You know what would get ME to PvP?

If it was PvE. Against other players.

No diminishing returns, no travel suppression, no heal decay, full-duration mezzes, full-strength mez protection... None of that nonsense "mez suppression" that makes people immune to certain kinds of mez after they get hit with it...

If I can't out-damage some guy's heals and regen, I shouldn't be allowed to beat him. If I get hit with chain-mez and wind up perma-held, I deserve defeat. If someone's using that one damage type I'm weak to, then by golly, I'm gonna suck it up and be weak to it. If I can't mez the other guy because his protection is too strong, then I guess I shouldn't be trying to mez him herp derp.

And of course, Supremacy should definitely grant teleport protection with enough Henchmen around. I mean, come on, that's just common sense.

You're essentially describing pre i13 pvp.

Just about, yeah, except for that "mez suppression" baloney. That turned me off to it even back then.

And this couldn't have been said (again) in the other two pvp threads in this section?

You know what would get me to pvp?? A new feature... since I haven't stated it in the other threads------

If you or your teammates kill someone within 5 minutes of the last kill of that person your regen gets severely debuffed for 5 mins and you receive -10 rep. There needs to be a consequence for the ganking the same person over and over and over...maybe that would help with the griefing by people/teams on one person. Sitting here I am chuckling thinking... Person A's team kills Person B... Person A's team immediately does it again when Person B comes out of hosp... when Person B comes back out of hosp.. Person A's team is so severely debuffed that Person B whoops all their a$$es And if Person B doesn't get a chance to...the other players in the zone will

You see I can ignore the asinine comments of some of the vocal pvp kiddies...it's their actions that drive me away.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paladiamors I love you, I Burnt the Toast!

I fear I have unleashed a monster. It stood snarling at the gates and I foolish opened them, sending forth a flow of resentment now freed from its cage.



As cool as this sounds, there's a couple of issues that pop up. Most of the PVP MMO things I have seen have a larger divide between a players health and their damage output (either directly in the HP stat or indirectly via a limited bank of healing items). This is there largely to prevent the dreaded OHKO that can plague so many systems, letting players be capable of actually defending themselves instead of the kill or get killed that a 1:1 HP to Damage Output ratio can make. If you don't deal with this issue, then PVP combat quickly devolves into whomever can attack first instead of whomever has better tactics.

Now, the game's current solution to this problem is to give everyone resistances. This is much less than ideal: merely giving resistances to all the classes doesn't distinguish classes based upon survivability via resistances anymore. This is quite horrible, actually: My Dominator and my Stalker suddenly have the same resistances, and my resistance based stalker is now inferior to the defense based stalker because they get their defense bonuses with a resistance bonus where I am essentially just another blaster or something like that. The ideal solution would be to increase everyone's HP by a scale amount. Giving each class an unresistable buff to HP equal to that base max HP. At 50, a blaster gets 1204.8 extra max HP, a widow 1071 HP, a tanker 1874, ect. This, of course, would have to increase the HP cap of each class while in PVP zones only. Then, when everyone has 2000 HP, that 1000 damage Assassin Stirke is still quite deadly but isn't lethal, and resistance based toons can more adequately distinguish themselves.

The two biggest difficulties with this suggestion come from percentage heals and the tech. Green inspirations heal based on max HP and not a fixed healing amount, so their potency will have to be halved. The tech limitation is whether or not the maximum HP can be altered in such a way as I described, by having selectively active increases and breeches in cap while in a PVP environment. The alternate to this suggestion would be to halve the damage of all attacks for PVP, but this will affect NPC combat, and also alongside of it the potency of all heals will need to be cut in half, as well as the power of procs, or anything that affects or mitigates damage in a linear fashion.


The second issue with this game is movement. Mobility in the game was designed to be free and largely non-consequential to enemies that all come with various ranged attacks. In a PVP environment you will have players that only have a means of attacking another while being in point blank range, and while fighting against an opponent who is faster than you this can lead to problems (run, fire a shot at a safe distance, run some more, fire a shot at a safe distance). Being designed for PVE from the ground up, melee classes were given no special means to close the distance between themselves and their enemies since enemies would rarely run, and almost never run away quickly.

The solution to this problem eludes me, however. There are a couple of ideas I've had, such as giving Melee toons the ability to dash forward very quickly via a temp power, causing all travel powers to suppress when using any offensive attack, giving in innate max speed debuff for all non-melee toons, ect. Whatever works will work. Currently there is travel suppression which is applied in a seemingly random manner. I would prefer it if travel suppression was applied in a more consistent manner: all ranged damaging attacks and directly applied debuffs slow for a certain amount of time. Teleportation being the exception, which is halted immediately after all attacks for a short time. Melee attacks will suppress powers for a much shorter duration than ranged attacks, if at all. This in theory should allow meleers to catch up to rangers and fight them adequately enough.


My other concerns are with debuffs and mezz, though I am not certain that an issue "exists" right now as much as I am just afraid that a permadom can stack mag 50 hold on someone rather easily. The flip side is a controller needs the mez to be present to dole out their damage. It becomes a big mess when factoring in resistance based sets and IOs and defenses and all that, so mezz will have to be an issue that is monitored rather than one that is just "fixed".

EDIT: I suppose the easiest thing to do is to grant trollers perpetual containment damage like the trial AVs. After all, it isn't realistic to expect a player with 10 mezz protection, high defenses, and access to breakfrees to be mezzed long enough to lay down the damage from containment

Pre-i13 PvP sucked. Post i13 sucked even more.

The only thing i13 PvP really had going for it was the fact that it mostly followed the same rules as PvE. About the only difference was mez suppression (IIRC). i13 PvP completely changed the game, adding a ton of new rules (heal decay? mez changes? defense changes?), so the barrier for entry was raised even higher.

Of course, I've yet to find an "RPG" with PvP that I didn't think sucked horribly. I remember playing Aion for a while... and having one time when I was trying to travel through a zone (ugh, travel time!) that the other side had decided to raid (it wasn't a PvP zone like the Abyss, just a regular one)... right when I got in, I got ganked because our fort was full of their guys... and every time I'd respawn, I'd get to see the "guards" around the respawn point laying on the ground dead (whoops!). Basically, I just had to make a mad dash out of the fort as fast as I could, hoping none of them noticed I was there.

We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.

So basically you want PvP to be all Purple IOed, Incarnates. That what it would be (if it isn't already) and every one else gets farmed.

Im looking around but i cant find the competition to see how many "this is why i dont pvp" threads can be put on the first page

I sampled PvP through the first few iterations, which is what the OP is suggesting. It wasn't much fun.

PvP should be like the long, drawn-out, one-on-one hero vs. villain brawls in the comics, or a mass melee like in the Avengers. But pre-I13 PvP was a tedious chase hither and yon through Siren's Call or Bloody Bay followed by a short and savage eight-on-one ganking.

The PvP changes were intended to give us more of that big AV fight flavor, but the totally different mechanics have turned off everyone. The same rules should be used for PvP and PvE. Instead of changing the mechanics to force particular behavior on players, there should be incentives to elicit the desired behavior from the players.

Thus, instead of travel suppression, heal decay, shortened mezzes, etc., the system should reward players for playing the "right" way. For example, if 8 characters gank one target, it's not counted as a kill and would penalize your rewards. Fleeing would penalize your rewards. Chain-mezzing an opponent would penalize you. Beating on an opponent who's not defending himself would be penalized.

One way to do this would be to provide an on-screen display of a stat that tracks desired behavior. For example, a dynamic Bravery or Honor score would be decreased every time you did something that was considered cowardly (fleeing, ganging up on a target, chain-mezzing an opponent, attacking someone who doesn't fight back), and increased if you did something brave (faced down multiple opponents, allowed an knocked-down opponent to stand up unmolested). Ganking someone who's resting could hammer your Bravery score for several minutes. Any kills occurring when you have a negative Bravery score wouldn't not be counted.

The Bravery bar could be displayed under Hit Points and could turn blue when you're brave and yellow when you're cowardly.

This would add a new wrinkle to PvP. Instead of just concentrating on ganking your opponent in the shortest possible time, you would have to monitor your Bravery score as well, carefully coordinating it with your attacks. This would require strategical as well as tactical considerations in choosing your actions.

PvP would be more like a boxing match than a beat-down in alley. The server would be the referee. The challenge would be writing the code in the server that makes reasonable judgments on how your Bravery score changes. There would be a lot of bickering over what would constitute bravery, and it would need tweaking over time.

Like anything, such a system would be subject to exploitation. But a computer-refereed system would be a vast improvement over what we've got now, where people farm PvP recipes by ganking motionless characters on multiple accounts. It would be possible to game this system, of course, but that's the point. As long as it takes several minutes to game it, it's better than simplistic brain-numbing PvP farming.

By requiring characters to move and fight back over a minimum amount of time, you might be able to make PvP farming more difficult than actually PvPing, which would mean you could increase the drop chances for PvP recipes, which would make it even more appealing.

"Or, you know, if you don't want to fight against THOSE people, play against a friend instead. You won't see me entering any Strongest Man contests, since I doubt I could flip a car with my hands. Same idea applies to PvP.

I mean, it's not like I'm going to take any Warshades up against Giant Monsters in PvE. What's the difference?

Now if we took teams against each other, THAT'D be interesting. As long as there was none of that phony mez suppression."


You know that difference between fighting a Giant Monster and fighting a purples-out IOed player? You know you will get our behind kicked BEFORE the fight.

Also, it seems you seem to be wrapped around the mez suppression issue above anything else.

I remember back when pvp was popular, there would always be a brute/tank in a zone like Sirens with capped S/L resis. With majority of sets doing S/L he was almost impossible to kill and when you topped that off with aid self which was impossible also to stop, he'ld win 9/10 fights.