Spoilers: So. What information is there on the Netherworld?


Acerbus_NA

 

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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane View Post
I think given what Prometheus says after you complete the Diabolique trials, that beings who ascend and become their own Well can create dimensions and even life all on their own, I think there's room for a lot of Hells, afterworlds and shadow dimensions each ruled by someone different.
Thanks for the spoiler.


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Posted

To me Netherworld is on another dimension, just like psychic plane, only you pass by it when you die and if you are a bad bad person there's a chance the shadows will take your soul away and remain there and suffer there, until someone summons your soul back only to harness it. It's an evil purgatory. I can imagine there is a never ending discomfort, you feel very negative and rebellious, so much negative energy! No wonder why everything there wants to get out of there and do chaos. After all it's my view of it...


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Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim View Post
Thanks for the spoiler.
No problem.

If you haven't done the Diabolique trial and are not intelligent enough to stop reading after the words "given what Prometheus says after you complete the Diabolique trials", because what comes next is extremely likely to be a spoiler, I'm not going to feel bad; that was your warning.



.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane View Post
I think given *spoiler*, I think there's room for a lot of Hells, afterworlds and shadow dimensions each ruled by someone different.
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As attested to in the Prophecy of Saint Jack:

"Well sure it was a war. And anybody that showed up was gonna join Lem Lee in the Hell of Being Cut to Pieces."
"Hell of being what?"
"Chinese have a lot of Hells."


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Posted

They should do an incarnate zone there!


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane View Post
If you haven't done the Diabolique trial and are not intelligent enough
Instead of putting nice, friendly "SPOILER" text above your reveal, you choose to insult me? Nicely done, champ. You sure showed me and anyone else that hasn't done the trial.


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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill View Post
"Damned" by whoever has (or can tap) enough power to send a soul or being to a specific dimension.
Oh, great. Portal Corp. I guess that's one way to get legislative exemptions.


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Posted

The way I pictured it, the Netherworld was a necessary subspace component to the normal world. Resonating at a different frequency it is an area of inverse potential from the normal fabric of the universe. When this dimensional frequency overlaps with the normal universe, they interact destructively with each other. This preforms work, most of which deals with corroding away material by altering the basic quantum state of the regular universe. This happens when the dimensions overlap, and not the objects in them, however, so a being from the netherworld can pass into the regular world without much of a problem.



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Well. To derail my own thread.. But what Prometheus says about the well and dimensions and stuff.... Could that mean DJ Zero is a Well?


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acerbus_NA View Post
Well. To derail my own thread.. But what Prometheus says about the well and dimensions and stuff.... Could that mean DJ Zero is a Well?
He says that ascended beings can create their own dimensions, but he does not say that only they can.



.


 

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Originally Posted by Dark_Respite View Post
The Netherworld (at least in my interpretation) is The Darkness - the echoes, remnants, etc of life. That which originally was, and will always be alongside the living worlds.

It features heavily in the backstory of my dark/psi defender, Andrea Blake - and for her, the Darkness is sentient. Her darkness powers come from the Netherworld after she died and came back to life, and the more powerful she becomes, the more she becomes an Avatar of the Netherworld. In the end, she becomes an Incarnate of the Netherworld ("an", not "THE").

And every time she's died and come back since that first time, she's left more of an echo of herself there... which someone else finds.

Michelle
aka
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So... the more she dies, the more she levels up?

hmm...
... I think I've got a friend that plays the game using that same mindset. It would explain so much....


 

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From my part of the country the Netherworld is a cheesy haunted house.

As for the Spiritual Plane, I mentally associated it with the DC Comics concept of the Phantom Zone.


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Originally Posted by RosaQuartz View Post
As for the Spiritual Plane, I mentally associated it with the DC Comics concept of the Phantom Zone.
I've always thought of the Shadow Shard as CoH's answer to the Negative Zone/Phantom Zone. Except, you know, boring and empty and not worth exploring.



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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane View Post
I've always thought of the Shadow Shard as CoH's answer to the Negative Zone/Phantom Zone. Except, you know, boring and empty and not worth exploring.
That does describe the Phantom Zone pretty well. That's why being sent there is punishment, just as it is with the Shadow Shard.


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Posted

I find it useful to treat the netherworld (and most metaverse elements) using the "Elephant and the Blind Men" metaphor.

These places are so vast and alien that our minds can't really register them. Much like the blind man encountering the elephant's trunk and thinking its a tree branch, we experience a small piece of a realm that literally defies human comprehension and we try to make sense of it, building up a mythos to support what we see. Other blind men encountering the elephant's tail, ear, or side come up with their own vastly different explanation. None (or very few) of us are capable of seeing the whole thing as it really exists. Trying leads to madness.

This has the advantage of leaving options wide open for the players. They can make what they want out of it without really conflicting with one another.




It could be fun to mix this with the idea that the collective subconscious actually "gives form to the formless." As more "blind men" come to believe in a certain mythos, the collective thoughts creates a "bubble of reality" in the netherworld that matches those beliefs. Charon the ferryman isn't just how we interpret traversing into the netherworld, like the previous example. Our collective belief in him has made Charon real.

Charon may or may not be aware of this. He may believe that he is exactly what the mythos says he is and the netherworld (to him)is the only netherworld... but maybe he's fully aware of the truth. What if he knew that his existence- his entire world's existence- was dependent on our beliefs. Would he try to shape that belief to gain influence in his world? What if he was aware of the other psyche-spawned netherworlds of other cultures? What if they were in competition for believers? What if that competition turned to war?


 

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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane View Post
Except, we have infernal CoT demons which are clearly designed with a fire and brimstone Hell in mind. And we have Hellfrosts, which their info alludes to them being from the lower depths of Hell which is possibly frozen, as in Dante's Divine Comedy.

Also we have Statesman from the Freedom Phalanx novel claiming to have visited Hades as it was known to the Greeks and having met Sisyphus.

I think given what Prometheus says after you complete the Diabolique trials, that beings who ascend and become their own Well can create dimensions and even life all on their own, I think there's room for a lot of Hells, afterworlds and shadow dimensions each ruled by someone different.


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his has always bothered me. the game is SO not religiously sanitized. only in words but not in-game critters.

plenty of hellish critters, and there could reasonably be anti-hell celestial angelic beings. angels are anti-demons [or the other way around]. call them celestial to avoid the 'religious' term of angel. make them combine hyper tech with their wings, weapons, powers or whatever instead of just mystical.

celestial summoning as a MM powerset would fill a lot of gaps and could be done without stepping on any religious toes, in the eact same sense that demons are summoned from the ground via rune circles... and the Cot has hellfrosts.



but about the netherworld. ive always imagined it as the inverse-universe/phantom-zone mentioned. too bad the inverse univers has the same stupid wolf rig that im already sick of and beast mastery isnt even out yet.

call me bitter but id atleast expect options. XD

GAH! all i do is go on tangents. sorry!


 

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Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum View Post
So... the more she dies, the more she levels up?

hmm...
... I think I've got a friend that plays the game using that same mindset. It would explain so much....
Not quite - more like the more she dies, the stronger the echo becomes, and the stronger the link to the Netherworld becomes.

(Although a few people in the Star Patrol have made that joke about Andrea before, given how often she heedlessly charges in...)

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Posted

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Originally Posted by Acerbus_NA View Post
Kinda frustrates me that they never really did make up a blueprint for the CoX multiverse. It makes it difficult(atleast for me) when there is no core rules on dimensions and stuff.

So most people treat the Netherworld as some sort of void plane that is filled with creatures that can shatter your sanity and is the "gas tank" for negative energy?

In essence, going back to the Champions setting, the Netherworld is the Qliphothic Realm? Basically the old worlds that are dying, where gods go to die, where the antithesis of life exists.
Actually they do have a blueprint for the COX verse, there is a story bible. The Main problem with it is that the Devs forget which bits of it we know and which we do not know sometimes.


 

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Originally Posted by ryu_planeswalker View Post
Actually they do have a blueprint for the COX verse, there is a story bible. The Main problem with it is that the Devs forget which bits of it we know and which we do not know sometimes.
You want a blueprint for the CoX multiverse?

Take several different-colored pieces of string.

Roll them into a ball.

Put the ball of string into your pants pocket and put the pants through the wash.

There you go, now you have your very own map of the CoX multiverse.

The "story bible," if there ever was such a thing, was likely thrown aside with the release of CoV, and newer stories ignore even lore that is explicitly stated in-game. Because Posi wants the writers to be able to be creative, dontcha know. The end result is a tangled mess.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eva Destruction View Post
The "story bible," if there ever was such a thing, was likely thrown aside with the release of CoV, and newer stories ignore even lore that is explicitly stated in-game. Because Posi wants the writers to be able to be creative, dontcha know. The end result is a tangled mess.
Apparently they still refer to it. We did get an example of it tossed to us by Sean Fish some time ago - I think talking about the pumicites. Not a lot of info there, and it's not a "Grand plan" of COH layout and lore. Sounded more like COH Cliff Notes, and not everyone reads them.


 

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Originally Posted by GlassGoblin View Post
That does describe the Phantom Zone pretty well. That's why being sent there is punishment, just as it is with the Shadow Shard.
Except our Phantom Zone isn't full of cool alien super criminals for us to battle. It isn't full of anything except grey coning pallet-swapped enemies when you're 50.



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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eva Destruction View Post
The "story bible," if there ever was such a thing, was likely thrown aside with the release of CoV, and newer stories ignore even lore that is explicitly stated in-game. Because Posi wants the writers to be able to be creative, dontcha know. The end result is a tangled mess.
You know, it made me mad when Posi said that about why so many story threads are abandoned. "Writers don't want to write someone else's ideas. They wan't to come up with their own."

You know, if you get hired to write Spider-Man and you don't want to write Spider-Man so you relegate him to a background character and make his book about the new "supporting cast" you introduce, you really shouldn't be writing Spider-Man at all.

I would KILL to write for CoH because I like the universe they've established. And I would love taking raw ideas and fleshing them out and giving them life, even when they're not my own, because to me THAT is the mark of a good writer. Anyone can make up their own stuff, but being able to build on an established foundation of canon and take something someone else started and run with it and make that work and be seamless is a skill far too few writers, let alone comic book writers, possess.

It's real easy to come in, try to pave over everything you don't like and stroke your own ego. It's another thing all together to be the caretaker of something greater.



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To expand a little on what I posted earlier, and give my own thoughts on the various realms:

The Netherworld is the realm of darkness and anti-life, the underworld; it is one of the realms of the dead. Its presence is inimical to life-as-we-know it - when it seeps or is pulled into this realm, or living questers venture there, it saps energy and vitality. A prepared traveler will take precautions against this.

My idea of the Spirit World is strongly formed by WW's Umbra, among other influences (from which they also drew). It's a metaphorical overlay for the "real" world, just on the other side of the mirror - and I mean literally metaphorical, if that makes any sense. Things there take their true form, in a spiritual and moral sense; a spandex-clad hero may appear as a shining knight, while evil and corrupt beings have that inner ugliness made manifest. It is possible, with the Sight and similar gifts, to see into this realm without actually entering it. The Spirit World is vast, possibly infinite; you can stay near the "shore", where it mostly reflects the material world, or venture out into the uncharted and alien frontiers, where things (and the beings encountered) get very strange.


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