The Root Problem.
I can take on hordes of enemies at the same time. That feels pretty heroic to me. I can wipe out a spawn full of enemies in a few seconds. That's pretty awesome and powerful. I can now call down the power of the gods to help me smite foes. Awesome-sauce!
Yes, there are a few times when you can feel less powerful, but they're usually fleeting and easily done. So I don't get how this is a widespread concern.
ED happened, yes, but allowed us to have the invention system, which allows you more flexibility in what you can do with your character, so I consider than a net win.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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I like to play games where I am the hero. City of Heroes used to provide that. It's a shame, and a loss, that the game no longer respects that simple element of escapist play.
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If this is one of the main things you have to complain about then this game is treating you pretty good all things considered.
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Completely serious, GG. You should know me better than that.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
City of Heroes isn't about the players. The devs are telling stories and benevolently allowing us along on the ride.
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I actually enjoyed the part where we got to learn somebody else's story. That was a very neat touch, and so long as it doesn't get flogged to death I like it.
You might not like that element of it... and I'm not a huge fan of the revamped DA so far - but that's because I'm not a fan of Horror... but horror is a huge comicbook tradition, and so needs a place in Paragon. But even then it works for me and the DD trial in my limited experience is far to superior than the turd soup of the TPN for example.
I've not managed to explore all of I22 but I'm impressed with what I've seen so far (mostly). In one sense the OP seems rather ironic: He wants to RP in his own head [which is totally fine IMO] and being given some insight into the motivations and thoughts of the NPCs he interacts with is a problem? ermmmm?
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Thelonious Monk
I have to respectfully disagree with the OP's overall thesis, while agreeing with some of the examples. Yes, there have been obvious instances of railroading PCs in support of NPCs, but (with the exception of the SSA so far) their numbers have been declining. The enormous groups needed for iTrials do make you feel more like a soldier than a hero, but that's just the nature of MMO end-game content (or so they tell me). And to be honest, I didn't know that the epilogues at the end of the DA arcs aren't skippable, mainly because I've loved doing them.
But feeling super-powered? Yeah, I've got that in spades, even when soloing my pathetically misbegotten Emp/Psi defender, and when my brute leaps into a bunch of Nazis and stomps her foot to send them flying everywhere, man, that's golden.
To give you the level of "star power" I gather you'd prefer, the game would probably need to be single-player, or limit teams to 3-4 players, tops. Until then, we're all going to have to share the world, and that means sharing the limelight with other players, and with the NPCs that provide the icons for starting heroes to emulate.
@Glass Goblin - Writer, brainstormer, storyteller, hero
Though nothing will drive them away
We can beat them, just for one day
We can be heroes, just for one day
Personal story missions in the 1-20 GR content would have been epic.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Maybe I missed a trial. The incarnate trials all require 18-24 people to zerg into Praetoria and beat up on one or two people who *should* have the same power level as I do. I blew up the BAF, took down Marauder who was SOO much more powerful than I because he drank his juice that day, and then I attacked Antimatter who blew me up a dozen times before my 'heroic' team managed to unplug his equipment. As for the Underground trial, it's so confusing and badly-designed that I don't know what the hell the story was there, except that I'm clearly not meant to be the hero in it -- Desdemona was. I was one of twenty-four keystone-kop-themed escorts.
What part of liberating Praetoria *was* heroic? Did it even happen? I may have blinked and missed it.
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New Webcomic -- Genocide Man
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The enormous groups needed for iTrials do make you feel more like a soldier than a hero, but that's just the nature of MMO end-game content (or so they tell me).
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To give you the level of "star power" I gather you'd prefer, the game would probably need to be single-player, or limit teams to 3-4 players, tops. |
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New Webcomic -- Genocide Man
Life is funny. Death is funnier. Mass slaughter can be hilarious.
I must be wired backwards.
I know exactly how powerful my main is... and he's REALLY powerful. The fact that I'm facing enemies that require over a dozen people just as strong as me to defeat just impresses on me how powerful my enemies actually are and how important it is they be defeated.
And I feel damn heroic when we win.
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
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Also disagree. Since returning I feel like my characters are much... 'bigger'... for participating in the incarnate stuff. Can't wait to get my new characters up there after trying it out with my old blaster. Lots more recharge and endurance regeneration in the game now, too. That was always the point when I stopped feeling heroic, getting tired in the middle of fighting four guys was annoying. 'Fitness' was a pool power lol...
It's strange you talk about the past. When was getting beat up by devil worshipping thugs heroic? When a pile of Vahzilok all barfed on you and killed you, did you feel like Superman? Maybe it was when you herded and punched six guys standing 'inside' eachother that immersion was at it's finest, or perhaps when your ice tank was instagibbed on the '5th hit' or whatever it was that you felt on top of the world.
CoH/V is the only game I come back to and repeatedly find it's better than when I left it.
Not sure how a MMO that caters to thousands at once is supposed to make a singular character be as special as the OP seems to desire. I hear you, and see your point, but really not sure if it's doable in COH, or any other MMO, really.
I'd love a single player 'sandbox' type 'superpowers' game that had the customization and power selection of COH (with the feature like many console sandbox game have, allowing select friends to join you in your world); I'd be all over that. Such a game could really make you feel like you are (or can become) the center of the universe, like the Fable games can do.
But in an MMO, such expectations must be tempered, I'm afraid...
So basically, my mary sue isn't mary sue enough, it needs to be all about me me me.
A whole world involves a lot of stories, and a lot of characters, and a lot of stories to -those- characters. A good world tells us those stories and makes us like those characters, instead of just making them cardboard cutouts that spout meaningless jargon and tired phrases. Making every single little thing focused entirely on the singular player character makes it really hard to tell stories in different ways all the time and advance the overall storylines of the game. I much prefer feeling like I'm a part of the world instead of the dead center of it with all eyes on me because to me, that breaks the illusion more because even in a superhero genre it's unrealistic and just plain silly. I like having a starring role, but if the world is going to get fleshed out in any kind of proper way I'm going to have to share the spotlight. Maybe it doesn't stroke my ego as much as it could, I'd rather enjoy the cool stories than be told how awesome I am and how the universe rests on my shoulders for the umpteenth time.
I must be wired backwards.
I know exactly how powerful my main is... and he's REALLY powerful. The fact that I'm facing enemies that require over a dozen people just as strong as me to defeat just impresses on me how powerful my enemies actually are and how important it is they be defeated. And I feel damn heroic when we win. |
Not sure how a MMO that caters to thousands at once is supposed to make a singular character be as special as the OP seems to desire. I hear you, and see your point, but really not sure if it's doable in COH, or any other MMO, really.
I'd love a single player 'sandbox' type 'superpowers' game that had the customization and power selection of COH (with the feature like many console sandbox game have, allowing select friends to join you in your world); I'd be all over that. Such a game could really make you feel like you are (or can become) the center of the universe, like the Fable games can do. But in an MMO, such expectations must be tempered, I'm afraid... |
I don't need their backstory; I'm making it up as I play. That's the point of a role-playing game. Many of these NPCs I don't even like. Why must I be forced to play as them, or witness their heroic deeds while I'm stuck on the sidelines? It makes for a bad, bad, bad game.
...
New Webcomic -- Genocide Man
Life is funny. Death is funnier. Mass slaughter can be hilarious.
![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
It's strange you talk about the past. When was getting beat up by devil worshipping thugs heroic? When a pile of Vahzilok all barfed on you and killed you, did you feel like Superman?
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But note that I'm not talking about power level. I'm talking about the focus of the game. Difficulty can be tweaked and so on, but when the story puts an NPC in the starring role -- as almost all the stories have in the past year -- then it's not a game about me and my characters.
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New Webcomic -- Genocide Man
Life is funny. Death is funnier. Mass slaughter can be hilarious.
If some new lore disagrees with what I've dreamt up, then I adapt and come up with something new. I assume everyone else is doing the same with their characters, if they role-play at all. Players build upon the given lore with their own stories.
But forcing lore down a player's throat where the NPC is the star? I'm not interested. They're bit players in my story. It should never be the other way around.
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New Webcomic -- Genocide Man
Life is funny. Death is funnier. Mass slaughter can be hilarious.
I've shifted from spending all of my effort to survive to just cutting loose and shooting in all directions until I stop hearing return fire.
In either case, I've felt "heroic" in other gameplay circumstances besides DA and also DA, so if I'm not allowed to, I am apparently allowed to break the rules.
As to the personal stories: I consider those nothing more than interactive cut scenes. I think it detracts from my own gameplay experience about as much as the loading screens of the game do, that also don't have me in them. I am still the central character in all of my gameplay: I always have been. What's happening in the rest of the world is what's happening in the rest of the world. I'm not the most powerful person in the Real World either but I am still the central actor in my own life. Watching the news and noticing I'm not in it does not change that fact. Knowing more about the NPCs that I'm interacting with and seeing some of their story doesn't change the importance of my story to me.
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I don't need their backstory; I'm making it up as I play. That's the point of a role-playing game.
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Far from being the point of a role playing game, I'm unaware of any role playing game MMO or otherwise where the player gets to dictate the backstory of the environment outside their own characters.
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Sure it is. Did you know that Maria Jenkins was my blaster's schoolteacher? Does it matter to you? Not at all. It doesn't affect your play one bit if my characters' backstories weave into the lore of the game. In fact, that's the entire point of playing a role-playing game.
If some new lore disagrees with what I've dreamt up, then I adapt and come up with something new. I assume everyone else is doing the same with their characters, if they role-play at all. Players build upon the given lore with their own stories. But forcing lore down a player's throat where the NPC is the star? I'm not interested. They're bit players in my story. It should never be the other way around. |
Yes, it's a whining thread. Skip if you choose.
Yesterday I ran across a 'feature' in CoH that looks a lot like a bug, and I think it illustrates the root problem the game has been having for a few years now. Speaking only from personal experience -- although I know there are others with the same opinion -- the game has been lackluster and boring, our characters no longer feel 'super', and in general the fantastic escape that CoH used to offer just isn't there anymore.
The bug was simple to find. I'm playing the Dark Astoria arcs. Got through the contact 'Max', skipping the personal mission for each contact, when I found that next contact won't speak to me. The cause appears to be that the personal missions are all marked as part of their contacts' plot arcs, instead of being free-standing missions. There's a limit on how many plot arcs you can have open at a time. In order to finish the DA content, we are forced to play the personal missions where we are not controlling our own character.
The purpose of a superhero game -- or, really, any interactive role-playing game -- is to make the player feel like the hero. Now we're being explicitly forced to play content as NPCs to whom we have no attachment.
We haven't been allowed to feel heroic for a long time. Incarnate content blurred the ATs together and required stupidly large teams to do anything, so that the player felt like just another cog in the machine and a weak one at that. The Signature Mission arcs allow our characters to punch a few enemies in the backdrop while the real story takes place with the real heroes -- we're supporting actors, at best, in a movie about the Freedom Force. I could stretch back as far as ED as the first time that some dev mandated 'thou shalt not feel heroic'.
But now it's blatant. They're not being subtle anymore. City of Heroes isn't about the players. The devs are telling stories and benevolently allowing us along on the ride.
Look, I'll be honest; sometimes I think that there's one and only one change to the game that would make me instantly re-subscribe my VIP status. If they only allowed us to make Supergroups out of our own characters I would be happy. Because it would allow me to build a home, and tell stories with a stable of characters of my own, even if only in my own head. As it is now, however, I have characters strewn through a dozen different abandoned SGs that are all ghost towns. I'm haunted by hundreds of abandoned characters who also thought that the game was about them. This is another symptom of the root dysfunction of this game: We cannot be allowed to inhabit SGs of our own, because it might make us think that the game is about us. It's not. It never will be again.
I like to play games where I am the hero. City of Heroes used to provide that. It's a shame, and a loss, that the game no longer respects that simple element of escapist play.
...
New Webcomic -- Genocide Man
Life is funny. Death is funnier. Mass slaughter can be hilarious.