So which Praetorians are actually -dead-? (spoilers)
Shadowhunter must wish that he was still alive to use Beast mastery
@Golden Girl
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Given that before his betrayal, Maelstrom was a U.S. Citizen and special forces agent AND THEN COMMITTED HIGH TREASON against his native country, we might have locked him up but I'm pretty sure the CIA's seen to it he's dead or has been 'interrogated' into mental oblivion.
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Given that before his betrayal, Maelstrom was a U.S. Citizen and special forces agent AND THEN COMMITTED HIGH TREASON against his native country, we might have locked him up but I'm pretty sure the CIA's seen to it he's been put back on the payroll. |
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"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
Honestly Mael seems more like a candidate for Malta than Battle Maiden. But he doesn't have a nifty halberd, or boobs. Unless the maelstrom device was hiding more than we know
... still don't honestly get how he was intended to represent vigilantes. he's just a straight up villain from day 1. Kind of curious if we'll see any more interaction with him and Twinshot, or if that was purely a one off thing as a hamfisted red herring.
Siege - Defeated in the BAF, also Metronome is riding around in his carcass like a new suit sooo I'm guessing he might be dead-dead, if there aren't any back ups of his AI around.
So, that's about it. Did I miss anything? |
Originally Posted by Maria Jenkins
Siege used to have a body that was similar to Citadel's, but he long since abandonded it once the new model Clockwork bodies came online. Now he hops from shell to shell for whatever he feels is appropriate for the job at hand.
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Given that we defeated Marauder in his home dimension, in his own SG base, I don't assume that he's dead or arrested. I assume that when his corpse despawns, it's him mediporting out, not us arrest teleporting him. I'm willing to be wrong about this, but that's how it looks to me.
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#23. Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy other people to shoot at.
#46. If you can't remember, the Claymore is pointed towards you.
#54. Killing for peace is like screwing for virginity.
Save for the fact that he never once acts heroic. Ever. I count Maelstrom as a straight up villain through and through.
![](http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy70/KojiroJames/neversurrendersig.jpg)
yeah, that's kind of my point. He's never heroic, at all. He's just a jerkass from the first time you meet him.
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@Golden Girl
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yeah, that's kind of my point. He's never heroic, at all. He's just a jerkass from the first time you meet him.
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He entered the military at the earliest convenience and never had a problem accepting the orders of a superior officer. His loyalty and devotion (as well as the connections his father had before he was killed) saw Eddie promoted into a super-secret black ops division of the military. His loyalty never wavered and his devotion was only strengthened with every off-the-books mission he performed. That is until the one day he was captured and disavowed by the very government that he swore to uphold. |
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Yeah, I'm still not seeing the "heroism" either.
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...so you're basically saying that being a soldier isn't heroic. Hoo, boy! *runs away from the ensuing firefight*
He signed up to be a soldier. That is the mudder fudding epitome of hero.
Due to connections, he got into black ops. Blacker and blacker, all the way toward vigilante, and finally his government said "no go!" and he totally went whackball.
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...so you're basically saying that being a soldier isn't heroic. Hoo, boy! *runs away from the ensuing firefight*
He signed up to be a soldier. That is the mudder fudding epitome of hero. Due to connections, he got into black ops. Blacker and blacker, all the way toward vigilante, and finally his government said "no go!" and he totally went whackball. |
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No one goes there anymore, it's too crowded...
"The potato goes in the FRONT."
I never once said black ops part was heroic. He signed up to be a soldier. Through his connections, he was eventually promoted to black ops. The part before the black ops is pretty frikken heroic. You cannot tell me that someone who signs up to be a soldier is not a hero. You cannot. Simply cannot. No matter the reasons behind the sign-up, the result is a gol' durn hero. Period, end of story. What happens after that is completely irrelevant.
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Most villains usually are decent folks and only think they're doing right before they turned toward evil. Darth Vader, anyone?
Because of this, the "secret origin" is hardly relevant as we know the character now. When we're first introduced to Maelstrom in Praetoria, he's a villain. Period. We never see his fall.
![](http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy70/KojiroJames/neversurrendersig.jpg)
being a soldier doesn't make you a hero anymore than being a football player makes you a Hall of Famer... some soldiers are without question heroes... it's the actions taken while in that role that can lead you to being a hero not the role it's self... but I know what you meant, I just felt like being nit-picky...
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You honor soldiers of your country because they choose to serve for the 'greater interest' of its people. The ideal of a soldier is heroic, but not simply 'being' a soldier. For all we know, he could have signed up to be a soldier for the chance to shoot people.
By that definition, my utterly malevolent namesake, Scythus, was a "do-gooder turned evil" simply because his intents to unravel the mysteries of string theory were completely for the betterment of science. But when his device exploded and he was caught between our reality and the Netherworld and went insane, his villainy began.
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Most villains usually are decent folks and only think they're doing right before they turned toward evil. Darth Vader, anyone? |
Because of this, the "secret origin" is hardly relevant as we know the character now. When we're first introduced to Maelstrom in Praetoria, he's a villain. Period. We never see his fall. |
HOWEVER... that's neither here nor there when it comes to the topic of this thread and as such, I will stop participating in this threadjack.
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This is correct. However, the secret origin is certainly relevant when it comes to being a posterboy for hero-turned-villain.
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A better poster boy for fallen heroes is Doc Quantum. We actually witness him becoming less and less ethical as time goes on until he completely crosses the red line.
And as Agent White said, for all we know, Maelstrom could have enlisted simply to have the chance to shoot people. There are, in fact, unfortunately a lot of soldiers that're like that.
![](http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy70/KojiroJames/neversurrendersig.jpg)
The British sure would, yes, indeed. (Perhaps not all modern British would, but certainly a large majority way back when.)
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Yes, there certainly are soldiers who are heroic and perform acts of heroism.
There are also soldiers who turn machine guns on unarmed, naked people.
Ok so the Praetorian War has been going on for a while and we've taken down well over half of the major baddies. But which ones have actually been killed and which just 'defeated'? Dark Astoria gives us a fair amount of hints, as have some of the newer trials.
![Big Grin](images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
More specifically, Praetor Duncan's arc says outright that Praetoria is falling apart and most of the Praetors are dead or missing. So, let's see who is accounted for!
Anti-Matter - Taken down in the Keyes Island incarnate trial. However, Metronome in the MoM trial explicitly tells the PC he wished we Incarnates had killed AM. So, defeated, whereabouts unknown.
Battle Maiden - Defeated in the Apex taskforce, Vanguard put her in lock up. Malta broke her out to upgrade their equipment to deal with Incarnates. Definitely alive.
Black Swan - Unseen since defeating her in Maria Jenkins arc.
Bobcat - Taken down with Neuron in the Tin mage Taskforce. Going to assume she's likewise locked up as Battle Maiden was.
Chimera - Alive and the new Praetorian gadget man as of Dark Astoria's timeline.
Diabolique - Presumably made non-existant by the Dream Doctor at the end of Dilemma Diabolique.
Dominatrix - Alive but considering turning traitor after DA.
Infernal - Unseen since defeating him in Maria Jenkins arc.
Maelstrom - Defeated at the end of TPN iTrial, presumably locked up.
Malaise - Defeated with Shalice Tilman in Minds of Mayehm. Presumably dead since Mother Mayhem basically mind ***** him and no one bothered pulling him out of the Seer Network when we severed Shalice.
Marauder - Defeated in the Lamnda Sector trial. Presumably locked up.
Mother Mayhem - Presumably dead as of MoM, but hinted that she may still survive it.
Neuron - Defeated in the Tin Mage Taskforce. However, Anti-Matter makes note that he's glad we 'got rid' of him. So possibly dead?
Nightstar - Defeated in the BAF iTrial. Since she's just a robot, potentially just dead.
Shadowhunter - Murdered by the Praetorian Devouring Earth. Ensured to stay dead thanks to the Maria Jenkins mission.
Siege - Defeated in the BAF, also Metronome is riding around in his carcass like a new suit sooo I'm guessing he might be dead-dead, if there aren't any back ups of his AI around.
Tyrant - Alive and kicking!
So, that's about it. Did I miss anything?