So which Praetorians are actually -dead-? (spoilers)
By
Agent White,
Posted on: 2012-03-08 15:43 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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What's hard to grasp about it is that the evidence that he was ever heroic is lacking.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
What's so hard to grasp that he was considered a hero before his fall to villain? Does every character need some mission tied to them for you to accept that they were/are a hero/villain?
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Because he was black ops? Sounds like Captain Fury style hero to me. Not all heroes are noble superman-esque do gooders.
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Originally Posted by Scythus
What's hard to grasp about it is that the evidence that he was ever heroic is lacking.
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BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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True, but it's the type of missions and actions taken during those missions that separate the Nick Furys from the Slade Wilsons. Since Maelstrom seemed to go through team members like peanuts, I'd say he was more a Slade than a Nick.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
Because he was black ops? Sounds like Captain Fury style hero to me. Not all heroes are noble superman-esque do gooders.
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because just being told "Black Ops" is vague and no indicator one way or the other of being heroic. There's nothing that really describes him as heroic, just a vague backstory that could be taken any number of ways. And it's a sad writer that thinks a tiny bit of 'tell' is enough to establish characterization, especially one we're supposed to be sympathetic to because of his 'fall from grace'.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
Because he was black ops? Sounds like Captain Fury style hero to me. Not all heroes are noble superman-esque do gooders.
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Now the highlighted parts always bugged me.|
Originally Posted by Aggelakis
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Military organizations tend to expressly tell you when you get into those sorts of things, 'if you are caught, captured, or in any way compromised, we will disavow your existence and association with us'
Even if they don't say it, you're supposed to know that the 'super-secret, off-the-books' line of work means "YOU GET CAPTURED, YOU ARE DEAD TO US."
And instead of accepting it, Maelstrom whined like a little b@#$%, got all emo, and grew out a non-regulatory haircut.
I cannot believe Emperor Cole found a guy who could not accept basic facts of paramilitary operations a useful soldier.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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Nope. It's the sign of someone who is either naive and idealistic (and likely to wind up dead fast) or of a sociopath and borderline psychopath.|
Originally Posted by Aggelakis
He signed up to be a soldier. That is the mudder fudding epitome of hero.
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And that's in the words of an actual soldier, speaking outside of all the propaganda and red tape.
/tangent
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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>Samuel L Jackson Voice|
Originally Posted by BrandX
Because he was black ops? Sounds like Captain Fury style hero to me. Not all heroes are noble superman-esque do gooders.
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Nick Fury wasn't a *****
/Samuel L Jackson Voice
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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So...he does look like a *****?|
Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel
And instead of accepting it, Maelstrom whined like a little b@#$%, got all emo, and grew out a non-regulatory haircut.
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/Samuel L Jackson
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Thread not drifting *too* far off-topic...
Re-Direct:
Seems to me that most of the Praetorians don't have to be dead, per se (Seige/Nightstar are AIs, Mayhem can mind-ride, etc.), though I know that there has been some discussion among the Devs here that suggests they intend for at least a few of them to have actually died.
I'm just wondering if the aforementioned Infernal or Black Swan will show up at all in later ITrials or elsewhere, myself.
I wish Maelstrom got more actual screen time. He has a great backstory and actual depth. Desdemona is just "DAT BOOTY" & "MY PARENTS ARE DEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD"
I'm guessing Siege and Nightstar can be reinstalled into new copy bodies if they have their systems backed up.
http://www.virtueverse.net/wiki/Shadow_Mokadara
A careers advice guy from the Army came to our school when I was young, and gave out leaflets etc and talked about how you could learn to be a mechanic or a doctor or whatever in the Army. He was talking about the side of military service involving like building wells in the desert not killing people and driving tanks etc. After his talk, he asked if anyone would consider joining, and one kid said "Yeah, but not because i could learn how to be a mechanic - I want to throw hand grenades at people and shoot a gun."
That kid left school without much in the way of qualifications, and joined the Army. No idea where he is now.
Eco
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
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Same thing happened to the A-Team, and they're still heroic!|
Originally Posted by Aggelakis
Due to connections, he got into black ops. Blacker and blacker, all the way toward vigilante, and finally his government said "no go!" and he totally went whackball.
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I pity the fool who thinks otherwise.
Global name: @k26dp
Maelstrom may have been heroic at one point, but that's all strictly in the background material. By the point we see him in game he's just an arrogant jerk. His first act to work his way into the Praetorian hierarchy was to murder his partner.
Lord Recluse has the same claim to having once been as hero as Maelstrom does. He served in the US armed forces during World War One.
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@Inquisitor
Of all the Praetorian villains, I actually feel sorry for Mother Mayhem. Reading her dialogue, it's obvious she is not all there, there's something seriously wrong with that woman. Delusional, perhaps?
You have to wonder what kind of person she might have become had she gotten treatment for whatever her problems were.
A (Golden Gate) Bridge Too Far- arc 299315
Crazy NIMBY's, Railroad robber barons, and kickboxing Engineers, Oh My! Go back in time and join the fight to save a San Francisco icon!
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Tyrant was once a hero, wasn't he? Then he decided he was more of a god to be in charge.
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Originally Posted by Mr_Morbid
Maelstrom may have been heroic at one point, but that's all strictly in the background material. By the point we see him in game he's just an arrogant jerk. His first act to work his way into the Praetorian hierarchy was to murder his partner.
Lord Recluse has the same claim to having once been as hero as Maelstrom does. He served in the US armed forces during World War One. |
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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Thing is, Maelstrom has always thought of himself as heroic. As he sees things, he's doing the right thing, and everyone else is the villain. While we- as players and player characters- might view Maelstrom as evil, or misguided, or murderous, or deranged- in his mind, and in the minds of many others (if only due to Praetoria's misinformation network) he is a hero. So whether he is meant to represent the side-switching "Hero to Villain" aspect of Going Rogue, or just meant to represent the shades of grey mentality that expansion brought into the game, he is certainly supposed to be heroic from someone's point of view.|
Originally Posted by Mr_Morbid
Maelstrom may have been heroic at one point, but that's all strictly in the background material. By the point we see him in game he's just an arrogant jerk. His first act to work his way into the Praetorian hierarchy was to murder his partner.
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As to the other Praetorians (redirect #2), I'm hoping that we see some more of Chimera going forward. Perhaps Chimera will step in when Cole inevitably goes down (and he- I suspect- will be a for certain death). Maybe a power struggle between Chimera and Provost Marchand?
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Actually he's not all that arrogant. He knew he couldn't defeat the Hamidon, during the final battle he struck a deal with it that if he could shape humanity into an ideal society that they would be spared Hamidons wrath. That's why he created the whole tyrannical mind control system, to pacify folks into peace so they wouldn't be turned into monster chow. It's one of those 'wrong for the right reasons' deals.
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Originally Posted by SwellGuy
Tyrant was once a hero, wasn't he? Then he decided he was more of a god to be in charge.
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Well, the first thing he did after drinking from the well was murder his best friend.
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Originally Posted by SwellGuy
Tyrant was once a hero, wasn't he? Then he decided he was more of a god to be in charge.
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_________
@Inquisitor
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Cuz he knew his best friend would be evil! |
Originally Posted by Mr_Morbid
Well, the first thing he did after drinking from the well was murder his best friend.
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total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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He turned vigilante! |
Originally Posted by MrCaptainMan
That kid left school without much in the way of qualifications, and joined the Army. No idea where he is now. |
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I think that's all down to his arrogance - he thinks he's so special - plus he has an obsession with loyalty.
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Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel
Now the highlighted parts always bugged me.
Military organizations tend to expressly tell you when you get into those sorts of things, 'if you are caught, captured, or in any way compromised, we will disavow your existence and association with us' Even if they don't say it, you're supposed to know that the 'super-secret, off-the-books' line of work means "YOU GET CAPTURED, YOU ARE DEAD TO US." And instead of accepting it, Maelstrom whined like a little b@#$%, got all emo, and grew out a non-regulatory haircut. |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Which is utterly ironic for someone that's committed high treason
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
I think that's all down to his arrogance - he thinks he's so special - plus he has an obsession with loyalty.
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I think that in his mind, his total loyalty wasn't repaid, so as far as he's concerned, he's just betraying the people who betrayed him.|
Originally Posted by Agent White
Which is utterly ironic for someone that's committed high treason
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Tyrant reapys his loyalty, so he's loyal to him.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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I actually think I have to agree with you here.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
I think that's all down to his arrogance - he thinks he's so special - plus he has an obsession with loyalty.
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So the sad thing is, while Maelstrom's story is a bit more winding, there's really not much more depth to it than Desdemona's. Even sadder, it kind of goes to show there never was much in the way of a hero in Maelstrom. Only a prideful soldier who thought he deserved to be seen and treated as the best.
Click here to find all the All Things Art Threads!
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
|
What's so hard to grasp that he was considered a hero before his fall to villain? Does every character need some mission tied to them for you to accept that they were/are a hero/villain?
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection