't count on staying is the AS animation imbalance in AS. KM's is something like 0.67 iirc, which is below brawl animation, whereas others are around 1 second higher than it, and synapse did say that he was going to bring them all to a 1s animation.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by DreadShinobi View Post
I sort of semi expected it wasn't WAI, but being unfixed for so long you begin to grow to the assumption that they don't think it's so horrendously broken that it doesn't need to be fixed, especially as it does make up for KM's lacking in other areas. When was KM released? Something like i16 with GR i think?

Currently I'd say KM's 100% crit will be staying for a while. The only thing I wouldn't count on staying is the AS animation imbalance in AS. KM's is something like 0.67 iirc, which is below brawl animation, whereas others are around 1 second higher than it, and synapse did say that he was going to bring them all to a 1s animation.
I don't know. I expect it'll be fixed when out of the blue. Like a suprise for many KM users!

"Oh hey! Look! We fixed this long standing bug!"

Kinda like the Hami-O bugs


BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandX View Post
I don't know. I expect it'll be fixed when out of the blue. Like a suprise for many KM users!

"Oh hey! Look! We fixed this long standing bug!"

Kinda like the Hami-O bugs
Probably. That's how most things tend to get fixed.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Synesence View Post
Staff really is sweet, though I haven't been playing it much since I'm still not used to /Ice's aesthetics yet.

Sullster posted these in another thread:

/macro FXoff "SuppressCloseFx 1$$SuppressCloseFxDist 255"
/macro FXon "SuppressCloseFx 0"

They add buttons to your tray that can turn power Fx off and on. Works great for IA.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricohdah View Post
Sullster posted these in another thread:

/macro FXoff "SuppressCloseFx 1$$SuppressCloseFxDist 255"
/macro FXon "SuppressCloseFx 0"

They add buttons to your tray that can turn power Fx off and on. Works great for IA.
Woohoo! Gross clunky Ice Armor is gone! Thanks!