Itrials future problem.
By
Aura_Familia,
Posted on: 2012-03-06 14:40 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
ITs very hard to start a baf, when every time you do, the bigger teams steal all your players
I saw a baf and a lam both fail to start because of Dueling Trials.
Da/Apex/Tin are not realistic for level shifting.
Someone worked out it would take something like 6 months to t3 all your slots, running every day.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
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I did not actually want to get on the DD or the mom, I wanted to get some Baf's started but they kept failing to start.
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Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
The enemies in DD are all lvl 56 and the bosses are lvl 57. If you aren't +2 or +3 you are not going to be doing anything significant to anything in that trial, no matter what you are, no matter how good you are. This isn't players excluding other players, it's just the way the trials are set up.
It is also a brand new trial, and while it is already obnoxiously easy, it's nice to have a stronger group until the trial gets to "farm status". There are plenty of options for progressing your unshifted toons to +3 without leeching on the trial with highest level enemies. Including but not limited to - lvl 50 TFs, Apex, TM, Lam, BAF, Keyes, TPN, Dark Astoria, and to a lesser extent MoM/UGT (which are better for level shifted toons also) As for asking for support only, it was probably this reason: |
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
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DD is brand new. People want to do the new content. This is the same for any issue. Give it a week or two and things will even out.|
Originally Posted by Shubbie
ITs very hard to start a baf, when every time you do, the bigger teams steal all your players
I saw a baf and a lam both fail to start because of Dueling Trials. |
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Da/Apex/Tin are not realistic for level shifting. Someone worked out it would take something like 6 months to t3 all your slots, running every day. |
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Lets analyze.... shall we|
Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
DD is brand new. People want to do the new content. This is the same for any issue. Give it a week or two and things will even out.
Do Dark Astoria when there is downtime between trials, it doesn't have to be the only way you progress. I also mentioned quite a bit more than just DA/Apex/TM. Stop being stubborn and look outside the box. |
Baf/lam/keyes were failing to start due to payer stealing
Apex/Da/Tin/SSA's not realistic
Mon/DD not allowed into because of level shifts.
Huh this sounds exactly like the situation the devs said they wanted to avoid when they were going to take away Emp's from Baf's
They actually did a good reversal of it though by giving 2 emps to harder trials, now easier trials get ignored for easy/high reward high level trial and it leaves non level shifts stuck.
This is going to be fun if people start going preem because they give up on the incarnate system because of lack of advancement.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Lets analyze.... shall we
Baf/lam/keyes were failing to start due to payer stealing Apex/Da/Tin/SSA's not realistic Mon/DD not allowed into because of level shifts. Huh this sounds exactly like the situation the devs said they wanted to avoid when they were going to take away Emp's from Baf's They actually did a good reversal of it though by giving 2 emps to harder trials, now easier trials get ignored for easy/high reward high level trial and it leaves non level shifts stuck. This is going to be fun if people start going preem because they give up on the incarnate system because of lack of advancement. |
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| Give it a week or two and things will even out. |
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Have you even stopped to think that i22 brought far more than just the DD trial? |
Originally Posted by Shubbie
Lets analyze.... shall we
Baf/lam/keyes were failing to start due to payer stealing Apex/Da/Tin/SSA's not realistic Mon/DD not allowed into because of level shifts. Huh this sounds exactly like the situation the devs said they wanted to avoid when they were going to take away Emp's from Baf's They actually did a good reversal of it though by giving 2 emps to harder trials, now easier trials get ignored for easy/high reward high level trial and it leaves non level shifts stuck. This is going to be fun if people start going preem because they give up on the incarnate system because of lack of advancement. |
Many players who could be doing iTrials are currently leveling up their new Dark (Control, Assault, Affinity) characters. Others are checking out the changes to Gravity Control and Stalkers. I have a 50+3 incarnate on Virtue, and I haven't even thought about doing iTrials with him this week, I'm too busy having fun with all the other Dark players as we level our new toons through low level Trials and TF's.
In spite of all the doom and gloom you're predicting, the sky is definitely not falling.
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You are imagining things. You're imagining totally out-of-touch explanations for what people might have been saying.|
Originally Posted by Shubbie
Was really Bad on virtue tonight.
+2 or +3 only, support only, Send tell with AT, Grabbing players from lower level trials to fill out DD, leaving unshifted out of luck. And you say IM imagining things. |
+2/+3 is totally reasonable for the DD trial. All the AVs are 54+3.
"Support only" simply means they had enough damage and meatshields already. It doesn't mean they didn't want them at all.
You really need to get over this.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
You are imagining things. You're imagining totally out-of-touch explanations for what people might have been saying.
+2/+3 is totally reasonable for the DD trial. All the AVs are 54+3. "Support only" simply means they had enough damage and meatshields already. It doesn't mean they didn't want them at all. You really need to get over this. |
You missed the part where I was talking about grabbing people from the Baf/Lam forming for the DD trials.
Had about 14 people set for a baf, getting close to going, and someone starts forming a DD on top of the BAF thats already forming and we start loosing players.
IM sorry but forming a trial on top of another one already forming and then telling the people who are +1 sorry out of luck, sorry we took most of your team, oh well too bad.
That is JUST WRONG.
I have no problem with asking for +2 or +3, but taking all the +2's and gutting another persons trial, then telling them they cant come on yours is about as bad and antisocial as it gets.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
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There isn't just 16 players on a server. If someone is forming a Trial, why would people be barred from starting another one? I would suggest joining more channels on your server to recruit from if you're struggling with finding players.|
Originally Posted by Shubbie
You missed the part where I was talking about grabbing people from the Baf/Lam forming for the DD trials.
Had about 14 people set for a baf, getting close to going, and someone starts forming a DD on top of the BAF thats already forming and we start loosing players. IM sorry but forming a trial on top of another one already forming and then telling the people who are +1 sorry out of luck, sorry we took most of your team, oh well too bad. That is JUST WRONG. I have no problem with asking for +2 or +3, but taking all the +2's and gutting another persons trial, then telling them they cant come on yours is about as bad and antisocial as it gets. |
I would admit that taking other players and then saying they're not able to do the trial is in a bit of bad taste, so that would be that person's fault for not advertising properly (i.e. "We need +2 or +3 level shifted people only please for DD")
Also, DD is new content and thus shiny. You'll have to expect people to be running it at the start of i22, and with how DD requires high level shifts and almost any mix of ATs, people will be wanting to try it out.
Ideon's Paragonwiki page
Member of Paragon/Rogue Knights
Arc: 60092 - Supa Rumble in the Park
"Keep living the dream, and never let any jerk tell you what to do."
-- High-Roller
Quit feeding it, guys. We can keep throwing logic at him, but the OP has a 100% resistance to it.
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You know what's even better than Blasters, Controllers and Dominators on BAF? People with level shifts. |
Originally Posted by ShadowMoka
Blasters are amazing for BAF, as are trollers/doms.
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Ideon's Paragonwiki page
Member of Paragon/Rogue Knights
Arc: 60092 - Supa Rumble in the Park
"Keep living the dream, and never let any jerk tell you what to do."
-- High-Roller
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You're running these with the wrong people. I have NEVER seen a trial form that would only accept certain ATs. Ever. |
Originally Posted by Shubbie
We are already starting to see the LRSF problem rear its ugly head again in itrails.
Cor/def/Brute/Tank wanted, everyone else go take a hike. Control has little to no value on itrials other than Baf, which is so easy as to be meaningless. Cor/def/brute has so much damage that blasters are meaningless. Stalkers... well they are better but still kinda weaker than brutes. Scrappers are fine, but it seems like brutes are preffered. And MM's are pretty much right out, having swarms of pets all over the place does nothing to make a trial less confusing. ITs really not too bad till you get to MoM and DD, but if the next generation of incarnate uses new something/ currency/ merits/ components. We could see an entire tier locked to half the AT's of the game. |
That kind of mentality is only propagated by the people who are stuck in the mindset of "We have to have EXACTLY this team composition or we fail before we even started."
Come to think of it, on Pinnacle, I've only seen this kind of mentality crop up in the global channels a couple times, and the people doing it were quickly laughed out of trying to form it in that channel.
Play with people who understand that you don't need a specific combination of things to succeed and you'll be fine.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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I don't disagree, but how is this an indicator of doom and gloom for certain ATs?
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
I have no problem with asking for +2 or +3, but taking all the +2's and gutting another persons trial, then telling them they cant come on yours is about as bad and antisocial as it gets.
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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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As one might expect when his initial argument got demolished, he's moved the goalposts. It's now the horror of people asking for level shifts and stripping his trials of people. |
Originally Posted by UberGuy
I don't disagree, but how is this an indicator of doom and gloom for certain ATs?
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As someone above mentioned, the days after new content debuts is not a useful indicator of any sort of regular behavior patterns. People want to try new shinies. It will return to normal soon enough, and the BAF/Lambda/Keyes farming will resume.
Too many alts to list.
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Blasters, Controllers, Doms with level shifts.|
Originally Posted by Ideon
You know what's even better than Blasters, Controllers and Dominators on BAF? People with level shifts.
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:OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Continuing off of docbuzzard's post, the hype will eventually die down. Honestly I don't see a problem with wanting someone to be level shifted for the far later trials. It's been said over and over in this thread but I'll do my specialty and repeat what everyone else does: You can't do jack to an enemy thats +7 to your level.
What they SHOULD do is make it so some trials like DD require a level shift to even queue into.
http://www.virtueverse.net/wiki/Shadow_Mokadara
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Wasnt just a seperate problem that showed up last night, needed to rant.
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
I don't disagree, but how is this an indicator of doom and gloom for certain ATs?
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Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
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That's NOT new or a problem. For trials with +enemies its 100% completely reasonable for trial leaders to ask for +leveled players.|
Originally Posted by Shubbie
Wasnt just a seperate problem that showed up last night, needed to rant.
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I see NOTHING wrong with that.
I also play on 6 different servers and have not seen the AT exclusion you claim.
I've seen more exclusion based on level shift. Which again, there is nothing wrong with that with a trial that's +7 to an ordinary 50.
Give it a week or so and folks will be back to doing bafs/lams again after the shiney wears off.
Relax.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
I had a similar experience on...Wednesday night, I think. Someone took it super personally when they were told that they'd be more/less useless on the DD trial. I likened it to them wanting to bring along a character without an alpha slot on a Tin Mage or Apex.
There are other trials non level shifted heroes can take part in. There's no need for you to rush to play the newest thing on a character that can't contribute 100%. If those trials aren't being played at the moment (and they are, on my server), give it a couple days. i22 was released a couple days ago, you can survive until the newness wears off. Or, try leading one yourself, if you must play it nao. If you're the league former, you can't exactly be denied.
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It was forming another trial on top of ours and running off with players from the trial I had already started that irked the crud out of me.|
Originally Posted by Stone Daemon
I had a similar experience on...Wednesday night, I think. Someone took it super personally when they were told that they'd be more/less useless on the DD trial. I likened it to them wanting to bring along a character without an alpha slot on a Tin Mage or Apex.
There are other trials non level shifted heroes can take part in. There's no need for you to rush to play the newest thing on a character that can't contribute 100%. If those trials aren't being played at the moment (and they are, on my server), give it a couple days. i22 was released a couple days ago, you can survive until the newness wears off. Or, try leading one yourself, if you must play it nao. If you're the league former, you can't exactly be denied. |
Not that he didnt want us.
Just taking the shifted out of a low level trial then running off leaving those players short people is just not good.
well im going Freem until this sorts out.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
Given how you can do DA while in the LFG que now for trials, I would say it is pretty reasonable. On the beta forums, there is a guy who worked it out at being about 1 level shift a week. For solo, no trial progression, that is pretty reasonable.
Now I haven't seen a single BAF or LAM form on virtue, since Issue 22 went live. I've seen DD, and MoDD. Because they are new, shiny and easy. I see the new farming rota going Lam, DD, Baf, Keyes, MoM, TPN, UG. So, play DA, get your level shifts. Do DD.
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1. Calm down.|
Originally Posted by Shubbie
It was forming another trial on top of ours and running off with players from the trial I had already started that irked the crud out of me.
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2. If a player joins your iTrial you do not own them, they're free to come or go as they please.
3. If a better offer comes along for level-shifted players, in this case the shiny new DD Trial, they have every right to abandon your old familiar iTrial and join the new one.
4. If you have to blame anyone at least blame the people who left instead of whoever is running the other iTrial.
5. (See #1)
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That was assuming you got the correct component drop level at every opportunity and that you were farming at a high level also to supplement thread if I remember correctly.|
Originally Posted by Trilby
Given how you can do DA while in the LFG que now for trials, I would say it is pretty reasonable. On the beta forums, there is a guy who worked it out at being about 1 level shift a week. For solo, no trial progression, that is pretty reasonable.
Now I haven't seen a single BAF or LAM form on virtue, since Issue 22 went live. I've seen DD, and MoDD. Because they are new, shiny and easy. I see the new farming rota going Lam, DD, Baf, Keyes, MoM, TPN, UG. So, play DA, get your level shifts. Do DD. |
I also remember another post saying it would take over 1000 hours to t4 everything from DA.
So who's to be believed.
As I said, Im fed up im going to free till either the players or the devs figure this out, but I can tell you one thing.
From having played other mmo's if players cut off the supply of new players entering a system, devs will step in to take action.
Da is very disapointing as far as rewards and progress go, the missions are awesome though a bit too tough for new incarnate squishies, and very few people will team for them, anyone who wants to team goes on trials.
Da needs about double the reward level it currently has, and there needs to be some encouragement to take newer players along on trials.
And some leaders will take nonshifts on DD or Mom, but taking players off a team then telling that team they cant come along is just so horrible, I cant even find words for it.
as I said Ill just go free till this sorts out.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
Raiding is still new in City of Heroes.
A lot of raiders come from other games.
When I play W 0 W, I had to raid numerous hours a week, play the character my guild wanted and after certain people got gear I could attempt to bring the character I desired.
For now you have two groups of people. Individuals who bring their already +3 and convert awards and mail them to alts. Then use threads to burn xp, and create pieces to fill tiers.
Then you have individuals who want to bring their fresh 50 and complain that people have requirements. This is a game where people pay to play, so they should have some say. But if you are 50 and the trial is easier with 50+3 you are being carried in some peoples eyes. For some reason people do not want a challenge, but to burn through content.
I know that a lot of people says thing like, well blasters do great damage, and controllers are EP1k. But opinions do not override facts. I have an ice/kinetics corrupter maxed out and she can turn the tide in any fight. Not many builds, AT's can say that or contribute to a min/max team. Why would anyone turn down a sonic/radiation corrupter over lets say a super reflex/war mace tanker.
I personally play support characters so others can play whatever they like. I like to play in general. Now I have a character with a 8 billion influence build that dinged 50 yesterday and I would challenge her damage ability against any plus 3, but that is not the point.
The goal is to have fun. But what we see here is a failure of the player and not the game. I play mainly with friends and have a reputation of being a good player. If you constantly have to join PUG raids you have to take what you can get, or form the team yourself.
+2 or +3 only, support only, Send tell with AT, Grabbing players from lower level trials to fill out DD, leaving unshifted out of luck.
And you say IM imagining things.
It is also a brand new trial, and while it is already obnoxiously easy, it's nice to have a stronger group until the trial gets to "farm status".
There are plenty of options for progressing your unshifted toons to +3 without leeching on the trial with highest level enemies. Including but not limited to - lvl 50 TFs, Apex, TM, Lam, BAF, Keyes, TPN, Dark Astoria, and to a lesser extent MoM/UGT (which are better for level shifted toons also)
As for asking for support only, it was probably this reason: