Natural Legends (all other origins need not apply)

Only naturals, really. I don't think I can think of a 'Legendary Mutant' of any kind, 'Legendary Science' I can't wrap my head around, 'Legendary Technology' is practically an oxymoron and 'Legendary Magic' is just fantastical fiction made to seem bigger than life (but I suppose if you want to speak up about any of the above, I can't stop you )

I'm mainly speaking of 'Natural Legends', the ones that actually do exist even if their stories are retold and exaggerated more and more. Billy the Kid Legendary Gunslinger, Miyamoto Musashi Legendary Ronin, Robin Hood Legendary Archer (there may be some evidence his story is based on an actual person), Yip Man and Bruce Lee Legendary fighters, Sun Tzu Legendary Strategist, so on and so forth.

I'm semi-curious how you'd see those legends in relation to CoX. Does anyone base their character off of one? Or compare their skill to such a legend? And if one were to pull one of them to present day Paragon/RI, how would you see their skill compared to their new surroundings? Would they be chumps and barely stand out, adapt to their new environment and rise above it or just be so bad-A they'd seem beyond a normal Mastermind, Scrapper, Blaster, etc?

It's a question I begin to ask as I retread the backstories of some of my characters or the origins of their teachings. Just how powerful, skilled and 'legendary' are these individuals? Considering that the Romans from Cimerora can clean the clocks of some of my 40-50 characters who may use magic, tech or skills honed from the future and these guys are just using swords, shields, spears and some rudimentary explosives.

And I'd also be curious about how they're protrayed outside of CoX in other comics too, if you want to go that deep

My main character: Akuma Ryu is a time displaced Samurai. He was actually a few hundred years too late to personally know Musashi, but his parents named him both after an ancestor with the same name as well as Musashi's birth name (Takezo).
Though personally he favored the teachings of Yagyu Munenori's Secrets of the Family Sword/Way of the Living Sword. (This makes for an odd anachronism since Secrets of the Family Sword was not available for reading outside of the Yagyu family until the Meiji era)
Going further back, his clan was severely reduced in size and power due to their opposition of Tokugawa.
His family, the Himura, had been elevated to nobility centuries before from being commoners, the same thing happened to Tokugawa when he was taken under the wing of Oda Nobunaga. But when Tokugawa assumed full power after Nobunaga's death, he barred the caste system so peasants could never rise to nobility, an act the Himura clan considered treachery against the people.
Unfortunately, the Himura ultimately were defeated and by the time my main character was born, he, his mother, father, and sister were all that were left of an noble family.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.

Billy the Kid used guns, I'm gonna consider him tech.

I was never particularly fond of the "origins" as presented in Coh, as there is too much room for crossover to say that any character fits neatly into only one origin. The purpose of the origins leaves too much open to subjective interpretation for that. Where is the line really drawn between Science and Technology? (For me, I think it's whether the product/power in question can be mass produced without oversight by someone who has advanced specialized knowledge of the discovery). Does Someone who uses a "Laser Katana" qualify as Natural because of their training, Technology because it's a readily purchasable device in their home parsec, Science because it's not understandable or replicatable technology in our parsec, or Magic because they have covered their body in occult tattoos and chant stuff between attacks to focus their mind, body, and spirit?

Anyway, Here's some folks I consider "Legends" of the real world, even if they might not always be "Natural"...

I'll get Godwin's Law out of the way and start with Adolf Hitler... no matter what you think of his morality, he was certainly a legendary Leadership Mastermind. He assembled an army that may have conquered the entire world if things had gone somewhat differently. He was almost certainly of "Natural" bent, though there are enough occult legends flowing in his wake that one could through him in the Magic camp if they wanted. It certainly makes for good stories.

One of my personal favorites, having grown up in Colorado Springs, would be Nikola Tesla, though I think he fits more neatly into the Science camp than almost any other historical figure of note.

Again, blurring the line between Natural and Science and Technology (though I think he may fit most closely into Science if one must be chosen) is Dr Stanislaw Burzynski ( http://www.burzynskiclinic.com/ ) This guy has cured cancer (not in every patient, but in enough that it's amazing he's not a household name).

George Lucas is another that comes easily to mind, along with a couple others in his field, like Michael Bay, James Cameron, or Joss Whedon. Whether or not you like the product these men and others have pushed through the traditional Hollywood sludge, these guys have made EPIC pieces of entertainment, and in cases like George, even redefining what was expected of the industry (for better or worse).

We've got some Legendary folks among the United State's historical elected leadership, Davy Crockett and Theodore Roosevelt. Agree or disagree with their politics, they were real life adventurers who went out and really did some impressive things, that most of those among us who read these forums will never come close to.

Professional Wrestling, for all that it's based more on Entertainment than Sport, has certainly created some legends. Most would seem natural, though some might fall into the "Science" of steroids or the "Technology" of tricky camera angles, but just to prove there's some Legendary Mutants out there worthy of our attention, I'm going to point out the late, great, Andre the Giant. This man was a true giant among men, able to flip cars with his bare hands and out drink entire sports teams. More impressive though was that for all his physical might, he was a kind and loving man, who truly enjoyed spreading happiness to his fans. Even when he played a villain, he was a legend of truly heroic proportion.

In the field of musical entertainment, it's tough sometimes to tell who is really legendary, and who just ended up in the right place at the right time, but then, isn't that kind of luck something that defines legends of almost any background? A few differences in travel itineraries and Marcus Cole and Stephen Richter may never even have heard of the Well of the Furies, much less drank its waters. Now look back at some of the more notable crooners in our world, men like Elvis Presley, Paul McCartney, John Lennon, Ted Nugent, Alice Cooper, Tupac Shakur, Danny Elfman, and others of their ilk. They may not be gunslinger rock stars (ok, at least one of them is), but these are people that have had legends spring up around their actions, whether heroic, selfless, sleazy, or just plain weird...

I think I'll finish out for now with another Icon of Entertainment. Many may not agree with every decision he's made, some probably even have some personal hard feelings about him. But one way or the other Jack Emmert was a driving force in the MMO industry, pushing more than one game into existence, each of which have shown more innovation than the vast majority of more popular games, and at least one of which still holds my attention to this day... Whether he was a force of Leadership that AOE buffed the people in his companies to great accomplishments or a Mastermind who rose to power on the toils of his followers, his name is a legendary part of MMO history.

Still, you have to go the other way, too. Is anyone 'tech' at all? I've never read or seen a story with someone who was 100% tech. Tony Stark for example INVENTED his suit and won his battles just as much with quick thinking and understanding of what was going on. Note that the other guy with military backing in the better armed and armored suit is his side kick.

I wasn't really getting at anything, except a bit of sleep deprivation.

The crab spider is natural because the crab spider starts out as an Arachnos Soldier. She gets a gun and she gets tactical training.

At level 24, she gets the option to go Bane or Crab. She also gets to keep her gun and tactical training if she likes.

Both Crab and Bane are more technology based than Soldier.

Similarly, Widows only start out with claws, darts, and tactical training, but Night Widows and Fortunatas both get psionic powers, which are more traditionally found in mutants in City of Heroes.

Why are Fortunatas and Crab Spiders natural? Because the technology doesn't exist in game to have them change from Natural to a different origin.

I helped derail the thread, so I might as well contribute something on-topic...

In my observation, Abraham Lincoln is often held in legendary regard: the man whose will re-forged a broken nation. He's so legendary that fiction sometimes attributes him superhuman traits totally unrelated to his historical self (including, but not isolated to, that vampire hunter movie). Would he live up to this legend if he appeared in modern America (or modern Paragon)? Almost certainly not. I don't mean that as any insult to him, his legend is simply larger than life, nobody could live up to it.

Gorō Nyūdō Masamune is most certainly a Legendary Tech figure. His swordsmithing (key word: smithing) is a thing of incomparable quality, all of which would have been impossible without his forge and skill. It was not his skill at swordplay that made him legendary, but certainly his tools.

Archimedes is probably the best example of a Legendary Techno-master. Using mirrors to burn down a fleet? Without his tools, Archimedes wouldn't have done squat.

Kallinikos, inventor of Greek fire. Technological Legend.



Edit: easy way to tell the difference. Could The Kid do what he did with any gun he picked up? Probably. If you knocked his guns out of his hands and then he picked up a random pistol he'd probably kill you pretty quick, still.

Could Masamune do what he (supposedly) did with a regular katana? Nope. But, Musashi almost certainly could. I turn you to the Hozoin spear, plague of samurai. Any Hozoin soldier is tech-based, going simply off the fact that it was invented to counter something and they could do not replicate the feat with, say, a regular pike (the very technique of a Hozoin spear is unique).


To answer the thread: no. Natural heroes don't really do it for me.

I've got an Andrew Jackson character that I play this way. Does he count?

I see the origins like this:

Mutant: Powers come from naturally occurring quirks in DNA from evolution (Jean Grey, Wolverine, etc)

Science: An experiment or accident has granted abilities of a superhuman nature to the individual (fantastic four, the hulk, spiderman, captain america)

Magic: The character is a spellcaster, magically attuned being or someone whose powers are derived solely from a magical artifact (Dr. Strange, Classic Vampire/Werewolf type characters, The Juggernaut)

Tech: Powers come from highly technical devices that require little innate ability on the user's part or possibly the being is itself an advanced piece of technology such as an artificially intelligent android or an organic being with inorganic parts such as a cyborg. (Iron Man, Steel, Vision, Data from TNG, The Bionic 6)

Natural: Natural character have innate strengths that are sometimes bolstered with other things from the tech, science and magic origins. Aliens can also qualify as Natural characters because any innate abilities they have are considered "natural" for their species. (Hawkeye, The Punisher, Batman, Superman... yes Superman is NATURAL... for a Kryptonian)

The key thing to realize about natural origin heroes is that if you strip away any external devices or talismans they still have innate gifts that are still extraordinary. Take away batman's utility belt and gadgets and he's still an incredibly intelligent man who has worked hard to get his body into tip top fighting shape, learned unarmed combat and has honed agility and marksmanship. Take away Hawkeye's Bow and fancy Arrows and he's still an incredible marksman. Sure he needs a bow to capitalize on that but that doesn't mean all his extraordinary ability comes from his bow. Aliens as I said have innate abilities perfectly normal for their race.

At least that's how I perceive it.

Also consider there is some mix and match between origins. Wolverine is a mutant but his claws for example while technically part of him are enhanced via science by being laced with adamantium. The Scarlet Witch and Magik are mutants but also use magic as well.