Thoughts about Base updates.

I agree with the concept of Lairs (minus the number of people in said lair limitation that the competition instituted), and grandfathering the old system is the way to go. Absolutely every Dev I've heard or read about talking about the system has said that the coding for it is like a house of cards and has to be handled gently.

I would definitely suggest that upgraded textures and new base items (preferably 3D from Going Rogue onwards) be added to do absolutely everything to reduce the load on bases due to stacking and so on, whilst building a whole new system that allows for a similar level of creativity but a lot more user-friendly. I personally believe there's tons of art assets (like swimming pools from Faultline all the way down to Praetorian basketball courts and furniture) that could be added in and help base builders. I love my own SG's base where submarines and ships have been made, but such things could be implemented without having to use stacking (and therefore server memory) surely that would be good all round.



S.

Why destroy old bases? If a new system is desirable, create it and keep it separate from the old system. Introduce dialogue at the registrar for selecting the between legacy and modern base systems, "Warning: The legacy system will not allow you to do as much as the modern system".

If people want to switch, they will. If they don't, they'll have their legacy bases still intact.

I have very active SGs that I've put in a lot of time into building the bases.

If I had the warning that a whole new and improved system was on the way so I could organize the mass saving/sell-off of stored items... yes indeed. Scrap the legacy and give me real beds that don't look like dungeon torture devices.

Give me real floor tilesets and stairs. I want a medical lab that doesn't look like some mad scientists hole (and all these items can be found already in game).

I have a vision for my bases... that doesn't include cabinets as refrigerators or wall grates as walls or trashcans as stove burners. Yes, we've been creative in our works, but if I can have a real fridge (single item) instead of futzing one (3 items minimum) and be able to truly instigate my vision....

Bring. It. On. Want. Nao!

Er... wow. OK, didn't expect this.

But I'm glad it's a civil discussion!

Anyway, my own personal opinion on the matter is for them to do their damndest to track down the original people responsible for the Base System, and get as much info out of them as they can.

Of course, odds are, those people no longer remember anything, but there's always a possibility one does/kept notes/etc.

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Biggest Troll on the forums? I'll give you a hint:

Old legacy maps from the beginning of the game are still around. Places like the original Faultline for instance.

All the Devs would have to do is change any NEW SGs registered over to using a NEW Base editing system ... and leaving the OLD SG Bases in place. At worst, disable the Legacy Editor so that those old bases are "frozen" and can't be edited ... thus "encouraging" (rather than forcing) a migration to the newer system. Old bases remain "operational" (so they aren't trashed outright), while a newer environment editor "takes over" for new (emphasis on the word NEW) construction.

Since both systems live "side-by-side" it should be possible to migrate storage from one system into another at a cost of minimal hassle.

It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...

Would you expect to at least keep your Prestige or with a new system is everyone starting over at zero base resources?

If we end of up with Lairs or a new base system all together, I hope we end up with a save feature similar to what the costume creator has. If someone with better design sense then I made an awesome layout for a workshop and then could share that saved file with me, so I could load their layout in my base, I think that would be really cool.

My concern with the whole "lairs in addition to bases" thing is the server load. My older computer used to go on the fritz any time I entered an SG base. Imagine that, then imagine 1000 other bases, then double that load for Lairs.

At best, what could be done is an "either or" system. This is where an SG leader can opt out of a regular base to go for the "lair" which is identical except for adding new stuff and content and things that will eventually make the old system extinct.


There is an alternate option, but it may be hard. Now, I believe the way SG base storage currently works is they take the various entity IDs, scales, and orientations of all of the items, and then place save them in place. What could be done is, when lairs are made, they could just make aesthetic copies of all of the current items updated with new code, and then once the lair system is ready they can just take the layouts of each base (which may just be a text file), change the files for new code/new items, and then put them back onto the server.

I don't know a whole lot about how the SGs work or about how much the current devs know about the programming, but I don't think we should rule out the idea of simply converting one to another just yet...

Not necessarily. You gotta talk manpower and resources and the actual programming, and before you even begin you have to have the mindset that is willing to go through with it along with the plans you intend to unfold with the new system.

Yeah, I really don't want to lose my base.

I'm fine with rare base love if that's the price for keeping my base.

I would be fine with losing my current bases in order to get fabulous upgrades to the system; and I consider the current system to be clunky and yes, ugly in the extreme.

The nuking of old bases should be done with a minimum of 30 days warning, complete with big warning windows on logging in, and an "URGENT!" email from NCSoft at least once a week, once the countdown begins. Or, offer a legacy system, although why anyone would want to keep a rickety old travel-trailer of a base [and thats what even the best ones look like to me] when they could have a nice new base McMansion is beyond me.

All prestige should be refunded, were this to be done, so people would have funds to rebuild.

I have a few bases I'm either the primary architect for, or one of the primaries for. I'd rather not have them completely nuked out of hand, even with warning; however, none of them would be difficult to reproduce. Well, ok, one of them would be a slight challenge to reproduce, but a better system would make it one heck of a lot easier, so I'm up for that challenge.

However, because of the layouts of those bases, I'd like to be able to run back and forth between the two and see what I'm working from while I'm creating the new one. I'd like the option of nuking the old on my own timetable. This gives me the chance to bring over any stored salvage, insps, and enh as well - which I have remarkably little of, really, in the bases I deal with, but there is some. It also encourages me to get rid of a lot of the stored stuff instead of moving it around.

I'd prefer the option where they turn off all editing (except delete) of the old bases and only permit new bases to be worked on. If they allowed the two bases to run side-by-side, I'd expect an expiration date to be put in - once you start up the new base, you have x days (probably 60, based on the g-mail and old Auction House timers) from the time the new base is started before the old base is completely deleted, all remaining salvage, enh, and insps are lost, and invested prestige is returned to you. Yeah, that's harsh - but the first thing I'd do anyway is toss most of that in safe storage (vault, Auction House, or even new storage in the base, hassle as it is to juggle around).

I am sympathetic to the people who have large, complex bases that they've poured sweat and tears (and no shortage of swear words) into, and I don't want them to lose those - and I've had one of those. I understand. However, I think that the base system is one of those things that needs to be completely ripped out and restarted, because it simply cannot be expanded, or even well maintained, as it is now. The consideration that has been given to bases thus far has tried to give us largely what we wanted; now they have to* give us what we need.

And its gonna suck at first, while we all scramble to rebuild. But then it'll be better.

* Where "have to" is defined as they don't actually have to do anything, but if they're going to do a darn thing of any real size related to the base system, it's going to be related to what needs to be done, not what we'd dearly likely to see, which is all of our hard work maintained and the base system fixed with a magic wand at the same time.