Joss Whedon thinks Buffy could beat the Black Widow
By
Aneko,
Posted on: 2012-04-11 04:46 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
Whedon is spot on. Sorry.
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I'd give it to Buffy as well.
Buffy has the supernatural toughness/agility/strength plus the training. Widow has the training and guns for sure. And Buffy can be laid out by a gun. But I'd give it to Buffy.
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I'll be diplomatic enough to say that Natasha could likely beat Buffy before she had any serious training. But Buffy, once she became the Slayer, literally had superhuman superpowers which included super strength and resistance. Slayers, as envisioned by Whedon, are almost like a version of Wonder Woman - at best Natasha is a very skilled "normal" human.|
Originally Posted by Nericus
Sorry Joss, but I have to disagree. Buffy may have the strength and speed to fight vamps, but Black Widow's training is a bit more extensive.
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On average Natasha might get a few lucky shots in on Buffy but I would bet a win for Buffy pretty much every time these two matched up.
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I think Natasha would get in more than a few lucky shots, but much like you said, Buffy is akin to Wonder Woman.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
I'll be diplomatic enough to say that Natasha could likely beat Buffy before she had any serious training. But Buffy, once she became the Slayer, literally had superhuman superpowers which included super strength and resistance. Slayers, as envisioned by Whedon, are almost like a version of Wonder Woman - at best Natasha is a very skilled "normal" human.
On average Natasha might get a few lucky shots in on Buffy but I would bet a win for Buffy pretty much every time these two matched up. |
Natasha just doesn't have the strength behind her punches/kicks to hurt someone who takes punches from other supernaturally strong enemies.
Of course, Natasha can change it up and go the lethal weapon route, which (much like Wonder Woman) Buffy doesn't have any special strength again, but her own training deals with avoiding that herself.
Especially when even in the Buffy universe it was mentioned..."How do vampires always seem to learn martial arts when they're created?"
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Originally Posted by VoodooCompany
How much clothing are we talking about..........?
>.> |
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Well Buffy still have some Degree of Super Powers, so I say yes to Buffy as well.
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Yeah. Buffy. No question. I like Black Widow well enough, but Buffy wins.
Edit: Also, Joss Whedon's description of the fight is awesome and needs to be put on film, or at least in a comic.
@Quasadu
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Not to mention that even if Black Widow managed to kill Buffy, she'd just come back.
'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
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Well Buffy herself wouldn't resurrect from the dead, but I suppose her Slayer replacement (i.e. Faith) could always hunt Black Widow down for revenge.
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Originally Posted by Aneko
Not to mention that even if Black Widow managed to kill Buffy, she'd just come back.
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She's done it before.
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Originally Posted by Lothic
Well Buffy herself wouldn't resurrect from the dead
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'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
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Yeah, but there's no guarantee she would depending on how Black Widow managed to kill her. For instance it'd be pretty hard to come back from getting hit by a tactical nuclear device. |
Originally Posted by Aneko
She's done it before.
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The idea that a new Slayer would take the place of a dead one is a guaranteed way for any Slayer to "effectively" come back from the dead. Besides it pretty much means that no matter how many Slayers Black Widow managed to kill there'd always be another one to keep the pressure on.
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Buffy: So where's this...
*HEADSHOT!*
Natasha: Target neutralized sir.
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Originally Posted by VoodooCompany
How much clothing are we talking about..........?
>.> |
@Joshua.
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As cute as this scenario is I'd just have to ask why the vampires haven't ever tried to do this. |
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Buffy: So where's this...
*HEADSHOT!* Natasha: Target neutralized sir. |
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Buffy: So where's this...
*HEADSHOT!* Natasha: Target neutralized sir. |
Buffy: So where's this...
*HEADS..*
*dodge*
Natasha: Target neut..
*punch caves in face*
(pretty sure she's been shot at before... so *ho hum*)
City of Heroes was my first MMO, & my favorite computer game.
R.I.P.
Chyll - Bydand - Violynce - Enyrgos - Rylle - Nephryte - Solyd - Fettyr - Hyposhock - Styrling - Beryllos - Rosyc
Horryd - Myriam - Dysquiet - Ghyr
Vanysh - Eldrytch
Inflyct - Mysron - Orphyn - Dysmay - Reapyr - - Wyldeman - Hydeous
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Indeed, I don't recall bulletproof skin or wolverine level regeneration powers as part of the Slayer's abilities. |
Originally Posted by Lothic
As cute as this scenario is I'd just have to ask why the vampires haven't ever tried to do this.
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Granted Buffy's pals revived her from the dead at least once so it could likely be done again.
As to not coming back from a tactical nuke explosion, well Spike was at ground zero of a rather catastrophic event as I recall, then came back as a ghost and later was restored to flesh and bone, albeit still a vampire with a soul.
As tough as Buffy is, and yes she has strength and speed to her advantage, Black Widow is a highly trained covert op/espionage agent/assassin with a few decades of experience.
Skill vs. power
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Buffy ain't exactly a rookie.
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Originally Posted by Nericus
As tough as Buffy is, and yes she has strength and speed to her advantage, Black Widow is a highly trained covert op/espionage agent/assassin with a few decades of experience.
Skill vs. power |
@Quasadu
"We must prepare for DOOM and hope for FREEM." - SirFrederick
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Buffy: So where's this...
*HEADSHOT!* Natasha: Target neutralized sir. |
Remember what happened to the last guy that tried this?
<.<
>.>
.....
....his skin layer is still somewhere in the stratosphere, while his body is a pile of ashes blowing in the wind
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That was a mystical death, and tPtB allowed it to be mystically reversed. They've addressed mystical death vs. natural death a number of times in both the BtVS and Angel series, and there is no coming back from a natural death--ie Tara, Joyce, Jenny, Doyle, etc. Wes remained dead, albeit ghostly for a bit. Fred's death was mystical, but it destroyed her soul in the process--there was nothing left to "bring back." Angel and Spike's deaths have all been mystical, which is why they keep coming back.|
Originally Posted by Nericus
Granted Buffy's pals revived her from the dead at least once so it could likely be done again.
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I know that it's a loose mythology, especially considering that death from massive blood loss counts as natural, unless a vampire caused it by feeding, in which case it is mystical.
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Buffy has been rezzed 2 times for the record. First time master drowned her and Xander used CPR to revive her. Second time Glory opened a hell portal and to close it Buffy jumped in so Dawn wouldn't have to. Three times if you count when Cordelia wished them into a parallel universe and Master snapped her neck there.
Buffy would so win, Warren already tried to shoot her point blank with a magically enchanted bullet and still failed(but did manage to kill Tara).
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I already accounted for skill depending on what version of Buffy faced Black Widow. At the beginning (even when she had Slayer powers) Buffy was obviously a pretty poor fighter.|
Originally Posted by Nericus
Indeed, I don't recall bulletproof skin or wolverine level regeneration powers as part of the Slayer's abilities.
Granted Buffy's pals revived her from the dead at least once so it could likely be done again. As to not coming back from a tactical nuke explosion, well Spike was at ground zero of a rather catastrophic event as I recall, then came back as a ghost and later was restored to flesh and bone, albeit still a vampire with a soul. As tough as Buffy is, and yes she has strength and speed to her advantage, Black Widow is a highly trained covert op/espionage agent/assassin with a few decades of experience. Skill vs. power |
But I still don't think that even with Black Widow's arguably superior tactical experience that she'd be the automatic winner versus a trained version of Buffy. In a way this is almost a variation of the classic "Superman versus Batman" debate cast in terms of Buffy (being Superman) and Black Widow (being Batman). Unfortunately for all of Black Widow's skill and smarts she just doesn't possess any kind of Kryptonite that could affect Buffy.
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In terms of physical ability, Buffy is probably right in there with the likes of Blade and Spider-Man. She's not only trained and had several years worth of experience, but her skill level is such that she's trained others as well. While Black Widow may resort to sniping, Buffy may resort to bazooka-ing (as in the case of the Judge). However, it's supposed to be a fight, so the physical power in combination with the skill means Buffy only needs one good shot to put Black Widow down and she's shown she is willing to take the punishment just to get that shot in.
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Sure she does......one hollow point round right into the head..... Snipe! Snipe! |
Originally Posted by Lothic
Unfortunately for all of Black Widow's skill and smarts she just doesn't possess any kind of Kryptonite that could affect Buffy.
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Joss thinks that in a fight Buffy the Vampire Slayer could beat Natasha Romanov/Black Widow of the Avengers.
Sorry Joss, but I have to disagree. Buffy may have the strength and speed to fight vamps, but Black Widow's training is a bit more extensive.
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