Kronos vs Quantumshock
People can say what they want about a tanker; however, my experience fighting this Titan of Titans proved, at least to me, a Tanker is not irrelevant, nor is he useless.
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So you stood in front of something and didn't die.
So how is that any different than a Stalker in Hide standing in front of it and using /e batsmash? Or a Defender sitting in Personal Force Field?
"Look guys, I'm not faceplanting! I'm not inflicting any real damage either and have zero chance of defeating it, but I'm not faceplanting!"
Look, you're proud of what you accomplished, and I can't fault you for that. I don't have anything against you personally. But anyone who defends the current state of Tankers is just allowing them continue getting screwed over, just as they were screwed out of Fury and thrown under the bus by the devs to be low damage decoys.
In other words, if you're not part of the solution, you're part of them problem.
The fact of the matter is, I've tanked Kronos without buff or heal support many times on both Tankers AND Brutes. The fact that Brutes can do that at all and still get to have great damage while Tankers are kneecapped is a travesty.
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Don't rain on his parade, Johnny. Save your tanker loathing for other threads.
Grats, Khonsu! It looks like you had a great time.
50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
Congrats, Khonsu! Well done!
(and yeah, don't listen to Johnny...someone must have pissed in his cornflakes this morning)
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
Don't rain on his parade, Johnny. Save your tanker loathing for other threads.
Grats, Khonsu! It looks like you had a great time. |
Thanks Aett. Don't worry, I don't. I just consider the source.
Current active characters: Dragon Maiden (50+3 Brute SS/WP/PM), Black Widow Maiden (50+1 Night Widow), Catayclasmic Ariel (50 lvl Defender - Kin/DP), Quantumshock (50 lvl Elect/Energy/Energy), American's Defender (38 lvl Tanker - SD/Mace), Spider-Maiden (15 lvl Corruptor - RB/PD) & Siren Shrike (15 lvl Defender - Sonic/Sonic). My entire stable.
Grats!
Pretty poor form there JB.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
First, nice job, you survived Kronos.
Couple nitpicks: You are electric armor. You should be immune to end drain. If you needed power sink, it was because you burn more end than you recover. My DA tank did not have this issue with Kronos.
I don't believe you tanked Kronos. At least not particularly well. The mark of a good tank is how well his team survives. You have his aggro. Spin him, kite him, do what you have to do to keep the team safe.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
I don't believe you tanked Kronos. At least not particularly well. The mark of a good tank is how well his team survives. You have his aggro. Spin him, kite him, do what you have to do to keep the team safe. |
i do agree with your other point though, elec armor is basically immune to end drain and ive looked at the kronos powers before and none of them drain end

Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Many congrats. Don't forget to thank your support char. probably not dieing had a lot to do with farsight/chrono shift/temporal selection and risking dieing by coming close to heal you.
Couple nitpicks: You are electric armor. You should be immune to end drain. If you needed power sink, it was because you burn more end than you recover. My DA tank did not have this issue with Kronos.
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I tried screen printing my numbers; however, it did not turn out. I wanted to show you and everyone else what my numbers are so that I won't be called a liar again. However, I cannot. My END usage is 1.51/per sec and my recovery is 3.51/per sec. I do not burn through endurance as you assume I might. Additionally, I believe after I finally slot either Agility Core Paragon or Radial paragon or Cardiac Core Paragon, endurance will not be an issue for me.
I don't believe you tanked Kronos. At least not particularly well. The mark of a good tank is how well his team survives. You have his aggro. Spin him, kite him, do what you have to do to keep the team safe.
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What you forget is all of his attacks are AoE save that of his Plasma Assault. Case in point:

Anyone that passes through these flames will be burned.

Kronos Titans shake the very Earth itself with a super Foot Stomp, attacking everything in a nearby area.

Kronos Titans can launch a pack of 16 Gas Swarm Missiles

Kronos Titans can launch a pack of 16 Incendiary Swarm Missiles

Titan plasma burns are hard to heal. The burns have halted your Regeneration rate.

Anyone that passes through this gas will take damage from the fumes.

Kronos Titans can launch a pack of 16 Incendiary Swarm Missiles
Tindoor as you see stayed pretty close to me and the others to heal. However, I kept instructing him to stay back at his range limit of effect. Sadly, he did not because we were surrounding Kronos so he had to stay close inorder to effectively heal the group.
Foot Stomp dropped more team members than any other attack. So, how then, do you or anyone else expect me to protect them from that? Tell them all to back off, including melee fighters and attack from afar? Sorry, but AoE makes no predetermination on who generates the most aggro. Those who were facing Kronos near me fell the most because all of his Targeted AoEs were focused on me.
I hate it when a teammate falls while I'm tanking. However, I cannot, no let me rephrase this, no one can protect everyone 100% of the time, especially when fighting a GM. An enemy like Lord Recluse? That's a different story. Tyrant? Nope better not let him face someone else. These can be kept focusing on that tank(or whomever is generating the aggro).
i think he did a great job, its possible the mm kept getting too close to the aoe in which case no matter how good the tank is the aoe is still gonna 1 shot the mm
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When I started apologizing for him falling, he told me to shut up that it was his fault and blamed his style of play.
i do agree with your other point though, elec armor is basically immune to end drain and ive looked at the kronos powers before and none of them drain end
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I'm pretty good of knowing who is going to drain endurance during a fight. Freakshows, Clockworks, and Carnies come to mind. However, I have recently discovered having endurance issues when facing Knives of Artemis. Then right after facing them, I'm up against Malta with no END problems. Now, explain that one to me. Their powers do not indicate that they drain END. The only thing I can surmise is when you are hit with -Regeneration, it affects your recovery too. However, there is nothing stating that is the case that I've been able to find.
I disagree. AoEs standard ones, not Targeted, affect the area around the enemy. Targeted AoEs, I agree. Which Kronos kept me in his gunsights for all his Targeted AoEs.
while true he still cant control other poeple getting too close to him for one reason or another (in the pictures it looked like the mm was going in close to pop heals)
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This is why I wish I could have had a video of this battle. Then everyone would see exactly what happened as I saw them. Then I would not be defending my actions in this manner.
Lastly, the group thanked me for bringing them aboard to participate and they thanked me for tanking. Especially the stalker who, by his own words, 'Oops, I booboo'd.' then laughed about it after he face planted.
Current active characters: Dragon Maiden (50+3 Brute SS/WP/PM), Black Widow Maiden (50+1 Night Widow), Catayclasmic Ariel (50 lvl Defender - Kin/DP), Quantumshock (50 lvl Elect/Energy/Energy), American's Defender (38 lvl Tanker - SD/Mace), Spider-Maiden (15 lvl Corruptor - RB/PD) & Siren Shrike (15 lvl Defender - Sonic/Sonic). My entire stable.
This is why I wish I could have had a video of this battle. Then everyone would see exactly what happened as I saw them. Then I would not be defending my actions in this manner.
Lastly, the group thanked me for bringing them aboard to participate and they thanked me for tanking. Especially the stalker who, by his own words, 'Oops, I booboo'd.' then laughed about it after he face planted. |
Once again grats.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
Look, I'm just giving my opinion, as I have tanked Kronos, and I have kept squishies safe.
Justify it however you want. AoE can't hit your team if you stay away from them and keep enemy attention. Did you try to move away from your team? Attempt communicating that they should not be near you?
Every attack except the footstomp is targetted AoE. If the melee teammates are dying to that, your job becomes kiting. Footstomp will not be used if Kronos does not get close.
I know I wrote a guide on this stuff. At the end of the day, cannot save people from themselves, but you need to try.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
But anyone who defends the current state of Tankers is just allowing them continue getting screwed over, just as they were screwed out of Fury and thrown under the bus by the devs to be low damage decoys.
In other words, if you're not part of the solution, you're part of them problem. |

Proud to be part of the problem.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
Look, I'm just giving my opinion, as I have tanked Kronos, and I have kept squishies safe.
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Justify it however you want. AoE can't hit your team if you stay away from them and keep enemy attention. Did you try to move away from your team? Attempt communicating that they should not be near you?
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Every attack except the footstomp is targetted AoE. If the melee teammates are dying to that, your job becomes kiting. Footstomp will not be used if Kronos does not get close.
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Anyone that passes through these flames will be burned.

Kronos Titans shake the very Earth itself with a super Foot Stomp, attacking everything in a nearby area.

Kronos Titans can launch a pack of 16 Gas Swarm Missiles

Kronos Titans can launch a pack of 16 Incendiary Swarm Missiles

Titan plasma burns are hard to heal. The burns have halted your Regeneration rate.

Anyone that passes through this gas will take damage from the fumes.

Kronos Titans can launch a pack of 16 Incendiary Swarm Missiles
This information comes directly from Paragon Wiki. If this is incorrect, then it needs updating to reflect the correct information. If not, what I said stands.
Trust me, I do what I can to keep teammates safe. I take it as a personal affront when someone bites it. When that happens, I apologize and try to do better. When I do apologize to them, they blame themselves for being over zealous. I've done that myself with my more fragile characters.
Current active characters: Dragon Maiden (50+3 Brute SS/WP/PM), Black Widow Maiden (50+1 Night Widow), Catayclasmic Ariel (50 lvl Defender - Kin/DP), Quantumshock (50 lvl Elect/Energy/Energy), American's Defender (38 lvl Tanker - SD/Mace), Spider-Maiden (15 lvl Corruptor - RB/PD) & Siren Shrike (15 lvl Defender - Sonic/Sonic). My entire stable.
Only Footstomp is PBAoE, though. The others are either RANGED AoE (meaning targeted on someone) or TARGETED AoE, meaning placed below their target. Just FYI.
And none of those attacks has a -End component to it.
I still think you did a fantastic job, but you do mention some things that aren't backed up.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus

I quoted the above as an experienced player usually in the aftermath of tanking something might seek this intel. I would personally find out the size of the aoes, also the ranges, and do it ingame. I used to view it as, if I am taunting and alone, only STs will be used, if someone joins me, AoEs get used. If there is an aoe rad involved I part from them further than the aoe rad, so then we are back to STs again. If the rest of the team is behind the AV then cones don't get used. If my backs to the team then cones get used. AoEs on the team therefore don't need to happen, cones can be redirected or dont need to happen. The closer I am the more attacks can be used, therefore the greater chance of the best attack chain getting used. Get to a Rikti Pylon early enough before others, taunt from above and all that heal spamming you see below you is usually for nothing. Have enough range and apply enough -range then attacks could stop altogether. If Kronos Titan is compelled to hit me but can't do it with Footstomp then Footstomp providing there is adequate taunt control doesn't happen. I know of a way to still hit them in melee and still stop the Footstomp. One doesn't have to kite and stay kited, the team might be able to sustain some damage, before the tank kites, allows the team to full health, then proceeds once again in providing melee damage effectively tanking responsibly yet not making things too boring or make some defender or controller wonder why they didn't play something else.
Some AVs are reasonably predictable after practise. Powers happen every so often somewhat recharge related, and have happened seemingly in some order. I could predict when Soulstorm was about to happen then make Soulstorm impossible to happen. Dechs is experienced enough to probably Tank the inner circle for 6 Blappers and my Trick Archer, that's playing any type of Tank and know how there would be no defeats. I say my TA because she is a beaut unlike some but there was a time when he wouldn't of been able to so, others are where he was, others will always be where he was, we have to allow for that otherwise people will be too afraid to post.
Not saying the OP is new, newer than some with certain experiences, which is not a crime, hell I am newbie too but I'd to make a point towards the older players if I may. So let's say someone new, wanted to post about something that was new to them, older players could take a look at intent and simply be happy with that. Regardless of what the feat was, it might be new and exciting to them. No need to rain on it. I say intent, because if they were bragging about being the only survivor, team dead around them, cheering them on then they may well of missed the point.
In the beginning this game was magical, it was more exciting, less predictable, no one knew anything, it was great. On the earliest of attempts mistakes are made unknowingly, sometimes the mistakes make the game for the team mates as they enjoy it all the more. Once the game is known, the magic goes and you with your knowledge might find yourselves facepalming, getting annoyed by what looks like the stupidity of other players when in fact all they are doing is still entering the magical game. Quite frankly part of me wishes I was newer. Once you understand the magic trick, the magic is gone. You know what was probable, see a mess and feel let down by someone, in the early days "Oblivious", ignorance was bliss. The best tank in the world could be a boring fart to team with quite frankly, it's probably best to make everyone useful and logged in on their specific toons for a reason.
Some tanking mistakes can therefore be deliberate calculated risks that make the game a bit more enjoyable for others.
If anyone with any enthusiasm should wish to share their experiences, people could return with constructive criticism and other people might learn from the constructive criticism. I think its good.
What matters KnightofKhonsu is that you're well on your way as a Tanker.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Only Footstomp is PBAoE, though. The others are either RANGED AoE (meaning targeted on someone) or TARGETED AoE, meaning placed below their target. Just FYI.
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When someone says, 'Targeted AoE,' I immediately think of targeting a specific area. I believe this is where the miscommunications is happening. Dechs is referring to one thing using verbage that means something else to me. lol Hm...probably best to say, 'AoE on a target.'
Then that better explains why Tindoor and the other suffered so much because they were close to me, save for the stalker and brute. They were out of the frontal arc.
I know. I saw that last night after looking Kronos up again. However, you normally don't lose 25% of your endurance when using a attack power, especially with the IO sets I have. This normally corresponded with being hit by Kronos' Plasma Blast. I wish I could remember the female brute's name, she first mentioned it after we were in the heat of battle.
Thanks. I know. I wish I had video recorded it that way you could see the effect on my endurance. Even when I did not attack, I lost endurance after the Plasma Blast. I know it says -Regeneration; however, I wonder if this attack somehow effects recovery because the negative effect on regeneration in making it stop. Will that cause recovery to some how faulter? This is the only time I drastically lost endurance. This happened to me too when hit with the poison darts that cause -regen by Knives of Artemis. There has to be some kind of connection between the two. Has no one ever took notice of this before? Or just simply brushed it off as over working the character? I'd really like to know.
Current active characters: Dragon Maiden (50+3 Brute SS/WP/PM), Black Widow Maiden (50+1 Night Widow), Catayclasmic Ariel (50 lvl Defender - Kin/DP), Quantumshock (50 lvl Elect/Energy/Energy), American's Defender (38 lvl Tanker - SD/Mace), Spider-Maiden (15 lvl Corruptor - RB/PD) & Siren Shrike (15 lvl Defender - Sonic/Sonic). My entire stable.
Okay, so you are saying that even though it does not specifically say 'Targeted AoE' their affects are? Meaning, that a specific target and the AoE affect is around the target. Targeted AoE, to me means, targeting a specific area.
When someone says, 'Targeted AoE,' I immediately think of targeting a specific area. I believe this is where the miscommunications is happening. Dechs is referring to one thing using verbage that means something else to me. lol Hm...probably best to say, 'AoE on a target.' Then that better explains why Tindoor and the other suffered so much because they were close to me, save for the stalker and brute. They were out of the frontal arc. |
That's not always practical to actually do in combat, though. And you won the fight anyway, so the point is rather academic.
My personal theory is that your time buddy was boosting your recharge with Temporal Selection and therefore you were attacking more than usual. Combine that with the periodic crash of hasten and you'll see your end bar suffering.
50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
If anyone with any enthusiasm should wish to share their experiences, people could return with constructive criticism and other people might learn from the constructive criticism. I think its good.
What matters KnightofKhonsu is that you're well on your way as a Tanker. |
However, I am not a person who gets set in doing something the same way always (read: set in his ways). As a student of Edward Deming, I'm always looking to improve the process in how I do things including myself. I've learned something things here from this thread that I'll most assurdedly use in the future.
Enthusiasm? Heck yes. I'm always enthusiastic when I'm gaming, not matter the genre. As a long-time Traveller, D&D, and BattleTech player, I never get tired of playing. There's always something new and exciting going on. At my age, enthusiasm is keeping me young even though my kids call me an old fart! lol
That's not always practical to actually do in combat, though. And you won the fight anyway, so the point is rather academic.
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I thought of that too; however, during our missions he's constantly hitting me with it before I jump into a couple of mobs and I haven't had any crash problems. Plus, I don't have Hasten. Build up, but I don't remember if there's a crash effect with it. Still it could be the combination of recharging at 135% normal when hit hits me with Temporal power. Still, I have this nagging feeling that there might be some tie in with -regen and affecting recovery. I've experienced this with Knives of Artemis and some of the Hercules and Zeus's before facing Kronos.
Current active characters: Dragon Maiden (50+3 Brute SS/WP/PM), Black Widow Maiden (50+1 Night Widow), Catayclasmic Ariel (50 lvl Defender - Kin/DP), Quantumshock (50 lvl Elect/Energy/Energy), American's Defender (38 lvl Tanker - SD/Mace), Spider-Maiden (15 lvl Corruptor - RB/PD) & Siren Shrike (15 lvl Defender - Sonic/Sonic). My entire stable.
Don't let the OCD nitpicking min-maxers get you down. It's impossible to please them anyway!
As long as you and your team mates all had fun, that's all that matters. And it looks like you all did. Gratz!
Really, how?
So you stood in front of something and didn't die. So how is that any different than a Stalker in Hide standing in front of it and using /e batsmash? Or a Defender sitting in Personal Force Field? "Look guys, I'm not faceplanting! I'm not inflicting any real damage either and have zero chance of defeating it, but I'm not faceplanting!" Look, you're proud of what you accomplished, and I can't fault you for that. I don't have anything against you personally. But anyone who defends the current state of Tankers is just allowing them continue getting screwed over, just as they were screwed out of Fury and thrown under the bus by the devs to be low damage decoys. In other words, if you're not part of the solution, you're part of them problem. The fact of the matter is, I've tanked Kronos without buff or heal support many times on both Tankers AND Brutes. The fact that Brutes can do that at all and still get to have great damage while Tankers are kneecapped is a travesty. . |
Cool story. It's always fun to complete a challenge you know most would have given up on.
Last night, well for the past 3 days, my friend and I are working through Crimson's story arc. I have played through this with most of my level 50 characters so I am familiar with it and know what to expect. For the past two days, I have expected an ambush of monstrous proportions. Read attack by Kronos. Last night that came to fruition.





Quantumshock, my Electric Armor / Energy Melee tanker, and Tindoor, Robot / Time Manipulation Master Mind, came out of the last mission and there he was. My first impulse; RUN! I experienced fighting him on two occasions after completing the Wildfire mission, both times he face planted my characters (Knight of Khonsu (Level 50 Scrapper) & Dragon Maiden (Level 50 Brute). Tindoor and I were on Skype together and I said, I am taking him on, while Tindoor said, "OMFG your nuts!" Maybe. I looked at the clock, 9:30 PM. I attacked him.
Now, as I have mentioned before, Quantumshock's design is up on the design thread. Keep in mind; he is not an Incarnate though I have unlocked my alpha slot. The only changes I have made to him since posting his design was swap out Mako's (2 sets) for Kinetic (2 sets) in Barrage & Energy Punch, while slotting 'Absolute Amazement' in Whirling Hands.
This picture shows Quantum dead center with Tindoor on the right. That was at the 15-minute mark. Tindoor's bots died as fast as he could bring them back. He himself ate ground 3 times before this picture. At one point, we had Kronos' health down a quarter before Tindoor and his bots face planted.
This picture is at the 25-minute mark, Quantum is still going strong. Not once did I have to neither pop a health inspiration nor use my Energize during this time-period. I did, however, have to use my Power Sink due to Kronos' ability to drain endurance, not often mind you, but enough for me to start considering retreating.
Tindoor and I both agreed that we were not going to take him down. He wanted to withdraw, I told him to go to the Tram station and T-port me there so I did not have to do a fighting withdrawal. However, looking at this massive combatant, I just could not quit. I wanted to defeat him. I told Tindoor to broadcast for team members and passed him the star. This beast was going down.
This picture is at the 45-minute mark. We now have 2 brutes, a stalker, and a defender at this point. Up to this point, the stalker, and 1 of the brutes face planted, while the second brute was forced to back off to recover, including Tindoor. I do wish I had recorded this action on video. This would show our team's health bars and all the action as it played out, thus proving what I saying here.
Tindoor noticed how much nastier Kronos was getting. I said that was because we have 5 more level 50 team members. At this point, I am using Power Sink more frequently and had to use Energize twice.
In this picture, Kronos is about to go do. You can see where the team members are. The defender is back on the left, the stalker is back under the right arm of Kronos, one of the brutes is under the stomping foot, and the other brute is behind Kronos to my right. Tindoor is directly above me. Moreover, if you look carefully, you can see his last surviving bot to the far right. At this point, it is 10:30 PM. I have been fighting Kronos for an hour. Just to give you the perspective of how long I had been fighting him, both my accolade powers, Eye of Magnus and Geas of the Kind Ones, fully recharged twice before this monster died.
Finally, 5 minutes after the above picture, Kronos crashes to the ground! Woohoo, Team Quantumshock did it. Everyone rejoiced. The badge was a great reward.
I am proud of the fact that my tanker fought this giant monster and did not face plant one time. While my teammates did at last one time, some more than the others. Of the two brutes, only one (the one fighting on my right) did not, though her health was beat down near that point.
People can say what they want about a tanker; however, my experience fighting this Titan of Titans proved, at least to me, a Tanker is not irrelevant, nor is he useless. Furthermore, I kept this beastÂ’s attention and all the hate and discontent he could dish out.
Current active characters: Dragon Maiden (50+3 Brute SS/WP/PM), Black Widow Maiden (50+1 Night Widow), Catayclasmic Ariel (50 lvl Defender - Kin/DP), Quantumshock (50 lvl Elect/Energy/Energy), American's Defender (38 lvl Tanker - SD/Mace), Spider-Maiden (15 lvl Corruptor - RB/PD) & Siren Shrike (15 lvl Defender - Sonic/Sonic). My entire stable.