Itrials future problem.
By
Aura_Familia,
Posted on: 2012-03-06 14:40 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Quote:
Certain ATs have always been more desirable than others, that's not new nor specific to trials or the lrsf. |
Originally Posted by Shubbie
We are already starting to see the LRSF problem rear its ugly head again in itrails.
Cor/def/Brute/Tank wanted, everyone else go take a hike. Control has little to no value on itrials other than Baf, which is so easy as to be meaningless. Cor/def/brute has so much damage that blasters are meaningless. Stalkers... well they are better but still kinda weaker than brutes. Scrappers are fine, but it seems like brutes are preffered. And MM's are pretty much right out, having swarms of pets all over the place does nothing to make a trial less confusing. ITs really not too bad till you get to MoM and DD, but if the next generation of incarnate uses new something/ currency/ merits/ components. We could see an entire tier locked to half the AT's of the game. |
However, I've never seen people denied spots on trials due to their AT, and TBH that won't be happening any time soon in a casual game like this. Unless of course you're dealing with a bad crowd, but that's not the game's fault, it's just bad player mentality, where you could easily be teaming with other people who don't have such a mentality.
Stalkers have just been given a lot of love, they now have more hp and are able to use as out of hide effectively. As for mm's and trollers nothing new there. I only play them solo myself.
What is the basis of this information? Blasters with crashless Nukes tear stuff up during iTrials. /Mental Blasters and Dominators, Controllers, Defenders, and Masterminds all have debuffs that are invaluable for the AV fights. Stalkers and Scrappers are both able to bring DPS to the table in order to speed up those AV fights, too- Getting through fights quickly is definitely a plus on an Incarnate league. If anything is obsolete during Incarnate Trials, it's Tanks. Brutes with taunt are able to pull/tank and do much more damage to boot. That's not to say that Tanks don't have a place or can't be useful, but I think their role is the only one that's significantly overshadowed by other AT's.
Quote:
It seems to be getting worse lately.|
Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
Certain ATs have always been more desirable than others, that's not new nor specific to trials or the lrsf.
However, I've never seen people denied spots on trials due to their AT, and TBH that won't be happening any time soon in a casual game like this. Unless of course you're dealing with a bad crowd, but that's not the game's fault, it's just bad player mentality, where you could easily be teaming with other people who don't have such a mentality. |
Oh you dont remember when the LRSF was hard, and the only teams that made it were 6 cor's, 1 brute and 1 pity spot.
It was actually called the pity spot, because you only got in out of pity because you werent playing the UBER builds.
And Im starting to see that mentality come back again with the two newer trials. And Im really worried if next set of trials comes out, we might be right back into the LRSF problem.
They made the LRSF problem go away by nerfing it into the toilet.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
Quote:
Most blaster builds dont have crashless nukes, and a Cor can often equal or near equal a blaster while providing support, sometimes at the same time.|
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
What is the basis of this information? Blasters with crashless Nukes tear stuff up during iTrials. /Mental Blasters and Dominators, Controllers, Defenders, and Masterminds all have debuffs that are invaluable for the AV fights. Stalkers and Scrappers are both able to bring DPS to the table in order to speed up those AV fights, too- Getting through fights quickly is definitely a plus on an Incarnate league. If anything is obsolete during Incarnate Trials, it's Tanks. Brutes with taunt are able to pull/tank and do much more damage to boot. That's not to say that Tanks don't have a place or can't be useful, but I think their role is the only one that's significantly overshadowed by other AT's.
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I said scrappers are fine, and even tanks are fine, though its usually only 1 tank per 24 or 16 people depending on the trial.
MM's have the debuff's but they are HATED during trials, clogging up halls and adding confusion especialy since the pets scale very poorly.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
Quote:
...yet. They really need to update that. *hint hint*
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Most blaster builds dont have crashless nukes.
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Quote:
I remember quite well the early days of the LRSF. I ran it 1-4 times every day with the same group, we ran 7 corrs and 1 brute with 5-7 venges every time, but that's just cause it was most efficient that way.|
Originally Posted by Shubbie
It seems to be getting worse lately.
Oh you dont remember when the LRSF was hard, and the only teams that made it were 6 cor's, 1 brute and 1 pity spot. It was actually called the pity spot, because you only got in out of pity because you werent playing the UBER builds. And Im starting to see that mentality come back again with the two newer trials. And Im really worried if next set of trials comes out, we might be right back into the LRSF problem. They made the LRSF problem go away by nerfing it into the toilet. |
However the issue of ATs not being desirable wasn't exclusive to LRSFs and I absolutely don't see stacked teams made deliberately like that anymore, unless people are doing themed runs.
Quote:
The ones that do are very useful though. They're providing more AOE than any other single player aside from Judgement which everyone has. /Mental also has a regen debuff that can be made perma- That goes for Doms too.|
Originally Posted by Shubbie
Most blaster builds dont have crashless nukes, and a Cor can often equal or near equal a blaster while providing support, sometimes at the same time.
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Quote:
| I said scrappers are fine, and even tanks are fine, though its usually only 1 tank per 24 or 16 people depending on the trial. |
Quote:
| MM's have the debuff's but they are HATED during trials, clogging up halls and adding confusion especialy since the pets scale very poorly. |
Quote:
Blasters need almost a rebuild from the ground up.|
Originally Posted by Necrotron_RO
...yet. They really need to update that. *hint hint*
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Snipes are useless, crashing nukes are nearly useless, and blasters need real mez protection and secondary revamp on most of the secondaries.
Wont hold my breath for this.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
Quote:
TPN Says hi!
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Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
The ones that do are very useful though. They're providing more AOE than any other single player aside from Judgement which everyone has. /Mental also has a regen debuff that can be made perma- That goes for Doms too.
I expressed my feeling on Tanks. I just wanted to address more AT's in my post to present my feelings about them. Most trials primarily take place in open environments. Masterminds can be incredibly useful on I-Trials if they manage their pets appropriately. |
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
Dominators do reasonable, damage and controllers have their secondary.
Bust more trial mobs are either immune or highly resistant to controls.
Now they would be very usefull on the DA stuff, if the DA content presented anything resembling a realistic reward.
Just cutting off an AT's primary isnt going to endear it to anyone.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
Quote:
Masterminds take your 'hi' and raise you a 'badass'|
Originally Posted by Shubbie
TPN Says hi!
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http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=285278
Quote:
Yes yes, an organized team on Vent can do just about anything.|
Originally Posted by Mad Grim
Masterminds take your 'hi' and raise you a 'badass'
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=285278 |
Masterminds in general on a pickup TPN are bad news. And its not even the camera's, its the narrow halls, its a real mess.
And this is about more than just MM's.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
I have not remotely seen evidence of what the OP is describing. I've been playing and contributing on trials on all ATs, and have never been denied because of my AT.
They only stipulation I've seen is league leaders for UG, TPN, and MoM wanting at least +2 incarnates.
Global name: @k26dp
Ive just seen it start to pop up again
UG and TPN usually want +1, Mom and DD +2 or +3
And I have seen alot of Mom looking for more support only.
But what really worries me is if they change something of the currency for the next level of incarnate requiring harder trials, which could leave alot of builds out of the game.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
Quote:
You realize those trials have level shifted enemies on them, right?|
Originally Posted by Shubbie
Ive just seen it start to pop up again
UG and TPN usually want +1, Mom and DD +2 or +3 And I have seen alot of Mom looking for more support only. But what really worries me is if they change something of the currency for the next level of incarnate requiring harder trials, which could leave alot of builds out of the game. |
UG has 54+1, MoM and TPN have 54+2, DD has 54+3.
You can't do anything significant to a +7 foe no matter what you are.
Quote:
I have no trouble with the level shift requirement.|
Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
You realize those trials have level shifted enemies on them, right?
UG has 54+1, MoM and TPN have 54+2, DD has 54+3. You can't do anything significant to a +7 foe no matter what you are. |
I do have a problem with requiring support only or something like no stalkers.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
No serious offense intended, Shubbie, but you have often seemed a bit like Chicken Little on this particular note. I've seen you post things like this over the years. It would be dumb of me to say things like this never happen, but I almost never see them. I have been denied a spot on a team exactly once, and it was a Halloween banner team, where the leader kicked my /Rad controller because I was not 50. (The depths of dumb that entails boggle me to this day.)
Dumb people will be dumb. Don't play with dumb people. None of the iTrials call for the sorts of exclusions you're talking about. At most, they call for attention to whether people have sufficient plusses. This game is too easy for people to sweat much else, even in its end game. It is vastly more important that people invite non-dumb players than the "right" ATs.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
I don't see this as a problem. The only problem I see is how fast they have been raising the cap from +1 to +3.
I've not seen any AT being useless, so long as they are willing to adapt. MMs have to take extra care of their pets. Blasters can't just run off and blap around.
And I have never seen anyone call for x over anything else. The only thing I've seen close to that is calls for /dark or Widows on MoMoM runs, but they will take anything.
Quote:
Question: What server are you playing on?|
Originally Posted by Shubbie
We could see an entire tier locked to half the AT's of the game.
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I have never seen people rejected for the AT they're playing on the servers I usually play on (mostly Pinnacle). League leaders basically can't turn people down because getting a full league can be very time-consuming if they're picky. Yes, people will sometimes alt if the league needs a particular AT that it's lacking (often a taunter in Keyes). But that's not the same as locking out half the ATs.
Perhaps you need to create a character in a friendlier venue.
I play almost exclusive on freedom and am never turned down not even when I bring my stalker with a pvp build. People only really care about the lvl shifts from what I've seen.
I lead trials on Exalted pretty much daily and I take the first 16/24 that come along without looking. This has led me to a whopping four failed trials across a pretty decent-sized stretch of time. I make arrangements, ask the league how the teams look, then take their input and let them alt accordingly [I]if they offer[I]. Denying someone because of their AT is wrong, denying someone because they aren't shifted is wrong... period.
You can change the shift situation at any time.
You cant change your AT or powerset choice after creation.
Its allright to exclude for shift, its not allright for AT or powerset.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
Quote:
From what I understand, DD is the most straightforward trial of the bunch - as long as everyone is level shifted it's one where you can practically go on autopilot (just as long as you remember to kill the lifegiving essences).
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
ITs really not too bad till you get to MoM and DD, but if the next generation of incarnate uses new something/ currency/ merits/ components.
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Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
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We are already starting to see the LRSF problem rear its ugly head again in itrails.
Cor/def/Brute/Tank wanted, everyone else go take a hike.
Control has little to no value on itrials other than Baf, which is so easy as to be meaningless.
Cor/def/brute has so much damage that blasters are meaningless. Stalkers... well they are better but still kinda weaker than brutes.
Scrappers are fine, but it seems like brutes are preffered. And MM's are pretty much right out, having swarms of pets all over the place does nothing to make a trial less confusing.
ITs really not too bad till you get to MoM and DD, but if the next generation of incarnate uses new something/ currency/ merits/ components.
We could see an entire tier locked to half the AT's of the game.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.