Quote:
How much are the powers penalized, and is that actually the case? The tier 1 and 2 blasts don't seem penalized, looking CoD really quick. Ball Lightning is a little weaker than some, so you could maybe argue that it pays for the end drain it does there. Thunderous Blast is a "weaker" crashing nuke, so that fits the theme people are stating in the thread, though I haven't had issues dropping mobs with it when I have used it (beyond Nova and other crashing nukes). It has the same issues other crashing nukes have, yes, but I don't know that it's really beyond the pale.|
Originally Posted by Fireheart
That's actually his point, Pilgrim. He's playing his Electric as a Blaster, not a de-buffer and staying at range. So, no jumping into the middle of the fight to deploy SC or PS. His Blaster powers are 'penalized' for the End-drain, which is only significant if he changes his playstyle to match and takes his 'glass canon' into the furball.
Even then, in order to be 'effective', he would have to go in First and accept the Alpha... Granted, he could work closely with a trusted Tanker, but I've never seen a TF (that I wasn't duoing) where that was practical - too much chaos. Better to be a hover-blaster and accept the handicap. Be Well! Fireheart |
I dunno, I guess I don't see THAT much merit to the "it's weaker due to end drain" argument. I would say its biggest issue is ST damage, but there are things the set does to compensate for it, too. If snipes are changed like Arcana kind of suggested in the archetype forum (make it a decent ST power in combat like the recent change to Stalker AS), that could be fixed, too. Of course, we don't know if that'll happen.
In the ITF example cited above, I haven't ever felt like I wasn't adding much on the ITFs I've been on. My E^3 helps with big mobs, and he's also able to put the hurt on all the EBs and AVs in there. It's not just perception, either, which is always a variable thing... you're not doing hugely worse than any other blast set would be (again, looking at the numbers above).
So if you want to argue for this, I guess just make a good case for which powers need help, why, and justify it well if you want the change. And do it while keeping the end drain schtick viable. Even if some don't use it (and it is useful in common PVE fights, unlike some have said here in this thread), it is a fun characteristic that people use, and use to their benefit.
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Yes but is that unfair ... his play style doesn't match the power set he chose?
On the other hand (and perhaps in his corner of the debate) Short Circuit is the only power out of 9 powers in the set that requires being in melee range, but much of the secondary effect of end drain, if one wishes to leverage it, pretty much requires the use of Short Circuit to be effective (or choosing a specific secondary which again largely requires melee to leverage end drain). I can't recall any secondary effect that is so dependent on 1 power in the set to be effectively leveraged. Is this dependency on SC do to the 1) short durations of the end drain effects, 2) the small? amounts or 3) their random nature? Or all 3?
Edit: Or perhaps I should say his play style doesn't match if he wishes to leverage the secondary effect, in this case end drain.
Quote:
The answer to that is if any set doesn't match your playstyle, don't play it, or adapt to it. Design of any kind, if it's going to have any character worthy of recognition (and use), must have a focus, must have a style. Not every AT or powerset is going to appeal to everyone. I love Tanks, but I can't stand Stone. I love Blasters, but I can't stand Ice. You can play well enough with both sets, but I just don't care for their style. That's not a slam on them, that's just the way it is.|
Originally Posted by Doomguide
Yes but is that unfair ... his play style doesn't match the power set he chose?
On the other hand (and perhaps in his corner of the debate) Short Circuit is the only power out of 9 powers in the set that requires being in melee range, but much of the secondary effect of end drain, if one wishes to leverage it, pretty much requires the use of Short Circuit to be effective (or choosing a specific secondary which again largely requires melee to leverage end drain). I can't recall any secondary effect that is so dependent on 1 power in the set to be effectively leveraged. Is this dependency on SC do to the 1) short durations of the end drain effects, 2) the small? amounts or 3) their random nature? Or all 3? Edit: Or perhaps I should say his play style doesn't match if he wishes to leverage the secondary effect, in this case end drain. |
Electric does require a little more focus on that end drain ability to make it work, but that is a characteristic of the set, keep in mind (and really, you should be paying attention to how to leverage a set's abilities). You do need more than just Short Circuit going to end drain well, and plenty of sets have defining powers. Archery is more than just Rain of Arrows, but you sure remember that set and it's an important one that really makes the set work. You could say the same for many sets out there.
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I agree Grey Pilgrim just not sure as I reread my post that I made that clear. Can't expect to get full benefit from a set when you don't adapt your play style to fit the set. The difference here I think is unlike Archery, Fire, or Sonic or any of the rest is you do not have to adopt play style to gain the benefit of the secondary effect of the set (beyond adapting to the set overall). Archery you get higher inherent accuracy, fire you get more damage (DoT), Sonic you get -resist. I can fire Shriek and Scream and stack their -resist for more resist and it has an benefit in killing faster. I can use Power Bolt and Power Blast and see less incoming damage from the kb effects even though they are somewhat random. I can fire off Charged Bolts and Lightning Bolt do I really kill anything faster (or do it safer) from stacking the -end and -recovery (neither of which occur 100% of the time they both random like the kb of energy blast). To really get the benefit and leverage the -end and -recovery one really wants to (needs to?) use Short Circuit and I do have to adapt my play to use SC specifically. I don't have to particularly adapt to use a specific power of the other sets to make the rest of them have a beneficial effect. To extract benefits from the secondary effect of the set I don't need to use Blaze to make best use of Flares and Fire Blast or use Explosive Arrow to see beneficial effects from Snap Shot and Aimed Shot. Having not played them yet (or been a while since I did) not as sure if Beam Rifle or Dual Pistols have some elements similar to this.
This would all be solved if volcanic sentinel was controllable
End drain is mitigation; it's just very weak mitigation.
By the time that the boss gets to the point that his endurance is drained; you may already be dead. Other mitigation types, let's say KB, would mean that he is spending all his time getting back up, giving you enough time to kill him. I personally find KB one of the best mitigation for blasters; but that's my playstyle, YMMV.
With end drain though? It's really is a hard sell for survivability for a blaster that is really dependent on mitigation versus hard enemies.
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While I'm not convinced that the amount of Endurance Drain is on balance with other Blaster's secondary effects, you do have to look at the entire powerset.
How many Blaster Primaries have such a nice hold? And Short Circuit shouldn't be overlooked, as noted before.
Still, an Elec/Elec is a different story. One can drain an entire group and/or hold any enemy (Boss or below) with two attacks.
Then they can dish out the damage virtually unharmed.
Again, I'm not making claims that Electric Blast is 100% on par with others - Blast Primaries, but it is quite different - beyond the secondary effect of Endurance Drain - in some favorable ways.
Plus, how many of the Electric Blast powers have the "sleep" effect? I honestly can't remember and I don't have Mids handy right now.
@Zethustra
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Quote:
None of them. All Elec Blast powers have End Drain. All of them except Ball Lightning, Short Circuit, Voltaic Sentinel, and Thunderous Blast also have a 30% chance of giving back half the End cost of the power.
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Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
Plus, how many of the Electric Blast powers have the "sleep" effect? I honestly can't remember and I don't have Mids handy right now.
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We'll always have Paragon.
Quote:
Ah, is it only the secondary Electric Manipulation powers that have the "sleep"?|
Originally Posted by NeverDark
None of them. All Elec Blast powers have End Drain. All of them except Ball Lightning, Short Circuit, Voltaic Sentinel, and Thunderous Blast also have a 30% chance of giving back half the End cost of the power.
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I was thinking that Ball Lightning had it...
EDIT:
Yeah, it's just Charged Brawl and Havoc Punch... My bad!
@Zethustra
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and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
I think the biggest disadvantage with electric based mitigation is the fact that any mitigation that *might* happen (assuming the mechanics of endurance recovery don't all converge to punch you in the face) isn't going to happen until the *end* portion of the battle. Speaking from personal experience, AT's utilizing electric blast who don't have *other* mitigation to wait that long wind up kind of dead and if you *did* have enough mitigation to wait that long it isn't likely you would suddenly need the mitigation offered from electricity to continue to survive. The sum of all these things makes endurance draining mitigation particularly difficult to utilize, if not outright useless a majority of the time.
If I was going to re-design electric based attacks in a perfect world with the full powers of hindsight I would have given each attack a small chance to apply a short duration stun. Something along the lines of the mitigation that is achieved from Energy Blast, although perhaps a little weaker considering the inherit disadvantages associated with knockback. Not only would this make more sense, to me, thematically, but it would also be a more reliable source of mitigation that was available throughout the entire duration of the battle, instead of only at the end.
Quote:
Mea Culpa. I had not run the Blaster much, since I leveled him fast. Created late Saturday March 3, and 50'd him Saturday March 10. Would have been faster, but I alted when i22 dropped for a few nights. So, except for the TFs I did (one short of TF Commander) I have not much experience on him. And the hectic nature of PUG TFs did not help with the subleties of End Drain. |
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
That's technically not possible unless you don't fight bosses at all. Many bosses will, before they can kill you, actually drain their own end low enough to begin to impede their own ability to use their attacks at maximum speed. By definition, any endurance drain at all will speed that process up and generate significant damage mitigation. However, it seems most people only consider endurance drain to be of any benefit if it stops the critter from attacking at all, and it usually won't do that.
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To get to the point, I did the Alpha unlock Ouro Arc. So, I almost called for help with Trapdoor. I mean, Blaster, right? My very Pimped Elec/Elec Scrapper struggled with this guy. I have the Blaster about 2/3 as I/O'd and, well, he's a Blaster. So, i stealthed to Trapdoor. (I'm squishy not crazy-I use invisibility and phase shift as major tactical weapons) I line up, build up, and let loose. Of course I did not Take him down in the Alpha Strike. But by the time he was half dead he had NO end. No End equals no bifurcations. He was cake, easiest I have ever killed the guy. I just hovered out at about 50 and blasted him into submission.
So, as usual Arcanaville, you are correct. I am sorry, and I should really pause even longer before replying on the boards before I post incorrect info.
And as usual, I have something else to add. End drain is a very unreliable and (mostly) useless secondary effect. In that 95% of the time ( I want to type 99% but would have to prove that) has absolutely no effect on the combat. And has been pointed out, this is due to how I play the set. I play the set as a "Ranged Blaster", not how the set was designed, as a PBAoE Blapper using Elec/Elec. It has a good ranged Ball attack, and a Ranged Nuke, and no redraw/weapon. The Nuke crashes, but I am Elec/Nrg, so with a blue inspiration and Conserve Power I am blasting again in seconds - at Range. At 50 I can double Nuke and be blasting again in seconds to finish off whatever survived that onslaught. So, yes, self penalized for not playing a Blapper Elec/Elec. Now at 50+3 and the Alpha is Tier 4 Spiritual (to get that short bitter attack chain up fast lol) and the End Drain is all but useless. Then again, most secondary effects besides -res, -tohit, and fire are useless. But sets with those are even harder to build for ranged than Electric. It is a problem of how small a corner do you want to paint yourself into with Ranged Blasters building. Which i am actually cool with, EXCEPT the Devs call it "Ranged" so that verbage will never cease to irritate me. If i am building it sideways (Ranged when you advertise Melee), thats my problem. But if I am building it "Ranged" DO NOT penalize me for it when you say it is "Ranged."
They say Ranged, I play it Ranged, and you can expect me to loudly and repeatedly complain that they designed it so I am penalized for attempting to play a Ranged Blaster.
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Actually, my main is Energy/Energy, and for years I focused on the /Energy and played it as a blapper (after first having played from launch mostly ranged), but as of I19 my build is very range-focused and I believe overall it plays a lot better as a ranged build. I do not believe I'm being penalized for being ranged.|
Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
Then again, most secondary effects besides -res, -tohit, and fire are useless. But sets with those are even harder to build for ranged than Electric. It is a problem of how small a corner do you want to paint yourself into with Ranged Blasters building. Which i am actually cool with, EXCEPT the Devs call it "Ranged" so that verbage will never cease to irritate me. If i am building it sideways (Ranged when you advertise Melee), thats my problem. But if I am building it "Ranged" DO NOT penalize me for it when you say it is "Ranged."
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I actually think more blasters die because they aggressively go into melee range to use those tempting melee and PBAoE attacks without the experience to leverage them properly.
I can say that I accidentally started Graham Eason in flashback this weekend still set to x5, and got reminded how nasty green ink men are when there's more than two of them around at a time. Until I switched to hover blasting, whereupon they went from efficient blaster killers to whack-a-moles.
Range has problems, but that doesn't mean melee is the solution.
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I love Energy/Energy Blasting. I have a parked 50 with a great name (GM Approved "Zerg" - inspiration being the physics unit Erg, and not kidding). Sigh, lets get real, teams hate KB. And I have not gotten good enough to control it. I mean, the Ball is a explosion of KB, how do you even control that? But I LOVE the animations, the powers, the whole thing. Although, as usual, I take no melee attacks beyond the 1st required. If only we could talk to Null and turn off KB I would seriously not complain (I Promise) about no secondary effect.
Quote:
By being above them.|
Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
I love Energy/Energy Blasting. I have a parked 50 with a great name (GM Approved "Zerg" - inspiration being the physics unit Erg, and not kidding). Sigh, lets get real, teams hate KB. And I have not gotten good enough to control it. I mean, the Ball is a explosion of KB, how do you even control that?
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Alternatively, back in the old days I would sometimes switch out of blapper mode and do this thing where I would superspeed right around to the back of the group and then open fire, so the knock would push everything *towards* the group rather than away.
In any case, there aren't very many maps in which scatter is important, and yet you can't be hovering above the spawns.
Plus, if not for knockback, you wouldn't have things like this happening. This is the worlds most tenacious Tsoo. He won't let go, and he also refuses to be knocked off. That's the best kung fu grip I've ever seen. I had to let him live, because how can you kill that guy.
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That is wild. If I hadnt seen the video I would not have believed it. But, I guess I'm crueler than you, cause I would have settled into a good spot and relaxedly sniped him out of existence, just to see the effect. (or maybe you're crueler for letting him hang there for the rest of eternity)
anyways, thx for the tips on Energy, I may spend a week playtesting the Energy/Energy head to head with the Electric/Energy and see how it feels.
Quote:
If I were redesigning Electric Blast, I'd have used one of my favorite spell effects in other games/fiction. From Atlantica Online, to Magic the Gathering to even WoW, I'd give electric blast the 'Mana Burn' effect.|
Originally Posted by Warkupo
If I was going to re-design electric based attacks in a perfect world with the full powers of hindsight I would have given each attack a small chance to apply a short duration stun. Something along the lines of the mitigation that is achieved from Energy Blast, although perhaps a little weaker considering the inherit disadvantages associated with knockback. Not only would this make more sense, to me, thematically, but it would also be a more reliable source of mitigation that was available throughout the entire duration of the battle, instead of only at the end.
|
Basically, any foe with END above, like 75% (not much thought in that number...60% seems too low a gap and 80% wouldn't give you much opportunity) would either take extra damage, have their HP debuffed by a percent of their current END or be debuffed (probably -regen). Then you have the option of overloading their own energy to fight against them through 'over charge' or completely shut them down by draining all their endurance.
But I like the thought of burning off their high endurance bar for a chunk of extra damage...
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
I love Energy/Energy Blasting. I have a parked 50 with a great name (GM Approved "Zerg" - inspiration being the physics unit Erg, and not kidding). Sigh, lets get real, teams hate KB. And I have not gotten good enough to control it. I mean, the Ball is a explosion of KB, how do you even control that? But I LOVE the animations, the powers, the whole thing. Although, as usual, I take no melee attacks beyond the 1st required. If only we could talk to Null and turn off KB I would seriously not complain (I Promise) about no secondary effect.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Plus, if not for knockback, you wouldn't have things like this happening. This is the worlds most tenacious Tsoo. He won't let go, and he also refuses to be knocked off. That's the best kung fu grip I've ever seen. I had to let him live, because how can you kill that guy.
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Quote:
I still believe the best way to adjust endurance drain effects is to add -MaxEnd to powers that drain end. -MaxEnd is in some ways identical to -recovery in that it will reduce the amount of endurance recovered per unit time. But unlike -recovery it will also reduce the size of the recovery ticks, and that's the key to reducing the number of attack options a critter has when drained but not fully recovery debuffed.|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
If I were redesigning Electric Blast, I'd have used one of my favorite spell effects in other games/fiction. From Atlantica Online, to Magic the Gathering to even WoW, I'd give electric blast the 'Mana Burn' effect.
Basically, any foe with END above, like 75% (not much thought in that number...60% seems too low a gap and 80% wouldn't give you much opportunity) would either take extra damage, have their HP debuffed by a percent of their current END or be debuffed (probably -regen). Then you have the option of overloading their own energy to fight against them through 'over charge' or completely shut them down by draining all their endurance. But I like the thought of burning off their high endurance bar for a chunk of extra damage... |
It *also* makes the critter burn through their own endurance faster when using their own attacks.
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Quote:
Haven't read the rest of the posts in this thread, and I won't debate validity|
Originally Posted by Trick
There was something I noticed a while back, and something that I was reminded of today, therefore I decided to make a post about it. Electric Blast has less damage than other Blaster powersets? Why? The Endurance Drain.
The Endurance Drain is a problem because on the enemies it would matter on, it does absolutely nothing. They can still attack perfectly fine, making it so that Electric Blasters forfeit their damage for nothing. This doesn't mean it's not good. It works well on minions, lieutenants, and alright on bosses. Once you get to Elite Bosses and up, it loses it's effectiveness. So, do you think I have a valid point, and that the Electric Blast damage reduction is unfair for what the Endurance Drain is supposed to make up for? |
one way or another, much.
That said, I just finished running all the DA arcs with my E3 Blaster last night,
(died just once - total), and I can say that the End Drain was not only an important
factor, it was absolutely critical to his success and survival.
There are EB's in every one of those arcs, and in a couple cases, two (together).
In nearly every case (there was one exception, but I don't recall which atm),
I was able to fully drain them and keep them drained while whittling away at
their HP.
Without the Drain, he'd have been pulped into a squishy mess - more times,
than I can count.
Now, if you don't want to make *use* of the drain as a tactic, then, you may
be at a disadvantage. On the other hand, I'm not so sure my Fire/Nrg blaster
would have fared as well - the soft control was extemely significant.
Regards,
4
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Quote:
Romulus Augustus and his army of Knives of Vengeance, Cyclopes and Minotaurs didn't think Electric Blast sucked when I hit them Saturday night.|
Originally Posted by _Ail_
I deleted my lvl 50 elec/elec blaster, and my elec/kin corruptor. I have not yet deleted my kin/elec defender, but it is probably nostalgia more than anything else.
Elec blast sucks. It is too bad because it is very nice thematically. Just admit that the cards are against you (which is too bad!) and roll a elec/cold troller or something similar, and be happy to have end drain and not suck. |
Just because one person doesn't like a powerset in no way equates to it being broken, or sucking, or in need of revamping. Electric Blast is different that the other Blaster ranged damage sets. That's just the way it is. Whether a particular person likes it or not is irrelevant. You either work with what it has or you choose another powerset.
I played with Electric Blast slotted for damage for probably two or three years, and it worked just fine. Since then I added a single end mod IO in Ball Lightning and Short Circuit and adjusted my play to focus on dropping both health and end, and I like the results. Damage is still excellent, and the added ability to control the battle in multiple aspects is outstanding. I still think it's an excellent powerset, but I do admit to some inherent bias in that regard.
Quote:
We still haven't convinced the devs how -maxHP works, though, have we?
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I still believe the best way to adjust endurance drain effects is to add -MaxEnd to powers that drain end. -MaxEnd is in some ways identical to -recovery in that it will reduce the amount of endurance recovered per unit time. But unlike -recovery it will also reduce the size of the recovery ticks, and that's the key to reducing the number of attack options a critter has when drained but not fully recovery debuffed.
It *also* makes the critter burn through their own endurance faster when using their own attacks. |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Softcapping an Invuln is fantastic. Softcapping a Willpower is amazing. Softcapping SR is kissing your sister.
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Quote:
By make "use" I assume you mean take the PBaoE drain in the primary and Melee attacks to stack drain in the secondaries? If so, you are quite correct sir I do not want to make "use" of the tactic.|
Originally Posted by FourSpeed
Now, if you don't want to make *use* of the drain as a tactic, then, you may
be at a disadvantage. On the other hand, I'm not so sure my Fire/Nrg blaster would have fared as well - the soft control was extemely significant. |
I am building a Ranged character. I chose the Blaster as a Ranged character based on the verbage in the character design screen. I chose the Ranged option for combat, and saw this: "The Blaster is an offensive juggernaut. This hero can deal a ton of damage from a distance..."
Now, hitting someone who is a couple feet from you is technically "Ranged" I suppose. But only insomuch as you have not plastered yourself up against them like a octopus opening a mason jar. But when I play other video games, or tabletop roleplaying games, or talk to anyone with an IQ that allows for cognizant communication it is not considered "Ranged." The bare minimum for me to consider myself at range (your experience may vary) is the uncomfortably close 20-30ft. I would be okay with a solid 60-80 ft. Due to the attacks available to me I find myself operating in 30-50 quite often, and am not overly happy with that. my preference would be 100-150. No, i am not kidding. Snipe should be at least a football field, and that is seriously not worthy of being called a Sniper attack. Give a military Sniper a weapon that is effective at 150 ft and tell him it's his new Sniper Rifle. I dare you. One of the serious things they should look at in Blasters is redefining all Sniper attacks to a "Heavy attack'. Using Bitter Ice Blast as the model, only changing range on all of them to 100. Or just leave them all at 150 for a decent ranged attack (oh, the horror, you let them have a ranged attack *faints). And get rid of the four thousand second rooting animation that makes the power a complete waste of a pick besides being used as a mule. Seriously, who uses these things? They design the entire Archtype as a Blapper, call it "ranged" and throw in a rooted animation long range attack? Was there a plan in there somewhere, besides "make it sorta not good at everything no matter how you build it"
I have an E3 Blaster that I have been playing pretty much for at least 5 years and I have found him to be one of the more versatile blasters I own.
I believe a huge part of the issue with Electric Blast as a set stems from what secondary you chose. Electric obviously goes well being able to use Short Circuit and Power Sink. Energy goes well being able to leverage Power Boost to help with End Drain. I have not tried it but I believe that Mental Manipulation would probably also work well with Drain Psyche.
I have no defense built into him at all and I havent had much issue running into a +2 mob of 6-8 and draining their end to zero and keeping it there... and that was before the new incarnate powers...
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
Quote:
I haven't heard them acknowledge that particular error yet.
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Originally Posted by Void_Huntress
We still haven't convinced the devs how -maxHP works, though, have we?
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I respect you Airhammer, and many of the posters on the boards. I honestly appreciate being able to get feedback from you all and post my opinions. However, I cannot stop myself from just grabbing this snippet to illustrate my Don Quixote attack on the "It Ain't Ranged" Windmill. Hope you do not mind.
Quote:
Because nothing says "Ranged" like that sentence. |
Originally Posted by Airhammer
I have no defense built into him at all and I havent had much issue running into a +2 mob of 6-8 and ...
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You seriously make a good point though. Even as I abused as I have by stripping it down to STs and Ball/Nuke Elec is a decent set. The animations are cool, and I mostly enjoy it. What I do not like about it is that it is a Blapper set. Not Elec's fault. Not Blasters Archtypes fault.
I have seen many arguments and points being made about what they will not allow a Blaster to do (holds, mez prot, more damage, and on and on) and good reasons why they should not, and arguments why they should. What I have not seen is anyone explain what design/business decision would not allow them to be "Ranged" when they specifically say on their own character design screen they are "Ranged". They give new players a choice of a "Ranged" character, with all sorts of important, set balancing powers that are melee range and PBAoEs and wonder why they keep dying and falling behind Brutes at leveling. Gee, i wonder. Lets see, could it have anything to do with the fact that you told the Player they were getting a Ranged character and when they chose their powers they were mostly better suited to Blapping? Hmmm. I wonder.....
Sorry if you knew that already, but it wasn't quite clear if you were using more powers or not. Still, using Short Circuit and Power Sink let my E^3 Blaster drain everyone in a regular mob in a few seconds from the level 35 on (and he was able to do it fairly well with just Short Circuit and his other powers). He even end drained a War Walker EB he was soloing on an Apex.
Even then, in order to be 'effective', he would have to go in First and accept the Alpha... Granted, he could work closely with a trusted Tanker, but I've never seen a TF (that I wasn't duoing) where that was practical - too much chaos. Better to be a hover-blaster and accept the handicap.
Be Well!
Fireheart